Garry Lyon's article about Chris Judd inspired this thread, but not how 'Gazza' thinks.

When we first secured Judd, I was as ecstatic as any Carlton supporter, although wary that we'd let Josh Kennedy slip away. What I liked was the potential culture change he brought to the club. We heard stories about how his new team mates changed their dietary habits in his presence, and generally it seemed he was a positive influence.

Simultaneously, we heard that he's distant and not into football culture. He once said that his favourite book was 'The Outsider' by Albert Camus.

So my question is whether Judd has been good for building a team culture, something I believe is crucial for success, or has his isolated personality and extraordinary contract terms (especially since we gave away such a devoted clubman to get him) been an impediment to team bonding?

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"The old believe everything, the middle-aged suspect everything, and the young know everything." Oscar Wilde

Judds professionalism was something we absolutely needed given our other "leaders" were Whitnall, Fev and Stevens. In that environment I've got no doubt Josh would've turned out like our other highly drafted KPPs. It was absolutely the right decision.



The fact we've not taken full advantage and STILL have a lack of leadership is our own damn fault.

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

Should have got Judd and kept Kennedy. Been harder negotiators and recruited better while we're changing history

@#$%&! off Garry. How are the dees going flog?

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dane's trolling again

Yes. Everyday of the week.

It's not Judd's fault the club is run by morons!!!

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

In hindsight I wish we were a much better club before we got Judd. He would have been the last piece of the puzzle for premierships. But we weren't a better club, and Judd coming to us was the beginning of new hope, which we desperately needed at the time. Carlton had just come through (and still is, until we win a flag imho) the darkest period of its illustrious history. It wasn't just about securing the premier player of the AFL, it was just as much about coming out of a really terrible era where getting thumped by 100+ points was on the cards any given weekend. Judd was (and still is) quality, and we desperately needed the BEST in the business, not just for his ability on field, but I believe more importantly passing on the smarts (what it takes to be the best) to our number 1 draft pick Mark Murphy and the rest of the squad. This alone is invaluable. Quality breeds quality. We are lucky to have him in Navy Blue!

Unfortunately I think it's ours.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

...the fact that we are talking about ONE decision, ONE player, says it all....

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

Pretty much. You can't dissociate the decision itself with the mindset of the club at the time and the outcome, they are inescapably linked. This is not recruiting Judd to some theoretical phantom club, it's recruiting Judd to Carlton. Not only would 'we' not do it again, we shouldn't have done it in the first place. Judd was the crutch that stopped us walking on our own two feet.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

If it stopped the filth getting him and as a result them winning more premierships, I say it was a good decision.

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THEY LIKE TO SEND UP!!!!!!!!

Until each team plays each other the same number of times, the AFL, as a fair dinkum competition, cannot be taken seriously.

He (Mr Swann) said the honour and pride associated with the club's traditional navy blue jumper was priceless.

The Judd camp made it clear to Swan that picks 3 & 20 were sufficient.... the subsequent compensation to Geelong for Ablett proved this right!!

And then we gave up pick 11 for Brock because Juddy needed help inside... that didn't work!!

...there is the problem in a nut shell - "Juddy needed help inside"

Juddy

Juddy needed help inside

Yes ladies and gentlemen "Juddy needed help inside"

NOT THE TEAM

Juddy

Just Juddy needed help inside

I don't recall the cats recruiting someone because Selwood needed help inside, Or Bartel, etc...They recruit players based on character first and whether they fit the Geelong sporting culture - then they look at talent. If you don't get over the first hurdles you're not in the running to play for the cats.

why wouldn't we recruit someone to help Murphy, or Gibbsy, Or Robbo-y, or Jamo-y?

although we should have recruited this man to assist with "pressure points and chicken wing tackles"

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

GET JUDD AGAIN

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Yep. No issue with the Judd trade at all. Probably would of done more to keep Kennedy by offering different players and picks. Don't believe we payed hard ball enough on deal.

Judd has been fantastic, couldn't of done anymore. The problem is he was surrounded by poor recruiting, coaching and development.

Without him we could of been even worse.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

so our success is based upon one player??

there is our problem in a nut shell - never talking about the TEAM.......

TEAM

(what the players do in their spare time is their own business, but once they set foot into the club, and put that blue jumper on, its all about TEAM sacrifice. The cats sorted that out in 2006 and havent looked back. Their young players come into that strong leadership environment and usually succeed by getting the best out of themselves. We can see from our best football that we have some serious talent on our list. But nothing happens, finals expose us, the Hawks have been bashing us since 2007, and we respond in the same manner. Do we know WHO we are anymore?)

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

???????

Where did I say our success was based on one player? I was talking about the Judd trade, nothing else.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

...the point that I am trying to make is WHY ARE WE EVEN talking about this issue? One Player, One decision? As if our success resides on the recruitment of one player.

Our problems do not stem from the recruitment of any one player, just as the solution to these problems does not rest on the back of any one player...

In fact there are two threads on this very Judd recruitment decision running at the moment

says it all doesnt it

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

I totally agree with you about our issues.

IMO it's simply a discussion piece about what should of been a changing time at the club and we blew it. Judd and a number of low draft picks should of seen us consistently in the Top 4. WTF happened.

The issue may well be that some of us have been pushing and discussing the recruitment/list management issue for a long long time.

What more can we say?

It's crap, it's the worst in the AFL, it needs fixing now, it's the biggest problem at the club, it' a disgrace, YES, YES, YES & YES.

What more can we do? I've spoken with people at the club, written letters, given my opinion loudly, spoken with sponsors, (I am a sponsor myself) and committee members but in the end I have no influence.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

Sermon 12:34:11 Sunday Service

We can be honest we ourselves from top to bottom....

How can the players be expected to be honest, if the entire club doesnt face the truth and tackle it???

the cats are a prime example of carrying out an honest internal appraisal of where the club is at and how to go forward as a unit.

The port power in 2012 was an absolute basket case, financially and on all levels at the club. They were said to have a poor list, and were close to having the AFL interfere to keep them afloat.

Strong leadership and its continuity has been a main problem, since about 2004, especially amongst the playing group. For some reason the continuity of leadership and honesty at our club since barrassi and Harris were in charge in the 1960s ended a couple of years into the Pagan years.

I was a big fan of Fev, fanatastic match winner, but we never did what the Cats did with say stevie Johnston and ask him to piss off from the club for 6 weeks and decide to come back and play more of a team role, with consistent 1%ers each week. And not just Fev. Everyone. And that includes Judd working on his kicking skills - especially kicking for goal (I recall diesel as skills acquisition coach asking Judd to work on his kicking - we all know what happened there dont we ladies and gentlemen)

I am sure Mick Malthouse assumed we had some sort of Leadership core strength that he could develop and work with.

I bet that was his biggest surprise when he took over the reigns at carlton

Without strong leadership and honesty across the whole team, you cannot go forward - IMPOSSIBLE. its never happened in professional sport EVER.

On the Judd recruitment, I think it was a good decision at the time, and Judd certainly had a impact on our professionalism and training etc, in the first two years.

At that point Judd should have stood down as captain and allowed a younger player that had leadership potential to take over the reigns. I think you have seen Judd play better too...

Again, even if that happened it would not have made any difference if the Leadership vacuum was still there at the club. Rattens two biggest mistakes were that he didnt create an environment that encouraged natural and strong leaders to grow and come out of their shells. In other words start a long term repair program of the pagan/Elshaugh damage to the leadership culture.

All is not lost though, at the cats it just clicked in 2006 and the ladies with the handbags who yielded in finals so many times, became Men of resolve, character and substance. The rest is history...

that is were we are right now. We may not have a Garry Abblett but as we saw so vividly at the end of 2010 when the cats lost Abblett, their best player, and their premiership coach, they went on to have their best season every in 2011, winning the first 13 games under Scott.

Why did that happen?

Well, even before Scott set foot into Skilled stadium, the leadership group got together and made a pact to win the 2011 flag without Abblett and Thompson...that was their challenge to themselves.

And they beat the reigning premiers, the pies, after giving them a 5 goal start, and losing their full forward in the second quarter.

It all starts with honesty

And I am sad to say that we Blues are one of the most dishonest clubs in the Southern Hemisphere

Amen

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

That's fine Cretylus and I agree with most of your points but what can WE do?

Two parts of FA.

What you say needs to happen but reality is all we can do it hope.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015