One thing that comes up time and again on footy forums is the concept that "our team " should be building for the future, so that they can emulate they latest fashionable in form team. Failure to do so is considered in this black and white armchair world as unforgivable. But is this realistic? Are we not operating in the real world and not in a vacuum where everybody else stands still?
Cant we entertain the idea that there is a certain amount of luck in the players , coaches that get combined to form formidable teams? After all, all teams are all trying to do the same thing, and with few exceptions failure to get close is not really all the fault of the administration. More, its a combination of many things that can conspire against a list to perform to their ability. Injuries can lay waste to the best of plans.
Culture is an obvious intangible that every team strives for. A winning culture breeds success and confidence, it also attracts potential players from other clubs.

But how many sides in the past modern AFL period, lets say from 2000 on, can really lay claims to being a dominant team? I am not talking here of sides that may have popped up for a great year only to sink back out of finals contention within 12 18 months, I am talking about sides that others have looked at with envy, tried to emulate, rebuilt their sides to compete with, changed coaches in the hope that they can be like them? How many of these types of sides have their truly been in the past 13 years?

Here is my quick analysis, open for debate but irrespective it shows the relatively small number of truly dominant sides there have been.

2000: Essendon*
2001: Essendon* , brisbane
2002: port adelaide, brisbane
2003: port adelaide , brisbane
2004: port adelaide, brisbane
2005:
2006:
2007: geelong
2008: geelong
2009: geelong
2010: collingwood, geelong
2011: collingwood, geelong, hawthorn
2012: hawthorn
2013: hawthorn, geelong

Now apart from Geelong, who has been there for half of the 13 years, there are only 5 other clubs to rival their dominance, albeit for shorter reigns.
Essendon* 2000
Brisbane , port early 2000's
Collingwood, hawthorn , since 2010
In all 6 sides have dominated in the 13 years.

Put another way, from 2000-2005 there were 3 dominant sides in the 6 years. Not a high percentage.
From 2006-2010 just 2 dominant sides in 5 years
The last 3 years there have ben 3 dominant sides

So what is the relevance of all this? Well in my opinion we are looking at our performance the wrong way. We all tend to look at the short term. "The blues wont make the 8 this year, sack the coach", "player x is useless " despite being injured, "our recruiting is terrible" but ignoring the game changes rapidly occuring that make players less relevant. Etc etc. But what if we want to create a geelong like dynasty?

So should we be aiming for a dominant team, or just a team that can realistically have a go in the finals and be competitive?
Should we be judging ourselves against the geelongs and brisbanes? If so then we are in very good company, in not being able to emulate their dominance and culture since 2000.

What does history show, who really remembers the also rans? Playing off in a grand final may sell memberships eg collingwoods two losing grand finals against the lions, but in the end you are not judged to be a great team by history.

Should we put our faith in malthouse to rebuild our list, even though we may miss finals next year, or do we succumb to the seduction of the finals siren? Even if he does rebuild, and we are able to rebound, do we have the right to expect to be able to become the next geelong/ brisbane given the extremely low odds of becoming such a dynasty.

In times past we could make our own luck through chequebook trading, in the end we created dynasty's around this. Our culture attracted players from far and wide. We cant do that now.
What we need to do is have faith, faith that we have made the right choice . With the exception of brisbane under mathews, all dominant sides had shown faith in their various coaches, let them develop a list capable if dominating, over a long period of time.
The problem is , its difficult to give coaches this time. Supporters , sponsors and even players, expect quick results. And there needs to be real leaders in place that are capable of accurately assessing whether the coach is on the right track or not. Do we have those leaders in place? It would seem not given the overly long contacts given to ratten and some of the players in recent times. But isnt that the problem, judgements made can seem right at the time but possibly be wrong. For example those calling for mark thompsons head many years ago, before the geelong of today emerged. History shows that he proved them wrong, even though at the time it was a very widely held view that he wasnt up to it.

It seems now that we have given faith to malthouse, he looks to be settling in for the long term. Lets hope we have made the right choice.

When you have a team full of players that accept losing so easily and have mental scars of sitting at the bottom of the ladder for years it doesnt help that the coach comes out and says its not about winning its about process after round 3 .
It just reaffirmed to these players that as long as they followed a process winning didnt matter because the coach said so

Winning should be paramount in every players mind before he walks on the park . Regardless of how good your ability is you should have a win at all cost attitude
Carlton doesnt appear to have this and to many players withdraw into their shells when things start to turn turk on the footy field

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Sydney,
You make a valid point , but i dont agree.
A long term view dictates that you must be able to accept failure in the short term. If mick demanded success from round 1 ( unrealistic given new coach, new game plan etc) then how would the players feel then? More of a failure? Less of a failure?
By concentrating on "process" he focused the players on things that they could control, work on and improve. Winning isnt always possible, and isnt always under your control.

Short term failure is fine but we have been failing for 10 plus years
Players needed to be told that winning comes first losing was no longer acceptable
MM misjudged the players they are mentally weak

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Okaaay....So now he knows they are mentally weak. What should he do now? Should he still have expectations that they should win every week(your theory) or should he do something else?

He shouldnt come out week after week saying ladder position means nothing and its not about the win column
We have a lot of what I call nice guys at the club he needs to bring in hardness and instill that on the rest of the playing group and he needs to coach to the players strengths not their weakness

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

syd the team mirrors the club

lacking direction
lack of leadership
not accountable
mediocre results
with a caste system

thats where the problem is...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I think they moved to far they went from a club that always pushed the boundries and had a touch of arrogance about to a club that was clean cut and wholesome
They have shifted to far they need to shift back a bit in all aspects of the football club

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Didn't Ratten "bring back the strut"?

And yet we finished 6 th. only five out of 18 sides were higher than us on the ladder. Do you see that as a fail? Even though he talked about process, your ladder criteria says he did ok

what a thoughtful post synbad.. Wtf ... Caste system?. What next.

11 wins and 9th - lucky to be in finals

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

What was lucky about it?

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dane's trolling again

We probably do have a caste system mentality and recruit like it, too. Judd at the top, the 'number ones' second, the other first round draft picks third and the menials that we are so patronisingly proud of last. That's the only way I can explain some of our decisions.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

What an utter and complete piece of crap

The common thread amongst the most successful teams of the last 10 or so years is the quality and effectiveness of the recruitment and development strategies of football clubs and strong leadership from Prez to CEO to Coach to Players.

Lets take Hawthorn as an example - the most successful team over the last 50 years in terms of premierships won. We rivalled them for the title in the 70's, 80's and 90's to a lesser extent. Then they went into oblivion for 18 years before they fronted another GF, but had sought to get their formula right again and become a modern day power house. The difference is we have adopted the same philosophy from the halcyon days where we think we could buy players and premierships, when we have failed to embrace and invest heavily in the recruitment and development of players!!!

There, my fellow TC'ers, is where the gap lies and we will be nothing more than, at best, a middle of the road team.

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For some silly reason, you people want to assassinate him, and it's just rubbish. You people. All of you, ALL of you!

Have to agree. We have not been able to excel in any facet on or off the field for a very long time.

BTW any chance the AFL will revert back to the zoning rules? Bendigo & the northern suburbs were rewarding.

I will tell you what last night tells me the last 2 years of trading not drafting has been deplorable
Looking at Gunston starring and caddy ripping it up as sub tells me we don't trade very Well
They trade bloody well
bloody hawthorn are traded in Gunston guerra hale Burgoyne Gibson lake
6 out of 22
What the hell are we doing in trading apart from McLean and that was almost a misfire is the last one we did well or came out on top
Judd yes but was years ago

Ratten/Hughes/Sticks

The triumvariate who have brought this once proud club to its knees

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

Pagan brought us to our knees.

Since we got rid of him it's been a steady climb back from the edge of oblivion.