TalkingCarlton :: View topic - What does this club stand for?

Spot on trublu - but what are you going to do about it? Venting on here is not the answer. You're preaching to the nearly converted.

...worse of all is how the club came out and bragging about our the next diesel Williams in Patrick Cripps. If you ever listen to Geelong players, they will tell you that the club will never brand a player or make a name of a player and that he has to earn it himself. Instead, our club liken a 17 year old kid who's yet to pay at senior over as the next diesel.

trublu wrote:

If you ever listen to Geelong players, they will tell you that the club will never brand a player or make a name of a player and that he has to earn it himself.

DocSherrin wrote:

Spot on trublu - but what are you going to do about it? Venting on here is not the answer. You're preaching to the nearly converted.

Hear hear. New thread required for every thought!

It's a great question.

When Hinkley took over at Port he declared his team would never, ever give up.

It's at once a simple and very complex claim. But at its root the simplicity makes it something easy to aim for.

We don't even have that.

camelboy wrote:

The previous coach (ratten) came in and made a statement of similar effect - that he wished to instill in players pride of the jumper, earn respect on field etc.

Main difference was that the club (board) never got 100% behind the coach (coached under pressure EVERY year) OR provided the support necessary for him to do the job (part time VFL coach!). At the first sign of weakness (massive injury hurdles in 2012), the board decided to make a short term decision to sack the 'lesser' coach and appoint a 'saviour' ex-premiership coach.ratte

Compare that to the review the cats board had and subsequent decision to reappoint thompson back in 2009 or so...

Sad to say, but in recent memory the club stands for short term fixes and self interest

4thchicken wrote:

camelboy wrote:

ratten had more than 5 yars to do that

he left not one leader
he did however leave the club strewn with half back flankers and wasted picks used on them

he left us no mids pushing through....

Synbad wrote:

4thchicken wrote:

camelboy wrote:

ratten had more than 5 yars to do that

he left not one leader
he did however leave the club strewn with half back flankers and wasted picks used on them

he left us no mids pushing through....

They period was 06/07 where the cats had their review. At the time, thompson who had just finished his 7th season, was criticised as being limited as a coach (may have done as much as he could) & recruitment/players were panned.

Post review, Balme was brought in as footy operations manager, the entire strength/fitness/conditioning/physio department was overhauled, a new leadership programme was brought in/implemented (also changes to captaincy/leadership team) - minimal changes were made to the coaching dept.

cf that to carlton in 2012
We brought in the saviour and sacked most of the coaching staff. Judd stepped down and we appointed murphy.

Not one leader? - simpson & carazzo were and are more than capable of taking on the mantle of captaincy - too old?

Harley was 28 when he was appointed to the cats captaincy - most pundits would not have expected him to have been named captain.

"Harley was told he was appointed partly because he was a player who would "dig deep and stand up when it counts".
He was also chosen to improve communication between players, and with the Cats' coaching staff and board.
"I'm really looking forward to getting into it," he said.
"I'm happy the decision was made before pre-season so I can grow into the role and help ensure the footy department heads in the right direction."

What did we do? - we ummed and ahhed until march before appointing murphy as a captain - we reduced our leadership group but outside of duigan, didnt introduce any new players into that group.

Midfielders? - our midfield group and the players coming through were highly rated up until injuries started hitting in 2012. They were drafted and groomed to play a certain game style. Our game plan is now the complete opposite of what it was in Rattens era so its not too surprising that we dont have players that appear capable under mick's coaching.

In 2011, we were ranked 3rd in marks & 4th in disposals, 7th in contested marking, 3rd in marks inside 50, 3rd in goal assists, we were one of the better teams at denying the opposition possesion (disposal differential) and had one of the better defences (4th best in goals against)

In 2013, we were ranked 11th in marks & 9th in disposals, 1st in contested marking, 5th in marks inside 50, 6th in goal assists, we LOST our ability to deny the opposition possesion (disposal differential) and had the 13th most goals kicked against us.

4thchicken wrote:

Synbad wrote:

4thchicken wrote:

camelboy wrote:

ratten had more than 5 yars to do that

he left not one leader
he did however leave the club strewn with half back flankers and wasted picks used on them

he left us no mids pushing through....

1st in contested marking???
really?

Author:	trublu [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:	What does this club stand for?
Since our darkest period in the clubs history, I've struggled to understand what the club stands for. It all went wrong when we as a club tried to buy respect rather than earn it. Instead of a roll up your selves and a heads down bums approach to rebuild this club. We used Visy money to restore this clubs position and decided grandstand and gloat about the resurgence of the club with crappy slogans "we are coming' and 'smell what we cooking'. This created a poor culture. The club tried to buy respect rather than earn by working hard. Then we hear our president come on radio and say he thinks the club has have the football department sorted and are happy with it and now focusing on getting rid of the debt. How can he be satisfied with football department and coaching panel that consists of Malthouse and Laidley. Then John Barker and Brad Green and Luke Webster. A poor recruiting department. How can he settle for that? The PR spin currently being spewed out by the club to sell memberships is just shit. I mean start of the year we read that Juddy is flying and will play more practice matches than usual..... Two weeks later he's having surgery. We read the players had a ripping training camp away...... Load of baloney! Someone at the club forgot to book an indoor stadium to train and our players had to do skills training out in the snow. But worse of all is how the club came out and bragging about our the next diesel Williams in Patrick Cripps. If you ever listen to Geelong players, they will tell you that the club will never brand a player or make a name of a player and that he has to earn it himself. Instead, our club liken a 17 year old kid who's yet to pay at senior over as the next diesel.

Author:	Franc de Borges [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:	What does this club stand for?
Let's not forget Matthew "if he trains well he'll play this week" Kreuzer or Carrazzo's four month "two week" calf niggle.

Author:	DocSherrin III [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What does this club stand for?
Spot on trublu - but what are you going to do about it? Venting on here is not the answer. You're preaching to the nearly converted.

Author:	dane [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:	What does this club stand for?
DocSherrin wrote: Spot on trublu - but what are you going to do about it? Venting on here is not the answer. You're preaching to the nearly converted. Hear hear. New thread required for every thought!

Author:	Pafloyul [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What does this club stand for?
trublu wrote: ...worse of all is how the club came out and bragging about our the next diesel Williams in Patrick Cripps. If you ever listen to Geelong players, they will tell you that the club will never brand a player or make a name of a player and that he has to earn it himself. Instead, our club liken a 17 year old kid who's yet to pay at senior over as the next diesel. He's "the extractor"... made in our own image to combat what was once considered our most glaring weakness. He may still have a great football career yet but because of innate talent, not because we projected our own egocentricities onto him.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	bluehammer [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What does this club stand for?
Pafloyul wrote: trublu wrote: If you ever listen to Geelong players, they will tell you that the club will never brand a player or make a name of a player and that he has to earn it himself. They used to call that bloke who wore #29 Gary Ablett, that was a big call. But he's probably earned the title since.

Author:	Andyblue [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: What does this club stand for?
The club stands for a glorious past. I'm over history, give me a glorious future!!!!!! All those who have failed me and my club, please leave the room and do not attempt to return.

Author:	camel [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: What does this club stand for?
It's a great question. When Hinkley took over at Port he declared his team would never, ever give up. It's at once a simple and very complex claim. But at its root the simplicity makes it something easy to aim for. We don't even have that.

Author:	Rocco Iguana [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What does this club stand for?
We are Carlton and we have been drinking our own bathwater.

Author:	Bluey44 [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What does this club stand for?
dane wrote: DocSherrin wrote: Spot on trublu - but what are you going to do about it? Venting on here is not the answer. You're preaching to the nearly converted. Hear hear. New thread required for every thought! Agreed. I'm gonna start a new thread called: MY CLUB: CARLTON. WHAT ARE WE COOKING ?

Author:	4thchicken [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What does this club stand for?
camelboy wrote: It's a great question. When Hinkley took over at Port he declared his team would never, ever give up. It's at once a simple and very complex claim. But at its root the simplicity makes it something easy to aim for. We don't even have that. The previous coach (ratten) came in and made a statement of similar effect - that he wished to instill in players pride of the jumper, earn respect on field etc. Main difference was that the club (board) never got 100% behind the coach (coached under pressure EVERY year) OR provided the support necessary for him to do the job (part time VFL coach!). At the first sign of weakness (massive injury hurdles in 2012), the board decided to make a short term decision to sack the 'lesser' coach and appoint a 'saviour' ex-premiership coach. Compare that to the review the cats board had and subsequent decision to reappoint thompson back in 2009 or so... Sad to say, but in recent memory the club stands for short term fixes and self interest

Author:	Rocco Iguana [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What does this club stand for?
we are reaping what we have sow ... shit-beans a plenty

Author:	Synbad [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What does this club stand for?
4thchicken wrote: camelboy wrote: It's a great question. When Hinkley took over at Port he declared his team would never, ever give up. It's at once a simple and very complex claim. But at its root the simplicity makes it something easy to aim for. We don't even have that. The previous coach (ratten) came in and made a statement of similar effect - that he wished to instill in players pride of the jumper, earn respect on field etc. Main difference was that the club (board) never got 100% behind the coach (coached under pressure EVERY year) OR provided the support necessary for him to do the job (part time VFL coach!). At the first sign of weakness (massive injury hurdles in 2012), the board decided to make a short term decision to sack the 'lesser' coach and appoint a 'saviour' ex-premiership coach.ratte Compare that to the review the cats board had and subsequent decision to reappoint thompson back in 2009 or so... Sad to say, but in recent memory the club stands for short term fixes and self interest ratten had more than 5 yars to do that he left not one leader he did however leave the club strewn with half back flankers and wasted picks used on them he left us no mids pushing through.... these team of ninety five should never be allowed to work at the club again the only other club i can think of who have relied heavily on ex players.. Essendon* hird bomba hamilton wallis and evans .. and their club doctor... circles of stupidity

Author:	camel [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What does this club stand for?
It's true there are multiple parties to blame, but it's hard for the head coach to have a direction if the board doesn't give him a rudder to guide him. "We want to play finals" is not a direction.

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Author:	Bluey44 [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What does this club stand for?
This is what our club and TalkingCarlton stands for:

Author:	Sugarcane [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What does this club stand for?
The club stands for past glories, past practices, and arrogance No I'm serious ..

Author:	4thchicken [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What does this club stand for?
Synbad wrote: 4thchicken wrote: camelboy wrote: It's a great question. When Hinkley took over at Port he declared his team would never, ever give up. It's at once a simple and very complex claim. But at its root the simplicity makes it something easy to aim for. We don't even have that. The previous coach (ratten) came in and made a statement of similar effect - that he wished to instill in players pride of the jumper, earn respect on field etc. Main difference was that the club (board) never got 100% behind the coach (coached under pressure EVERY year) OR provided the support necessary for him to do the job (part time VFL coach!). At the first sign of weakness (massive injury hurdles in 2012), the board decided to make a short term decision to sack the 'lesser' coach and appoint a 'saviour' ex-premiership coach.ratte Compare that to the review the cats board had and subsequent decision to reappoint thompson back in 2009 or so... Sad to say, but in recent memory the club stands for short term fixes and self interest ratten had more than 5 yars to do that he left not one leader he did however leave the club strewn with half back flankers and wasted picks used on them he left us no mids pushing through.... They period was 06/07 where the cats had their review. At the time, thompson who had just finished his 7th season, was criticised as being limited as a coach (may have done as much as he could) & recruitment/players were panned. Post review, Balme was brought in as footy operations manager, the entire strength/fitness/conditioning/physio department was overhauled, a new leadership programme was brought in/implemented (also changes to captaincy/leadership team) - minimal changes were made to the coaching dept. cf that to carlton in 2012 We brought in the saviour and sacked most of the coaching staff. Judd stepped down and we appointed murphy. Not one leader? - simpson & carazzo were and are more than capable of taking on the mantle of captaincy - too old? Harley was 28 when he was appointed to the cats captaincy - most pundits would not have expected him to have been named captain. "Harley was told he was appointed partly because he was a player who would "dig deep and stand up when it counts". He was also chosen to improve communication between players, and with the Cats' coaching staff and board. "I'm really looking forward to getting into it," he said. "I'm happy the decision was made before pre-season so I can grow into the role and help ensure the footy department heads in the right direction." What did we do? - we ummed and ahhed until march before appointing murphy as a captain - we reduced our leadership group but outside of duigan, didnt introduce any new players into that group. Midfielders? - our midfield group and the players coming through were highly rated up until injuries started hitting in 2012. They were drafted and groomed to play a certain game style. Our game plan is now the complete opposite of what it was in Rattens era so its not too surprising that we dont have players that appear capable under mick's coaching. In 2011, we were ranked 3rd in marks & 4th in disposals, 7th in contested marking, 3rd in marks inside 50, 3rd in goal assists, we were one of the better teams at denying the opposition possesion (disposal differential) and had one of the better defences (4th best in goals against) In 2013, we were ranked 11th in marks & 9th in disposals, 1st in contested marking, 5th in marks inside 50, 6th in goal assists, we LOST our ability to deny the opposition possesion (disposal differential) and had the 13th most goals kicked against us.

Author:	Bluey44 [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What does this club stand for?
4thchicken wrote: Synbad wrote: 4thchicken wrote: camelboy wrote: It's a great question. When Hinkley took over at Port he declared his team would never, ever give up. It's at once a simple and very complex claim. But at its root the simplicity makes it something easy to aim for. We don't even have that. The previous coach (ratten) came in and made a statement of similar effect - that he wished to instill in players pride of the jumper, earn respect on field etc. Main difference was that the club (board) never got 100% behind the coach (coached under pressure EVERY year) OR provided the support necessary for him to do the job (part time VFL coach!). At the first sign of weakness (massive injury hurdles in 2012), the board decided to make a short term decision to sack the 'lesser' coach and appoint a 'saviour' ex-premiership coach.ratte Compare that to the review the cats board had and subsequent decision to reappoint thompson back in 2009 or so... Sad to say, but in recent memory the club stands for short term fixes and self interest ratten had more than 5 yars to do that he left not one leader he did however leave the club strewn with half back flankers and wasted picks used on them he left us no mids pushing through.... They period was 06/07 where the cats had their review. At the time, thompson who had just finished his 7th season, was criticised as being limited as a coach (may have done as much as he could) & recruitment/players were panned. Post review, Balme was brought in as footy operations manager, the entire strength/fitness/conditioning/physio department was overhauled, a new leadership programme was brought in/implemented (also changes to captaincy/leadership team) - minimal changes were made to the coaching dept. cf that to carlton in 2012 We brought in the saviour and sacked most of the coaching staff. Judd stepped down and we appointed murphy. Not one leader? - simpson & carazzo were and are more than capable of taking on the mantle of captaincy - too old? Harley was 28 when he was appointed to the cats captaincy - most pundits would not have expected him to have been named captain. "Harley was told he was appointed partly because he was a player who would "dig deep and stand up when it counts". He was also chosen to improve communication between players, and with the Cats' coaching staff and board. "I'm really looking forward to getting into it," he said. "I'm happy the decision was made before pre-season so I can grow into the role and help ensure the footy department heads in the right direction." What did we do? - we ummed and ahhed until march before appointing murphy as a captain - we reduced our leadership group but outside of duigan, didnt introduce any new players into that group. Midfielders? - our midfield group and the players coming through were highly rated up until injuries started hitting in 2012. They were drafted and groomed to play a certain game style. Our game plan is now the complete opposite of what it was in Rattens era so its not too surprising that we dont have players that appear capable under mick's coaching. In 2011, we were ranked 3rd in marks & 4th in disposals, 7th in contested marking, 3rd in marks inside 50, 3rd in goal assists, we were one of the better teams at denying the opposition possesion (disposal differential) and had one of the better defences (4th best in goals against) In 2013, we were ranked 11th in marks & 9th in disposals, 1st in contested marking, 5th in marks inside 50, 6th in goal assists, we LOST our ability to deny the opposition possesion (disposal differential) and had the 13th most goals kicked against us. 1st in contested marking??? really?

Author:	Effes [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What does this club stand for?
Bluey44 wrote: 4thchicken wrote: Synbad wrote: 4thchicken wrote: camelboy wrote: It's a great question. When Hinkley took over at Port he declared his team would never, ever give up. It's at once a simple and very complex claim. But at its root the simplicity makes it something easy to aim for. We don't even have that. The previous coach (ratten) came in and made a statement of similar effect - that he wished to instill in players pride of the jumper, earn respect on field etc. Main difference was that the club (board) never got 100% behind the coach (coached under pressure EVERY year) OR provided the support necessary for him to do the job (part time VFL coach!). At the first sign of weakness (massive injury hurdles in 2012), the board decided to make a short term decision to sack the 'lesser' coach and appoint a 'saviour' ex-premiership coach.ratte Compare that to the review the cats board had and subsequent decision to reappoint thompson back in 2009 or so... Sad to say, but in recent memory the club stands for short term fixes and self interest ratten had more than 5 yars to do that he left not one leader he did however leave the club strewn with half back flankers and wasted picks used on them he left us no mids pushing through.... They period was 06/07 where the cats had their review. At the time, thompson who had just finished his 7th season, was criticised as being limited as a coach (may have done as much as he could) & recruitment/players were panned. Post review, Balme was brought in as footy operations manager, the entire strength/fitness/conditioning/physio department was overhauled, a new leadership programme was brought in/implemented (also changes to captaincy/leadership team) - minimal changes were made to the coaching dept. cf that to carlton in 2012 We brought in the saviour and sacked most of the coaching staff. Judd stepped down and we appointed murphy. Not one leader? - simpson & carazzo were and are more than capable of taking on the mantle of captaincy - too old? Harley was 28 when he was appointed to the cats captaincy - most pundits would not have expected him to have been named captain. "Harley was told he was appointed partly because he was a player who would "dig deep and stand up when it counts". He was also chosen to improve communication between players, and with the Cats' coaching staff and board. "I'm really looking forward to getting into it," he said. "I'm happy the decision was made before pre-season so I can grow into the role and help ensure the footy department heads in the right direction." What did we do? - we ummed and ahhed until march before appointing murphy as a captain - we reduced our leadership group but outside of duigan, didnt introduce any new players into that group. Midfielders? - our midfield group and the players coming through were highly rated up until injuries started hitting in 2012. They were drafted and groomed to play a certain game style. Our game plan is now the complete opposite of what it was in Rattens era so its not too surprising that we dont have players that appear capable under mick's coaching. In 2011, we were ranked 3rd in marks & 4th in disposals, 7th in contested marking, 3rd in marks inside 50, 3rd in goal assists, we were one of the better teams at denying the opposition possesion (disposal differential) and had one of the better defences (4th best in goals against) In 2013, we were ranked 11th in marks & 9th in disposals, 1st in contested marking, 5th in marks inside 50, 6th in goal assists, we LOST our ability to deny the opposition possesion (disposal differential) and had the 13th most goals kicked against us. 1st in contested marking??? really? No doubt about it 1st in contested marking because MM gave them so many chances to take contested marks via a gameplan which involved kicking to contests.