Consensus seems to be we don't have sufficient talent in our team right now or coming through to challenge for a flag.

So why is it so?

Are we crap at identifying the talent, or is it a case of having picked the right draftees but just have no idea how to develop them into a-graders?

Your thoughts?

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NOW YOU'RE JUST SOME CLUB THAT I USED TO KNOW.

Both. Years of mediocrity in both.

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"I had to eat"

I think it's a bit of both. We have made some very strange drafting decisions over the years. I believe we've hung onto players for too long when we must have known that they were'nt going to make it. Some of the players we've drafted have shocking skills and below average footy brains. Having said that our development of players has been well below the standard.

One spills over into the other. You cannot draft a kid with plenty of talent and then not develop them properly.

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Premierships: 1869, 1871, 1873, 1874, 1875, 1877, 1887, 1906, 1907, 1908, 1914, 1915, 1938, 1945, 1947, 1968, 1970, 1972, 1979, 1981, 1982, 1987, 1995.

"GIBBS."

More crop drafting but a combination of the two.

We have had high draft picks and rookie listed players become very good, which leads me to think its more crap drafting.

You've missed out on the refinement of game plan and it's impact on performance.

Malthouse has admitted that he has had to change his game style to suit the players more - that is still a work in progress. Atm we dont utilise our greatest strength (speed) often enough and imo, have over compensated on the need to be negative.

The mindset is wrong.

Good teams let other teams focus on defending against them rather than trying to shutdown as many opposition players as possible - 5 defensive tags against the swans was ridiculous. How many negative jobs did the swans run with? Over the past few yrs we've always had the ability to win enough ball from contests/clearances -> when we start backing ourselves in more often, we will be a lot better for it.

I accept that a large part of the above is all about the processes and figured that we wont really kick into gear until most of the season is done. Just need to hope we have enough wins by then.

Only other comment would be - FFS Mick, UNLEASH ARMFIELD!!!

Our problem has been our leadership on and off the ground.

When you haven’t got that it’s harder for the young ones to come in and learn, grow and make an impact.
They need time to mature and when you don’t have seniors to cover their mistakes, defend them and allow them to grow into their natural game with confidence they will struggle for longer and sometimes even fade.

It’s no coincidence how the top teams youngsters develop faster than the rest.
The problem then arises how to consistently incorporate new blood without upsetting the balance of the team, but one thing at a time.

If you take last nights post match press conference as a guide - MM suggests we simply lack midfield depth when compared to the swans.

I buy into that vs our bias for athletic HBFs

Yes you can

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"I had to eat"

Forgot sorry, Carlton has been doing it for years!

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Premierships: 1869, 1871, 1873, 1874, 1875, 1877, 1887, 1906, 1907, 1908, 1914, 1915, 1938, 1945, 1947, 1968, 1970, 1972, 1979, 1981, 1982, 1987, 1995.

"GIBBS."

Its more attitude than anything - these players don't mind losing they are used to it

when all the players from the spoon years are gone we might be competitive again

If there are any stats gurus out there I love to know how many players played both in spoon sides and went on to win grand finals in the same side - don't think there would be many

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

I think the 2011 draft was an abject disaster. Three talls, none of whom have had any impact at all.
We desperately need one of them to step out of mediocrity and play a lot of footy for the club but I can't see it.

We obviously got Judd thinking he would lead the midfield into a premiership within his time but history will show it was a wasted trade and we would have done better with Kennedy and pick 3.

We will end up like StKilda but worse. At least they got to a few GFs with Reiwoldt, Kosi and Goddard. We aren't anywhere near it.

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

Many of the Brisbane Lions from their spoon in 1998 played in their flags of the early 2000s.

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Premierships: 1869, 1871, 1873, 1874, 1875, 1877, 1887, 1906, 1907, 1908, 1914, 1915, 1938, 1945, 1947, 1968, 1970, 1972, 1979, 1981, 1982, 1987, 1995.

"GIBBS."

In all my time on this forum that is possibly the dumbest thing i have read.
Judd came to this club as the best player in the game and has transformed our thinking and culture with his professionalism in the space of one year as soon as he arrived.
Guys were lazy, unprofessional and even there training and eating habits where from the 70's.
The club culture was lead by Fev which says it all really.
The problem we had is that the club coach was hell bent on a game plan that was all about him and as such has burnt him out within 7 years.
Our recruiting in this period of TALLS has been invisible. Off the top of my head we have had the chance to draft Carlise, Black,Vardy and Darling.
Now imagine we had 1 or even 2 of the above then our posistion would be much different.
To say the Judd trade was a mistake is insane and silly IMO.
ps: we also nabbed a bloke named Armfield in that deal who is a handy player.

agree

How people still question this is beyond me

On top of that he is still in our top three players from what I saw on Friday night

When we traded for Judd I think the expectations were for a bit more than one finals win during his time here. Now that he's nearing the end of his career, its only natural for people to question that trade.

Ironically we question why we have not drafted any good tall forwards... Kennedy?

If we needed Judd to teach our players not to eat burgers etc. then that speaks volumes about our coaches and development staff at the time.

Now I love Judd at Carlton... but I do ask myself 'what if' at times.

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“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard Feynman

You could delete most of Synbad's rants and replace them with this one sentence.

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"our electorate seeks less to be informed and more to be validated." Sad times.

Could have picked up Talia instead of Lucas and released Henderson forward

I don't think he is a world beater but Kennedy could have stagnated at Carlton, who knows

What ifs could go on endlessly

None of this has anything to do with Judd

As a club we have been poor for too long now

Nothing at all wrong with the Judd deal. Blame the crap drafting, player development and coaching after that for our lack of finals excess. I still believe we would have lost the likes of Murphy and Gibbs if Judd had not got Judd.

I meant finals success, definitely wasn't excess.