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 Post subject: What Do We Do Best?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:38 pm 
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Laurie Kerr
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Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:56 am
Posts: 135
Hello everyone, just my second post and I'm dipping my toe into the whole create a thread pond. How ballsy of me.

This isn't intended to deteriorate into a series of ill-conceived one liners or puns in response, this is intended to make us all a little bit more depressed and sad as we reach for the barbicide to end it al- no, no, I joke. It's simply a deconstruction of just what's what at our beloved club.

I've read a great deal of this forum - and others - over the past few years. I've seen those who argue for and against administrations, coaches, players et al display equal passion for the Club and a faith or concern that it eventually will or wont be gotten right.

I think we can all agree we've had enough of the mediocrity that pervades nearly every crevasse of the Carlton Football Club.

The oft called for internal or external review needs to happen, no doubt, if only to answer the question: 'What do we do better than anyone else?'

Football Dept
Well... certainly not lately. Although I feel confident the wheel might be slowly turning. We got rid of Ratten - who wasn't up to the top job. He had the best years of the list and managed a heartening semi-final appearance before falling off the cliff - and have employed an experienced coach.

Revisionism in the media needs to end re: overstating our list when the decision to dump Ratten was made. We'd built and built encouragingly until Essendon* unveiled the first of many concerning cracks that sunny day at the MCG in early 2012. We'd started the season brilliantly, with impressive wins - no less so than a 10-goal demolition of last season's runner-up - and everyone with even a passing interest in football thought 'here we go.' Further shockers followed (matches against Adelaide, Hawthorn, Port Adelaide, North Melbourne and the Gold Coast stick out as just as bad as this past Sunday) so they made the call.

No matter what, I'm confident Mick will have us heading in the right direction by the conclusion of his tenure. He has a long road to hoe, but if he has the rebuild, or the early stages of a rebuild, in him I'm happy for him to oversee the job. It seems to have begun in many areas of this department, with upheaval well underway. Further changes will likely come, too.

Discussion always points to the alternatives when talking such matters, but even if Hinkley had been considered or Ratten retained we'd still have the same issues we do now. Changing again doesn't help matters, it simply creates more questions.

Verdict: changes were made and continue to be made, a definitive outcome on their success or otherwise is at least 18 months away. We're not contending for a flag, so at the parameters with which to judge Mick now become 'are we better placed now than we were at the beginning of 2012'. We'll see. If we aren't, we move on.

Recruitment
Mistakes have obviously been made. A lack of patience or trust in the draft has left us light on in the quality 20-23 year old bracket. But, as the media have only just noticed after talking about it for a couple of weeks, strides and efforts have been made in reshaping this department. The man who was at the helm for many, many years no longer is, with the new guy's recent efforts already cast in a noticeably different mould.

Essentially, the old regime misjudged the trajectory of the game. Not as badly as Melbourne did, but badly enough to leave our playing list incompatible with the contemporary style that football is played in. We drafted undersized, introverts whilst others were stocking up on the big boys with a bit of personality.

We certainly haven't been doing this better than anyone else, but a change has been made and early results are more positive than they have been for many, many years.

Verdict: getting better - if not efforts have been made to improve.

Communications
I think in this day and age of all encompassing social media the Club is better than it once was. We have facebook, twitter, YouTube and instagram accounts - we even appear to have a presence on Google+ and Pintrest, whatever those are. Bases covered, then.

But what of the content being provided, is it as good as it can be? It's not difficult, I don't think, communicating with passionate fans. The language, both visual and written/spoken is pretty straightforward to formulate.

I'm not really of a vintage who regularly engages in this media, but nothing coming out of it that the kids show me seems to be groundbreaking.

Recent efforts in PR have been a bit panicky and premature, too. Sticks' scripted message to the fans? Unnecessary. It's one bad performance. Admittedly, it was a real shocker against a hated rival, but it was just one bad game. Given the negative saturation that was bound to be in the media yesterday, didn't we just give them every opportunity to keep bringing it up and putting us through the ringer? Kernahan, Jamison and Murphy all had official media engagements, whether they be through the Club or otherwise. Whilst the inevitable doorstop in the car park provided more potential quotes.

And what of the message itself? We're ashamed? We promise to do better? Uh huh, the same old message spouted by everyone, everywhere after a poor performance. Empty and meaningless nonsense. Silence would have been just as effective.

What about what we do in this department is cutting edge or innovative?

Verdict: Could be better. Needs to get better if we're to hook new or retain jaded young fans.

Fans and Support
Utterly deplorable. Bandwagons, fair weathered - too many who only want to support the Club on their terms. I respect people have a right to choose who and what gets their money, and that they shouldn't financially support an entity or product that they don't feel 'deserves' their cash. After so many years of being so poor, or promising not to be, I get that some might be disillusioned.

But talk about a sense of entitlement. We've been like this for 12 years, minus a few in the middle where we threatened to be ok. How about the Bulldogs or Saints? They can't even sell history.

No one is happy about where we are, or where we've been for the last few years, especially not the Club itself.

Verdict: it's pretty ordinary, to be fair.

Membership
To be honest, the current state of club membership league wide seems to be one big lie. Each time I see the numbers I wonder 'who's lying the most.' Every year there's a new summit or peak to conquer and every year Clubs go out and unthinkably find the extra x thousand members they need to reach it. This simply isn't sustainable, I don't think. Nor does it actually benefit anyone. If we say we've got x number of members, but we really don't have that many, where's the benefit? It's not financial. Its a fake number on a tally board that sits in a spreadsheet next to other fake numbers.

I can only speak for myself, but my impression of the Membership department at Carlton mirrors many others throughout the club: if success happens it happens in spite of the planning, if it doesn't we just raise our hands and ponder aloud how and why it couldn't have.

That being said, how do our memberships stack up in terms of value (from the access, to customer service, to the showbag)? What's our retention or engagement strategy like? What, apart from ore-paying to go to games, is the incentive for joining up? Being a member of something isn't totally about what you get in return, its about pledging to be a part of something you're passionate about and supporting that entity. But your commitment does need to be rewarded in some way, especially if its continued.

What initiatives do the club employee to give even the vaguest impression they're grateful for our support?

[b]Final word: there isn't one thing we do better than any other club. At the moment. Of course we want to improve, but are the people capable of delivering such improvement in the right places?

It should be a matter of professional pride, not just a pride in the jumper and logo employees of the club represent, that we strive to be the best. Everything that's bad about us on field finds its roots in an underwhelming back of house.

_________________
Whatever happened to this club
I wish I understood
We used to be so strong
We used to be so good


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 Post subject: Re: What Do We Do Best?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:01 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:52 pm
Posts: 2044
Drafting rookies and Irishmen


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 Post subject: Re: What Do We Do Best?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:09 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 5:15 pm
Posts: 7354
We overrate our list better than anyone

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“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard Feynman


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 Post subject: Re: What Do We Do Best?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:10 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:55 pm
Posts: 12528
Location: Brisbane
Grow beards.

_________________
THEY LIKE TO SEND UP!!!!!!!!

Until each team plays each other the same number of times, the AFL, as a fair dinkum competition, cannot be taken seriously.

He (Mr Swann) said the honour and pride associated with the club's traditional navy blue jumper was priceless.


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 Post subject: Re: What Do We Do Best?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:29 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
Manchego Cheese wrote:
Hello everyone, just my second post and I'm dipping my toe into the whole create a thread pond. How ballsy of me.

This isn't intended to deteriorate into a series of ill-conceived one liners or puns in response, this is intended to make us all a little bit more depressed and sad as we reach for the barbicide to end it al- no, no, I joke. It's simply a deconstruction of just what's what at our beloved club.

I've read a great deal of this forum - and others - over the past few years. I've seen those who argue for and against administrations, coaches, players et al display equal passion for the Club and a faith or concern that it eventually will or wont be gotten right.

I think we can all agree we've had enough of the mediocrity that pervades nearly every crevasse of the Carlton Football Club.

The oft called for internal or external review needs to happen, no doubt, if only to answer the question: 'What do we do better than anyone else?'

Football Dept
Well... certainly not lately. Although I feel confident the wheel might be slowly turning. We got rid of Ratten - who wasn't up to the top job. He had the best years of the list and managed a heartening semi-final appearance before falling off the cliff - and have employed an experienced coach.

Revisionism in the media needs to end re: overstating our list when the decision to dump Ratten was made. We'd built and built encouragingly until Essendon** unveiled the first of many concerning cracks that sunny day at the MCG in early 2012. We'd started the season brilliantly, with impressive wins - no less so than a 10-goal demolition of last season's runner-up - and everyone with even a passing interest in football thought 'here we go.' Further shockers followed (matches against Adelaide, Hawthorn, Port Adelaide, North Melbourne and the Gold Coast stick out as just as bad as this past Sunday) so they made the call.

No matter what, I'm confident Mick will have us heading in the right direction by the conclusion of his tenure. He has a long road to hoe, but if he has the rebuild, or the early stages of a rebuild, in him I'm happy for him to oversee the job. It seems to have begun in many areas of this department, with upheaval well underway. Further changes will likely come, too.

Discussion always points to the alternatives when talking such matters, but even if Hinkley had been considered or Ratten retained we'd still have the same issues we do now. Changing again doesn't help matters, it simply creates more questions.

Verdict: changes were made and continue to be made, a definitive outcome on their success or otherwise is at least 18 months away. We're not contending for a flag, so at the parameters with which to judge Mick now become 'are we better placed now than we were at the beginning of 2012'. We'll see. If we aren't, we move on.

Recruitment
Mistakes have obviously been made. A lack of patience or trust in the draft has left us light on in the quality 20-23 year old bracket. But, as the media have only just noticed after talking about it for a couple of weeks, strides and efforts have been made in reshaping this department. The man who was at the helm for many, many years no longer is, with the new guy's recent efforts already cast in a noticeably different mould.

Essentially, the old regime misjudged the trajectory of the game. Not as badly as Melbourne did, but badly enough to leave our playing list incompatible with the contemporary style that football is played in. We drafted undersized, introverts whilst others were stocking up on the big boys with a bit of personality.

We certainly haven't been doing this better than anyone else, but a change has been made and early results are more positive than they have been for many, many years.

Verdict: getting better - if not efforts have been made to improve.

Communications
I think in this day and age of all encompassing social media the Club is better than it once was. We have facebook, twitter, YouTube and instagram accounts - we even appear to have a presence on Google+ and Pintrest, whatever those are. Bases covered, then.

But what of the content being provided, is it as good as it can be? It's not difficult, I don't think, communicating with passionate fans. The language, both visual and written/spoken is pretty straightforward to formulate.

I'm not really of a vintage who regularly engages in this media, but nothing coming out of it that the kids show me seems to be groundbreaking.

Recent efforts in PR have been a bit panicky and premature, too. Sticks' scripted message to the fans? Unnecessary. It's one bad performance. Admittedly, it was a real shocker against a hated rival, but it was just one bad game. Given the negative saturation that was bound to be in the media yesterday, didn't we just give them every opportunity to keep bringing it up and putting us through the ringer? Kernahan, Jamison and Murphy all had official media engagements, whether they be through the Club or otherwise. Whilst the inevitable doorstop in the car park provided more potential quotes.

And what of the message itself? We're ashamed? We promise to do better? Uh huh, the same old message spouted by everyone, everywhere after a poor performance. Empty and meaningless nonsense. Silence would have been just as effective.

What about what we do in this department is cutting edge or innovative?

Verdict: Could be better. Needs to get better if we're to hook new or retain jaded young fans.

Fans and Support
Utterly deplorable. Bandwagons, fair weathered - too many who only want to support the Club on their terms. I respect people have a right to choose who and what gets their money, and that they shouldn't financially support an entity or product that they don't feel 'deserves' their cash. After so many years of being so poor, or promising not to be, I get that some might be disillusioned.

But talk about a sense of entitlement. We've been like this for 12 years, minus a few in the middle where we threatened to be ok. How about the Bulldogs or Saints? They can't even sell history.

No one is happy about where we are, or where we've been for the last few years, especially not the Club itself.

Verdict: it's pretty ordinary, to be fair.

Membership
To be honest, the current state of club membership league wide seems to be one big lie. Each time I see the numbers I wonder 'who's lying the most.' Every year there's a new summit or peak to conquer and every year Clubs go out and unthinkably find the extra x thousand members they need to reach it. This simply isn't sustainable, I don't think. Nor does it actually benefit anyone. If we say we've got x number of members, but we really don't have that many, where's the benefit? It's not financial. Its a fake number on a tally board that sits in a spreadsheet next to other fake numbers.

I can only speak for myself, but my impression of the Membership department at Carlton mirrors many others throughout the club: if success happens it happens in spite of the planning, if it doesn't we just raise our hands and ponder aloud how and why it couldn't have.

That being said, how do our memberships stack up in terms of value (from the access, to customer service, to the showbag)? What's our retention or engagement strategy like? What, apart from ore-paying to go to games, is the incentive for joining up? Being a member of something isn't totally about what you get in return, its about pledging to be a part of something you're passionate about and supporting that entity. But your commitment does need to be rewarded in some way, especially if its continued.

What initiatives do the club employee to give even the vaguest impression they're grateful for our support?

[b]Final word: there isn't one thing we do better than any other club. At the moment. Of course we want to improve, but are the people capable of delivering such improvement in the right places?

It should be a matter of professional pride, not just a pride in the jumper and logo employees of the club represent, that we strive to be the best. Everything that's bad about us on field finds its roots in an underwhelming back of house.



the same people who brought us here cant be expected to have the answers

if they had the answers and they brought us here shame on them.

Theyre out of their depth

But should we support them?
At a time of having so many options.. why support these people?
Why not do to them what they have been doing to us.. alienating us.. > alienating them
the club will continue on... i have no doubt.. but why give them oxygen by supporting people who are not only supporting us.. rank and file supporters.. but also thyre grinding the club into the ground.
i have made a decision not to spend one dollar on the club. meaning i go to the mcc members if i go to the game.. i buy my stuff at rebel sports or target and i make sure not one red dollar goes to the club.

why? because they dont give a @#$%&! about us.. they only want our money.... so i dont give to them what they yearn for the most from me... i give them nothing.... !

Its my way of dealing with them .. dealing with us.

i dont think im on my own either... we have 45 thousand members.. the rest are pretend members.
which means there is an army of me.. the club doesnt even realise it.
i shouldnt say club.. club is a drone .. it doesnt make decisions ..it doesnt think.. it doesnt act...
i mean the people running the club... they dont even know whats going on.
sure . they can kill a recruiter or a coach or the ceo... but ultimately theyre the jibs... they dont put their head over the ball.. they shirk responsibility.... i never believed that this club would be choca block full of cowards sycophants and their collaborators.. Oligarchs using this once great club as their plaything... fatcats and egotistical psychopaths. ill never forgive them for what they have done to this club.

once were warriors.. now were shy dainty little things...

no pride.. no steel.. no soul... just nothingness that leaves a void and sorr0w in so many lives.
we have lost a generation of young supporters... kids that dont give a @#$%&! about our tales of the past..
they have moved on to other things.

so much has been taken away from us in fifteen years.. their biggest heist is they stole all hope!!!

hope was the thing that got us through the last decade...we might be shit but were coming back

well.. were not coming back.. this club will never be what it was ... destined to be another melbourne.. or richmond... buried in the pages of ancient history....ill always remember i walked with giants. guys like dom and the doormat and jezza.
kids coming through will never experience what i did....

this club is now in the junk yard

they just coudnt help themselves.. they had to run it down by trying to control it.

there is no light in our immediate future.. there is only darkness.

why?

because were so far behind were never going to bridge that gap

they loved us so much they had to maim us

i dont blame the players.. in fact i feel sorry for them....
they have to represent a club that had so many champions.. these kids will never live up to those expectations... we never set down the environment for them to do so.
so many cut corners and short cuts from a lazy bunch of egotistical bastards
you know what these people thought? they truly thought that they would be on the board when we won our next flag.. they would be immortalised by history.. its true!.. thatas what they thought
most would never do it on the footy field... but they could rub shoulders with juddy and deliver the club a flag ,

sticks told someone if he didnt deliver the flag in 2012 he would leave.. that they would all leave.. butt theyre still there shoring themselves up..protecting their stake in whats left of the club

history will remember these blokes.. as the crew that wrecked my club!!!

sticks.. youll be remembered as the guy who was the glue that held together a bunch of blokes that delivered this club to hell.
this has your fingerprints all over it....
u should have left with elliott... u didnt....

even when u leave .. my bet is youll always stick your nose into this clubs affairs.. people will seek u for their own means you useful idiot you!!

i wonder if you know what you really are.. and how these people REALLY think of u...
i dont believe you do... you probably see yourself as someone who can contribute off your own bat.

you useful fool!!!.. you useful idiot!!.you helped murder this club...!!!. thats how youll be remembered.

Try and live with thaat.. you caretaker president...
You said yourself if someone better comes along youd move away....
do you really believe there is nobody better?
You useful idiot!!!.. but not for this club but for your masters....

Live with that!

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


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 Post subject: What Do We Do Best?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:31 pm 
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Rod McGregor
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Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:36 am
Posts: 185
Turn the ball over.

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Audere est Facere


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