TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Have we overachieved this year?

Blue Sombrero wrote:

No.
With a bit of accurate kicking and leadership from the usual suspects we could have been about 6th on the ladder.
Add Richmond, StKilda, Essendon*** x2, one of Sydney, Geelong or Hawthorn and you have it.

The list is fragile and we all know it but it isn´t a disaster, even though people (including myself), have in the heat of a bad loss painted it pretty badly.

IMO we are a key forward or back short PLUS about three or four midfielders who know how to get and use the footy. Some of those we have already.

Touhy is the first. One of the best kicks in the team. He should be told to hunt the footy. Lacks a bit of knowledge still of the game but he certainly makes up for it with G and D and he is HARD.
Armfield ditto. Hunt the footy. Fearless, quick and will win most one on ones.
Bell will be OK with more games. He is hard and runs hard. OK, he gets caught every now and then but at least he gets it and when he takes possession at full flight, he´s not going to get caught.
McLean. Already there and plays every week as though it is his last game.
Gibbs. I hate Gibbs´s apparent lack of urgency but he can use the football. If he doesn´t move to the midfield we are f/&%&.
Judd. One more year.
Garlett-Betts-Yarran. In short bursts. Garlett has visited the midfield on rare occasions and gets clearances. None of those three has a tank but they all have pace.
Simmo. We need about eleven of him.
Graham will develop. He can get it.
Maybe Menzel although I imagine him in a third forward role.
Curnow. Improved a lot this year but is really only a negating player but if we have to have one, it should be him.
Murphy. Down on form but has shown he can play footy.

That has the makings of a hard at it midfield with pretty good skills, not great but at least they can get the football and that´s a start.
Plus we will add to it this year and next.
Daisy? be nice to get him as a FA: I seriously think we will go hard for him. His ankle would have to be seriously healed.
Trade for another established mid if possible.
Draft another couple.

We could clean out about 10-12 players and still keep those above.

The ruck is a worry.
Kreuzer is now established as the Number 1 when available but he doesn´t get a lot of taps to advantage.
Warnock is just a useless giraffe who gets 45 taps, of which 35 drop at his feet, three are great and the rest go to the opposition. He hasn´t taken a contested pack mark in living memory. All his marks this time back have been chest marks or uncontested. When I say áll´I have to say ´all´because there have been more than two in total.
Hampson is better all round than Warnock but can´t stay on the park.
Levi is doing KO for a while but really needs time to develop a fitness base.
Rowe is behind Levi.

It isn´t that bad. It´s more attitude and lack of leadership that lets us down. Plus a couple of players need a change of roles for mine when they are ready to go into the mids.

I feel xactly the same about the team....nice to see you've cooled down since the game BS.

I think we have a important parts missing. A KP and a 3 extra mids please...and Levi to get a bigger engine and staighter kick.

I dont think we have over achieved. I think we've under achieved.
Some blame the coach, others blame the players, whilst some think the list is [REDACTED].

I think the coach could have played to our strengths a bit more than he has. I'm hoping he's learned a bit more about his players.
I think a good fitness guru, and some specialist coaches are a necessity...and get rid of the players who are not the future ie 2014 and beyond to help improve our depth.

Author:	Adam Chatfield [ Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Have we overachieved this year?
Now it seems me and many others over estimated the quality we have at our club. It's got to the point I wonder how we have won as many games as we have, and we rarely get blown away. This year though we have had less injuries than 2012 we have had a further declining Judd and unfit Murphy and Carrots which has reduced our midfield to VFL battlers largely. We lack good KPP's too, and I think on talent we are now only ahead of St Kilda and Melbourne talent wise going forward, and for this year have only been ahead of the expansion teams and Doggies due to their inexperience. This trading and draft period is absolutely pivotal, I think it's inevitable we will go backwards next year but we can at least stem the bleeding by bringing some quality into the club. What are everyone else's thoughts?

Author:	Blue Sombrero [ Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we overachieved this year?
No. With a bit of accurate kicking and leadership from the usual suspects we could have been about 6th on the ladder. Add Richmond, StKilda, Essendon* x2, one of Sydney, Geelong or Hawthorn and you have it. The list is fragile and we all know it but it isn´t a disaster, even though people (including myself), have in the heat of a bad loss painted it pretty badly. IMO we are a key forward or back short PLUS about three or four midfielders who know how to get and use the footy. Some of those we have already. Touhy is the first. One of the best kicks in the team. He should be told to hunt the footy. Lacks a bit of knowledge still of the game but he certainly makes up for it with G and D and he is HARD. Armfield ditto. Hunt the footy. Fearless, quick and will win most one on ones. Bell will be OK with more games. He is hard and runs hard. OK, he gets caught every now and then but at least he gets it and when he takes possession at full flight, he´s not going to get caught. McLean. Already there and plays every week as though it is his last game. Gibbs. I hate Gibbs´s apparent lack of urgency but he can use the football. If he doesn´t move to the midfield we are f/&%&. Judd. One more year. Garlett-Betts-Yarran. In short bursts. Garlett has visited the midfield on rare occasions and gets clearances. None of those three has a tank but they all have pace. Simmo. We need about eleven of him. Graham will develop. He can get it. Maybe Menzel although I imagine him in a third forward role. Curnow. Improved a lot this year but is really only a negating player but if we have to have one, it should be him. Murphy. Down on form but has shown he can play footy. That has the makings of a hard at it midfield with pretty good skills, not great but at least they can get the football and that´s a start. Plus we will add to it this year and next. Daisy? be nice to get him as a FA: I seriously think we will go hard for him. His ankle would have to be seriously healed. Trade for another established mid if possible. Draft another couple. We could clean out about 10-12 players and still keep those above. The ruck is a worry. Kreuzer is now established as the Number 1 when available but he doesn´t get a lot of taps to advantage. Warnock is just a useless giraffe who gets 45 taps, of which 35 drop at his feet, three are great and the rest go to the opposition. He hasn´t taken a contested pack mark in living memory. All his marks this time back have been chest marks or uncontested. When I say áll´I have to say ´all´because there have been more than two in total. Hampson is better all round than Warnock but can´t stay on the park. Levi is doing KO for a while but really needs time to develop a fitness base. Rowe is behind Levi. It isn´t that bad. It´s more attitude and lack of leadership that lets us down. Plus a couple of players need a change of roles for mine when they are ready to go into the mids.

Author:	bender [ Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we overachieved this year?
great post BS, well put and thought out. there is hope yet, but we do need a change of mindset with these players to get them there

Author:	Pafloyul [ Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we overachieved this year?
We are where we deserve to be but on the way down, particularly if we don't learn from our past failings and more about how the modern game works. It's pointless to think we've overachieved and counter-productive to think we should be challenging without the 'cattle'. We need our bubble to burst big time or we'll keep making the same mistakes over and over again. I'm still not sure the penny has dropped.

Author:	17th Premiership [ Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we overachieved this year?
I definitely think we underachieved. There are several games that we lost but should have won. I can't think of any that we won but should have lost. Of course, one of my favourite sayings is that 'an organisation is perfectly designed for the outcomes it achieves'. According to this, we have performed exactly as we are set up to do. The key is to understand which parts of the organisation need to be redesigned to give us a better result.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

Have we overachieved this year? http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33296	Page 1 of 1

Author:	BigBlueWave [ Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we overachieved this year?
Is this a joke ... lol This year has been a gigantic stuff up ... we see it week after week with team selection ... let alone inadequate tactical decisions ... a coach who doesn't take responsibility but blames everyone else ... etc etc etc. We have underachieved big time ... and sorry guys ... but under this coach we are in for more pain unless we are very very lucky.

Author:	bondiblue [ Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we overachieved this year?
Blue Sombrero wrote: No. With a bit of accurate kicking and leadership from the usual suspects we could have been about 6th on the ladder. Add Richmond, StKilda, Essendon** x2, one of Sydney, Geelong or Hawthorn and you have it. The list is fragile and we all know it but it isn´t a disaster, even though people (including myself), have in the heat of a bad loss painted it pretty badly. IMO we are a key forward or back short PLUS about three or four midfielders who know how to get and use the footy. Some of those we have already. Touhy is the first. One of the best kicks in the team. He should be told to hunt the footy. Lacks a bit of knowledge still of the game but he certainly makes up for it with G and D and he is HARD. Armfield ditto. Hunt the footy. Fearless, quick and will win most one on ones. Bell will be OK with more games. He is hard and runs hard. OK, he gets caught every now and then but at least he gets it and when he takes possession at full flight, he´s not going to get caught. McLean. Already there and plays every week as though it is his last game. Gibbs. I hate Gibbs´s apparent lack of urgency but he can use the football. If he doesn´t move to the midfield we are f/&%&. Judd. One more year. Garlett-Betts-Yarran. In short bursts. Garlett has visited the midfield on rare occasions and gets clearances. None of those three has a tank but they all have pace. Simmo. We need about eleven of him. Graham will develop. He can get it. Maybe Menzel although I imagine him in a third forward role. Curnow. Improved a lot this year but is really only a negating player but if we have to have one, it should be him. Murphy. Down on form but has shown he can play footy. That has the makings of a hard at it midfield with pretty good skills, not great but at least they can get the football and that´s a start. Plus we will add to it this year and next. Daisy? be nice to get him as a FA: I seriously think we will go hard for him. His ankle would have to be seriously healed. Trade for another established mid if possible. Draft another couple. We could clean out about 10-12 players and still keep those above. The ruck is a worry. Kreuzer is now established as the Number 1 when available but he doesn´t get a lot of taps to advantage. Warnock is just a useless giraffe who gets 45 taps, of which 35 drop at his feet, three are great and the rest go to the opposition. He hasn´t taken a contested pack mark in living memory. All his marks this time back have been chest marks or uncontested. When I say áll´I have to say ´all´because there have been more than two in total. Hampson is better all round than Warnock but can´t stay on the park. Levi is doing KO for a while but really needs time to develop a fitness base. Rowe is behind Levi. It isn´t that bad. It´s more attitude and lack of leadership that lets us down. Plus a couple of players need a change of roles for mine when they are ready to go into the mids. I feel xactly the same about the team....nice to see you've cooled down since the game BS. I think we have a important parts missing. A KP and a 3 extra mids please...and Levi to get a bigger engine and staighter kick. I dont think we have over achieved. I think we've under achieved. Some blame the coach, others blame the players, whilst some think the list is [REDACTED]. I think the coach could have played to our strengths a bit more than he has. I'm hoping he's learned a bit more about his players. I think a good fitness guru, and some specialist coaches are a necessity...and get rid of the players who are not the future ie 2014 and beyond to help improve our depth.

Author:	BigBlueWave [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we overachieved this year?
bondiblue wrote: Blue Sombrero wrote: No. With a bit of accurate kicking and leadership from the usual suspects we could have been about 6th on the ladder. Add Richmond, StKilda, Essendon*** x2, one of Sydney, Geelong or Hawthorn and you have it. The list is fragile and we all know it but it isn´t a disaster, even though people (including myself), have in the heat of a bad loss painted it pretty badly. IMO we are a key forward or back short PLUS about three or four midfielders who know how to get and use the footy. Some of those we have already. Touhy is the first. One of the best kicks in the team. He should be told to hunt the footy. Lacks a bit of knowledge still of the game but he certainly makes up for it with G and D and he is HARD. Armfield ditto. Hunt the footy. Fearless, quick and will win most one on ones. Bell will be OK with more games. He is hard and runs hard. OK, he gets caught every now and then but at least he gets it and when he takes possession at full flight, he´s not going to get caught. McLean. Already there and plays every week as though it is his last game. Gibbs. I hate Gibbs´s apparent lack of urgency but he can use the football. If he doesn´t move to the midfield we are f/&%&. Judd. One more year. Garlett-Betts-Yarran. In short bursts. Garlett has visited the midfield on rare occasions and gets clearances. None of those three has a tank but they all have pace. Simmo. We need about eleven of him. Graham will develop. He can get it. Maybe Menzel although I imagine him in a third forward role. Curnow. Improved a lot this year but is really only a negating player but if we have to have one, it should be him. Murphy. Down on form but has shown he can play footy. That has the makings of a hard at it midfield with pretty good skills, not great but at least they can get the football and that´s a start. Plus we will add to it this year and next. Daisy? be nice to get him as a FA: I seriously think we will go hard for him. His ankle would have to be seriously healed. Trade for another established mid if possible. Draft another couple. We could clean out about 10-12 players and still keep those above. The ruck is a worry. Kreuzer is now established as the Number 1 when available but he doesn´t get a lot of taps to advantage. Warnock is just a useless giraffe who gets 45 taps, of which 35 drop at his feet, three are great and the rest go to the opposition. He hasn´t taken a contested pack mark in living memory. All his marks this time back have been chest marks or uncontested. When I say áll´I have to say ´all´because there have been more than two in total. Hampson is better all round than Warnock but can´t stay on the park. Levi is doing KO for a while but really needs time to develop a fitness base. Rowe is behind Levi. It isn´t that bad. It´s more attitude and lack of leadership that lets us down. Plus a couple of players need a change of roles for mine when they are ready to go into the mids. I feel xactly the same about the team....nice to see you've cooled down since the game BS. I think we have a important parts missing. A KP and a 3 extra mids please...and Levi to get a bigger engine and staighter kick. I dont think we have over achieved. I think we've under achieved. Some blame the coach, others blame the players, whilst some think the list is [REDACTED]. I think the coach could have played to our strengths a bit more than he has. I'm hoping he's learned a bit more about his players. I think a good fitness guru, and some specialist coaches are a necessity...and get rid of the players who are not the future ie 2014 and beyond to help improve our depth. Yep ... one thing we do know is the coach always blames the players.

Author:	cimm1979 [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we overachieved this year?
We've overachieved in almost the same way I have overachieved in my current attempt to lose weight.

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