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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:19 pm 
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formerly Virgin Blue

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As Graphic Designer and Art Director Paul Rand once said, “It is only by association with a product, a service, a business, or a corporation that a logo takes on any real meaning. It derives its meaning and usefulness from the quality of that which it symbolizes.”

A number of years ago I asked myself why I barrack for Carlton. I came up with three reasons …

1. When I was seven I was taken to my first game of football. It was Carlton vs Fitzroy at VFL Park in 1979 and I said on the day that whoever wins the game I will support for the rest of my life. Carlton won.
2. Following the above, as we all know Carlton had a very successful run in the late 70s/early 80s, even into the late 80’s and partially into the early/mid 90s, and all of this success solidified my passion for the club. By 1987 I was hooked.
3. A combination of Point 2 above, and the unique branding (substantially driven by the CFC logo), the result of which was the brand of Carlton became burnt into my being, like a brand burnt onto a horses hind.

Recently, in fact as far back as a few months ago, I started to question again why I barrack for Carlton. I thought at the time this was just a philosophical summer-time pondering (as opposed to one borne from a sense the club is completely shit). I always backed Mick Malthouse, because unlike Denis Pagan he had shown he could adapt and win a premiership at another club late in his career (something I don’t believe any coach has done for a long, long time, if ever??), and after all the club did win a final – granted they were included in the finals series under the strangest of circumstances.

But now it appears things have gone pear shaped. The club have gone 0-3, have just had their worst game for about 7 years, and Mick’s recent win/loss ratio at Carlton is decidedly poor. Mick was supposed to get results in Year 2, and they aren’t coming – in fact things seem to be going backwards at a rate of knots.

All of which brings me back to the branding side of things. The quote above suggests a logo (and by extension a brand) derives its meaning and usefulness from the quality of that which it symbolizes. Well from where I sit the CFC hasn’t delivered quality for some time, and seems to be getting worse, not just on the field but off the field too – memberships are down vis a vis the other top clubs, recruiting has been a disaster, communications has been inept, so on and so on.

Recently, for the first time since I was 19 and hedonistically enjoying my teenage years, I have found myself caring less and less about the club. I don’t go to games any more. I don’t buy membership any more. I don’t watch the whole game on TV if we are going to lose. I don’t watch the Fox footy shows any more. I am far more interested in my SFC Forty Niners than the Blues. For me the club is becoming less relevant. The very essence of the club, what it stands for, its brand, is starting to evaporate for me.

It is more than just me turning 40 and starting to appreciate the game for the game and in turn having less attachment to a particular team...

It is all driven by a lack of quality.

All and sundry have touched on this in many threads and posts on this site in recent times.

To my mind things are now getting very serious. If I am losing my love and connection to the club, others must be too.

I don’t know what to do.

I know the fish does rot at the head. And in my view Kernahan needs to step down sooner than later. The time is now, not at the end of the year. And some of our cashed up fans need to make a stand, and do a better job of running the club.

How can we, as arguably the most die hard of fans, hasten this process? Maybe an online petition? (forgive me if this has already been suggested).

Isn't it time for action not words?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:36 pm 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:16 pm
Posts: 481
I read your article and I am very sad that you feel that way.What is it about Carlton supporters ,when we win we are rapt when we lose badly no love for the club( sack the board,the coach, Swan etc .We should take a good look at ourselves as supporters ,Richmond,St.Kilda ,Western Bulldogs ,Scum and Filth follow their team through thick and thin. We are a pack of sooks Our supporters are pathetic ,if our team was like Bitchmond has been the last 30 years we would be lucky to have 20000 members.Wake up all of you look how the druggie supporters rallied around the club.I am ashamed of our supporters but not the club or the players :mad: I love this club and i will be member forever and a day through thick +thin.45YEARS A MEMBER


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:44 pm 
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formerly Virgin Blue

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:40 am
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I understand what you're saying but believe me it is not about winning premierships every year

It is about the club performing well, as a professionally run, up-to-speed orgn, and giving us the best chance we can get onfield - if we get lucky with a good list and good game plan and win a flag then that would be great

We don't seem to be doing that in my opinion

We seem to be behind the times, and making the same mistake over and over again

I can handle making finals, top four, losing a GF so long as we gave it our best as an orgn


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:46 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: In the box.
hotspur wrote:
I read your article and I am very sad that you feel that way.What is it about Carlton supporters ,when we win we are rapt when we lose badly no love for the club( sack the board,the coach, Swan etc .We should take a good look at ourselves as supporters ,Richmond,St.Kilda ,Western Bulldogs ,Scum and Filth follow their team through thick and thin. We are a pack of sooks Our supporters are pathetic ,if our team was like Bitchmond has been the last 30 years we would be lucky to have 20000 members.Wake up all of you look how the druggie supporters rallied around the club.I am ashamed of our supporters but not the club or the players :mad: I love this club and i will be member forever and a day through thick +thin.45YEARS A MEMBER

Carlton was never about being a StKilda.
Its been relegated to that kind of status.
Following Carlton had a pride attached to it.
Its been run into the ground... and its not about ups and downs anymore.
Its just downs.

Even StKilda when they rose had a decade of prelims and gfs to contest
We had 2 eliminational finals wins and then back down.

No this is not the Carlton i knew...
this is some other club....

the colours might be the same.. the song is the same.. the soul of the club isnt....

I reckon there is no team that reeks of emptiness of soul as much as us right now...

I think its not just about the onfield stuff.. its about what this club has become.
There is nothing fresh or exciting... its stale and old as well as crap

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:02 pm 
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formerly Virgin Blue

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Kernahan said 3 flags in 5 years didn't he?

Who's to blame then? Mick would say Sticks & Co are as they overrated the list.

If so then Sticks should resign immediately. He is the head and he has presided over this ineptness.

Herein lies the problem - at what point are the board accountable? Most fans don't know a football from a tampon.
Some of us, who frequent websites like TC, know there are serious problems, an erosion of the greatness that used to be this club

Not enough fans will pound the doors demanding change


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:08 pm 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:16 pm
Posts: 481
Hi Synbad
As members ,what do you really want us to do ,not be a member and cruclfy the club any more.not go to games ,not buy merchandise.We whinge whinge whinge but do zilch about it .I am not happy what the club stands for but the last thing I want is to see the club suffer.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:12 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:05 pm
Posts: 358
Sunday Night was an aberration.
I haven't felt like walking out at 3/4 time in a very long time.
My concern is that showed something like this at The Sydney final.

If we don't make in roads in round 5 I think we'll be in for a long season.
Too many players doing things in junk time when the games well over.

No depth and a near full salary cap means big changes again at the end of the year.

I do agree our mob can be a bunch of sooks.
We've had it good to long and won't accept failure.
Well guess, what we may have completely failed and peaked in the West Coast semi.

The two best Key position players in the last 13-14 years were rookies- pretty flowering embarrassing.

I've seen too much sh!t from these guys to have any faith.

It's only round 3 and I've lost faith. Next few games will tell us where we really are as a club.

If we don't do much in the next 3-4 as much as pains me it's season over.
It does make me feel better that the board excepts it may be time for a rebuild.
Interesting month ahead.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:27 pm 
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formerly Virgin Blue

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hotspur wrote:
Hi Synbad
As members ,what do you really want us to do ,not be a member and cruclfy the club any more.not go to games ,not buy merchandise.We whinge whinge whinge but do zilch about it .I am not happy what the club stands for but the last thing I want is to see the club suffer.


You don't get it, at least you don't get me

It is attachment to brand (club) = dedication, ie: buying memberships and caps and shit

But if the club continues to be run into the ground, it's value proposition (quality) diminishes, and fans/members slowly drop off.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:33 pm 
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formerly Virgin Blue

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Maybe I am different to St.K fans

I become attached to something that is good, that is quality

I don't walk down the road and see a piece of dog shit and grow attached to it

Doesn't have to be premierships every year. I know we were spoilt back in the 70s/80s.

But it needs to be well run, to give us a chance, surely that is all a fan should ask for

But it's not well run, and the people running this goon show need to be made accountable


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:20 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:27 am
Posts: 308
Sugarcane wrote:
hotspur wrote:
Hi Synbad
As members ,what do you really want us to do ,not be a member and cruclfy the club any more.not go to games ,not buy merchandise.We whinge whinge whinge but do zilch about it .I am not happy what the club stands for but the last thing I want is to see the club suffer.


You don't get it, at least you don't get me

It is attachment to brand (club) = dedication, ie: buying memberships and caps and shit

But if the club continues to be run into the ground, it's value proposition (quality) diminishes, and fans/members slowly drop off.



I get what you are saying totally sugarcane. What does carlton stand for? winning? no, leadership? can say no there, never giving up, no thats north. We used to be the leaders we were hated because of our arrogance and because we were good. We are now the laughing stock of the AFL, other supporters are rubbing their hands with glee and celebrating our demise, WHAT is our club doing about it? Dont see any changes so far


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:40 pm 
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Laurie Kerr
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Posts: 135
I've lurked around these parts, as well as BigFooty, for quite some time now and without wanting to get anyone offside with my very first post, it all seems like you've become detached because we're not particularly good at the moment.

Will the same happen to your passion for the 49ers when they inevitably experience a poor run of things?

Your initial statement regarding the current, long deteriorating state of the brand is a very valid one, more valid than the 'I've lost my passion for the Club since we've not been winning most weeks' inference of the rest of your post.

We've always been a club short on patience and big on throwing the chequebook at whatever our problem of the day might be. Don't think for one second the Club sits down at the end of one season and plans to slide backwards the next. Although it being not by design doesn't excuse the final outcome, I think it important to note the Club want to get better, they want to return to the heady days of yore... but they've made mistakes.

Now, I don't excuse the regularity or routine of some of these mistakes, no siree, but sometimes you look at the competition dispassionately and think there are 18 clubs in this league, 3-4 of which can realistically win a premiership each season, only one of them will. Success is dictated as much by circumstance and luck as it is good forward planning and execution. We've had none of the former and been unable to produce the latter.

But, no, I digress, the intial strain of your post is a very, very valid one. One that people need to start looking at closely. What is our brand and where are we taking it.

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Whatever happened to this club
I wish I understood
We used to be so strong
We used to be so good


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:41 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25069
Location: Bondi Beach
2014 is our 150th Anniversary.
Pretty important year.
We've known about it for 150 years.
Kerna has had a decade to build up to this celebration of brand Carlton and its glorious and rich history.
Have a look what the leader of the club has dished up. Him and his inept Board.

The club's history resonates with me, but that's the past.

During 1996 and 2001 we didnt win flags but were respected. We were seen as winners.
We were the Phoenix.

Come 2002 and we hit rock bottom....cheats caught red handed. Broke. Penalised on top of that.
What did that do to the brand? Brand cheats. Brand losers. Brand cant buy a flag even when we cheat.
We've had a decade plus to rise from the dead, and where are we?
3 zip.

Gibbs has all the media attention (a mate of our President) for the wrong reasons.
What does that do for our brand? Zilch.

Our BIG 150th Anniversary and we havent hit the same number of members as the previous nothing year.
What does that say about the brand?

Sorry to say this hotspur, and I love your loyalty, but what are we being loyal to these days? The past!
Time for a clean out and for the Board and President to be stoned. I'm not sticking fat with them.
Look at what they've done to my club, the brand.
My kids are really upset.

There is no excuse for Kerna and the Board. None. They've had more than a decade to get this very important (once every 150 years) right....and look at what they give us.

I'd rather have a successful respected club with 20000 members than have 50000 members and our brand hit rock bottom.
The footy world does not respect what we stand for. I'm losing respect too because 10 years of lies and failure doesnt really excite me.
I dont want another 10 years of this, nor do I want it for my kids. I dont want to have a Melbourne, Footscray and StKilda experience.
Histpry tells me we are on the very same road us them.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:50 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:01 pm
Posts: 2099
What can I say, love this club, love the town, hate what's going on now, just feel so helpless.

Whatever, I'll continue to support the club financially, just feel that deserting the sinking ship is not the answer and I so want my kids to experience the aura of the navy blues again. The place won't get better without a reasonable financial base to start with.

We've been great before, I'm sure we can be great again (hopefully even greater), but we have to accept that the path won't be easy.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:28 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14986
I have been lucky enough to have grown up during an era where Carlton were a powerhouse and i have personally seen us win 5 flags. This last decade has been foreign to me, watching Carlton struggle is something new.
I am as disappointed as everyone else with what has happened to our club, something most of us saw coming.
I will continue to go to games, pay my membership but i too have lost the passion i had.
Its not just because we are struggling, i felt it before the season.
The constant rule changes, FA, the new expansion clubs are some reasons why i dont love footy like i once did. Its not much Carlton that i am losing interest in but AFL in general.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:36 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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When it comes to football clubs "Brand" is an inane concept.

"Quality" is a useful concept.

We could use a little less relying on the former and a little more embracing the latter.

"Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" should be required reading for all board members about now.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:39 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Location: Brisbane
Synbad wrote:
hotspur wrote:
I read your article and I am very sad that you feel that way.What is it about Carlton supporters ,when we win we are rapt when we lose badly no love for the club( sack the board,the coach, Swan etc .We should take a good look at ourselves as supporters ,Richmond,St.Kilda ,Western Bulldogs ,Scum and Filth follow their team through thick and thin. We are a pack of sooks Our supporters are pathetic ,if our team was like Bitchmond has been the last 30 years we would be lucky to have 20000 members.Wake up all of you look how the druggie supporters rallied around the club.I am ashamed of our supporters but not the club or the players :mad: I love this club and i will be member forever and a day through thick +thin.45YEARS A MEMBER



No this is not the Carlton i knew...


the colours might be the same.. the song is the same..



Is it? :grin:

_________________
THEY LIKE TO SEND UP!!!!!!!!

Until each team plays each other the same number of times, the AFL, as a fair dinkum competition, cannot be taken seriously.

He (Mr Swann) said the honour and pride associated with the club's traditional navy blue jumper was priceless.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:51 pm 
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Bruce Comben
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I want the Carlton Brand to replicate Kade Simpson's qualities - Honest, hard working, strong leadership, tough, uncompromising and doesn't take short cuts.

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Simmo - the true spirit of Carlton


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:33 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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My first game was Barassi's 50th and so have been lucky enough to have seen 8 premierships and enjoy the loathing and respect-through-gritted-teeth from opposition supporters.

When I was younger I really looked forward to the idea of taking my kids to watch the Blues like I did with my father and sisters. Now my youngest is 10, not interested in going
to a game, hardly interested in the result and tells me "Nobody barracks for Carlton".

I am sick of what Kernahan and his bunch of self-serving b@$tard mates on the Board have done to my club.

But what is worse is that I have no idea what to do about it.

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Carlton - Nothing's changed
I still love you, oh, I still love you
Only slightly, only slightly less
Than I used to, my love


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:39 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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GodisNavyBlue wrote:
But what is worse is that I have no idea what to do about it.


That makes you like many of us.

We should form a club or something...

_________________
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:44 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:54 pm
Posts: 2251
BlueGuru wrote:
I want the Carlton Brand to replicate Kade Simpson's qualities - Honest, hard working, strong leadership, tough, uncompromising and doesn't take short cuts.


As long as it doesn't include kicks a point when we desperately need a goal I agree


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