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RESTRUCTURE
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33214
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Author:  gride [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  RESTRUCTURE

Had a read of many pages covering various topics about playing kids etc....

The point that has been missed is MM is on a performance based deal.....Top 8 attracts bonus and most likely top 4 and GF add more to the overall package.
without stating the obvious he's not about to give up on the mature option until all hope is gone.
Given that the list is a total shambles I'd be hoping the club would look at a restructure of his package. By that I infer that he needs the backing of the board to do a top down review and restructure without the pressure to meet short sighted goals.
Mick's KPI need to be reset and a longer term rebuild of ALL facets of the footy dept implemented.
Straight out performance bonus's are regrettably a major incentive to adopt a short sighted rebuild.

History is filled with CEO's that hollowed out major enterprises to meet short term KPIs and generate themselves a bonus to the detriment of the underlying business.

Author:  kingkerna [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RESTRUCTURE

not a bad theory, but that would mean he has been coaching to win, haven't seen too much evidence of that

Author:  redback [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RESTRUCTURE

kingkerna wrote:
not a bad theory, but that would mean he has been coaching to win, haven't seen too much evidence of that


Theory or excuse? :screwy:

It's not about win/loss it's about the process, the process of the excuse. :lol:

Author:  Rexy [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RESTRUCTURE

How do we know he even wants to do a list rebuild ?

He might be thinking to himself 'WTF have I done taking on this basketcase of a club?'

He might develop a health issue and have to retire... ?

Author:  kingkerna [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RESTRUCTURE

Can we get Ratts back if that happens?

Or even better, go through a process to select the best candidate?

Author:  bluegirl72 [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RESTRUCTURE

Rexy wrote:
How do we know he even wants to do a list rebuild ?

He might be thinking to himself 'WTF have I done taking on this basketcase of a club?'

He might develop a health issue and have to retire... ?

...
I hear Roosy might be available. :grin:

Author:  The Normal One [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RESTRUCTURE

Rexy wrote:
How do we know he even wants to do a list rebuild ?

He might be thinking to himself 'WTF have I done taking on this basketcase of a club?'

He might develop a health issue and have to retire... ?


If he wants to hit his 'bonuses' then he has no choice but to rebuild.

The term rebuild doesn't always mean kids in the draft though. MM can target X number of players already in the system within the certain age bracket to hasten that process.

Author:  SurreyBlue [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RESTRUCTURE

Yes - lets give Malthouse 5 years unconditional :!: :yikes:

Author:  Michael Jezz [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RESTRUCTURE

King Kerna,

I don't see how you can justify your baseless criticism of malthouse. You refer to his age in derogatory terms as if his experience is somehow a disadvantage. You call for the worst coach in Carlton's post 1964 history, Brett Ratten to be reinstated. You call for a process to choose a coach, which may be warranted but had that occured last year it was a choice between Hinkley and Malthhouse. It is not as if we ended up with a fourth rate option per the appointment of Ratten. Malthouse has generated 9 wins with a substandard list and no stars. There isn't a best player in the comp, brownlow medalist, a coleman medalist, and a solid group of 22 year olds that his predecessor inherited. Malthouse had no ability to rebuild this list last year due to long term contracts and salary cap pressures. Malthouse has faced reality quickly and has flagged list turnover using 4 channels of recruitment: draft, free agency, trading and overseas players. His time starts next year and he needs 3 years to make the list his own. That is over a full season less than the "fair go" Ratten was given. Hardwick, Bomber Thompson & Hird have been given the benefit of time to generate success. Cup-a-soup permierships where you just "add water" are not a reality. You can already see an emphasis on defenseive pressure, some form of gameplan and a willingness to try players in different positions. These elements have been sorely lacking since the Parkin years. MM may never win a premiership at Carlton but if he can lay the foundation just as Walls did at Brisbane, it would be a triumph. Give the coach ago and enjoy the ride.

Author:  kingkerna [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RESTRUCTURE

I don't know where to start in critisising your comments so I'll do it the annoying way...................

Quote:
I don't see how you can justify your baseless criticism of malthouse. You refer to his age in derogatory terms as if his experience is somehow a disadvantage. where have I said his experience is his disadvantage?? You call for the worst coach in Carlton's post 1964 history WB and DP say thanks for that, Brett Ratten to be reinstated I was joking by the way. You call for a process to choose a coach, which may be warranted but had that occured last year it was a choice between Hinkley and Malthhouse best practice would still have been to go through a process. It is not as if we ended up with a fourth rate option per the appointment of Ratten. Malthouse has generated 9 wins with a substandard list and no stars so did our worst coach since 64' according to you, wow, thanks for the great wins Mick. There isn't a best player in the comp, brownlow medalist,aren't they one and the same? a coleman medalist yeah he was a great one to ineherit, and a solid group of 22 year olds that his predecessor inherited. Malthouse had no ability to rebuild this list last year due to long term contracts and salary cap pressures is that why he hasn't given many players a true chance in the seniors?. Malthouse has faced reality quickly and has flagged list turnover using 4 channels of recruitment: draft, free agency, trading and overseas players. His time starts next year how strange, I thought he started this year and he needs 3 years to make the list his own. That is over a full season less than the "fair go" Ratten was given. Hardwick, Bomber Thompson & Hird have been given the benefit of time to generate success. Cup-a-soup permierships where you just "add water" are not a reality. You can already see an emphasis on defenseive pressure really? Got stats to back that up via scores against?, some form of gameplan urgh kill me now and a willingness to try players in different positions you mean like swapping Yarran and Walker?. These elements have been sorely lacking since the Parkin years. MM may never win a premiership at Carlton but if he can lay the foundation just as Walls did at Brisbane, it would be a triumph. Give the coach ago and enjoy the ride. Enjoy what ride?



Author:  kingkerna [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RESTRUCTURE

can I just add that those solid group of 22 year olds would now be what, 25,26??? Why aren't they any good now?

How many players have gone forwards in terms of development and how many have not under the premiership coach? Make a list, pretty depressing.

Author:  Sydney Blue [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RESTRUCTURE

Malthouse = Denis Pagan

meaning 5 more years of misery

Author:  woof [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RESTRUCTURE

gride wrote:
Had a read of many pages covering various topics about playing kids etc....

The point that has been missed is MM is on a performance based deal.....Top 8 attracts bonus and most likely top 4 and GF add more to the overall package.
without stating the obvious he's not about to give up on the mature option until all hope is gone.
Given that the list is a total shambles I'd be hoping the club would look at a restructure of his package. By that I infer that he needs the backing of the board to do a top down review and restructure without the pressure to meet short sighted goals.
Mick's KPI need to be reset and a longer term rebuild of ALL facets of the footy dept implemented.
Straight out performance bonus's are regrettably a major incentive to adopt a short sighted rebuild.

History is filled with CEO's that hollowed out major enterprises to meet short term KPIs and generate themselves a bonus to the detriment of the underlying business.


I suggest under the performance criteria for his contract a one line sentence should suffice;

The Earth is slow but the Ox is patient

Author:  Sugarcane [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RESTRUCTURE

gride wrote:
Had a read of many pages covering various topics about playing kids etc....

The point that has been missed is MM is on a performance based deal.....Top 8 attracts bonus and most likely top 4 and GF add more to the overall package.
without stating the obvious he's not about to give up on the mature option until all hope is gone.
Given that the list is a total shambles I'd be hoping the club would look at a restructure of his package. By that I infer that he needs the backing of the board to do a top down review and restructure without the pressure to meet short sighted goals.
Mick's KPI need to be reset and a longer term rebuild of ALL facets of the footy dept implemented.
Straight out performance bonus's are regrettably a major incentive to adopt a short sighted rebuild.

History is filled with CEO's that hollowed out major enterprises to meet short term KPIs and generate themselves a bonus to the detriment of the underlying business.


Interesting thought but I don't buy it

At Coll he played kids when they were ready, and I don't think Menzel and Bucks fall into that category. Maybe Graham does but that's about it.

Fans keep screaming for the kids to get games, but reality is Bucks hardly got near it in his debut, Troy missed most of the pre season so gently it goes with him, Boots has been given games, as has Levi , and Bell is a turnover merchant

Lucas has been played every game and Watson has got his chance now

Author:  Hornet [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RESTRUCTURE

kingkerna wrote:
Can we get Ratts back if that happens?

NO

kingkerna wrote:
Or even better, go through a process to select the best candidate?

Like we did for the Pres? :lol:

We don't roll that way... we are Carlton... @#$%&! the rest

Author:  moshe25 [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RESTRUCTURE

kingkerna wrote:
Can we get Ratts back if that happens?.....

I'll start barracking for Essendon* and get a jumper with the number 4 on it.

Author:  GWS [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RESTRUCTURE

moshe25 wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
Can we get Ratts back if that happens?.....

I'll start barracking for Essendon** and get a jumper with the number 4 on it.


...and get ready for season 2016.

Author:  kingkerna [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RESTRUCTURE

Sense of humour by pass boys?
As it is next season is as good as a write off though. I'll enjoy my weekends though, membership optional at the moment

Author:  CK95 [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RESTRUCTURE

Quote:
You call for a process to choose a coach, which may be warranted but had that occured last year it was a choice between Hinkley and Malthhouse



Hinkley would've been a great get :thumbsup:

Author:  DocSherrin III [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RESTRUCTURE

CK95 wrote:
Quote:
You call for a process to choose a coach, which may be warranted but had that occured last year it was a choice between Hinkley and Malthhouse



Hinkley would've been a great get :thumbsup:


They got him!

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