I am not talking about getting rid of the rabble. I know we cant trade them because they are rabble and contracted. I am talking about changing the face of the team to build one that has the steel to stand up in big games. Lose a good player and gain another good player with a different personality and skillset. We are just banging our heads against a wall year after year otherwise.

One too many rucks on big contracts. One too many small forwards that can't play long enough in the midfield because of their lack of tank on reasonably contracts. Soft wingmen from interstate. Some of the HBFers. The guys who Mick identified through watching video after video as the ones who go into their shells when things get tough.

Mick could have got a start on that last October. He will do it this October. Wasted 12 months in this regard.

The bottom 10 no one wants and the high profile aren't good enough for MM to coach.
Ratts was better than I thought then taking this list to finals.[/quote]

Well, this is Rattens list of underachievers and his over reliance on one man to get us over the line time and time again without looking to the future has finally broken him , Judd is worn out from carrying the side for the past 4 years. A shell of a man and their is no one their to carry the responsibility and lift the team when we need it.

Finals on the back of one man without a view to the future, incompetence of the highest order!!

Hmmm .. you can't even make a finals series just relying on 1 man ... so obviously that was not the case. I think we are about to find out exactly where MM stands as a coach. I have absolutely no confidence in him.

When you see how MM coached on Friday ... I would say that is incompetence of the highest order!!

_________________
I am as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!!!

Agree with most of your comments, but his hands were tied in some respect with the negligence of our football dept and Ratts giving out contracts like we had an endless pit of salary space to duds.

It is hard to see everything from a video, he needed to know how they tick on a weekly basis some he has improved some just don't get it, those that don't after 22 rounds (or sooner by the looks of it) will be traded or delisted.

He will not cut corners!!!

I don't have an issue with Mick not taking a machete to the list last year. Why? Because he couldn't.

We brilliantly stitched everyone up to contracts so we didn't have any kind of room to move with FA.

We then took it one step further and overpaid blokes, so even if we wanted to trade, other clubs wouldn't pick up the tab.

So how exactly is Malthouse supposed to turn the list over under those circumstances.

I love it. JUST TRADE THEM, people say. It takes two to tango. If we're going to be stupid offering multi year deals to 25-35 on the list (re-signs that is, not new draftees), why should smarter clubs want to take that on? the club has taken on the bare minimum new draftees two years running. That's not the new coach's fault, no matter how some on here seem to want it to be. I wouldn't be surprised if someone drew out a stat which showed we have had the most stagnant list in the league the last few years. from the outside looking in it seems we urgently need an expert in whose sole focus is the makeup and management of the list. I'm not sure if MacKay is up to it. Maybe it's premature to land last year's contractual debacle at his feet, but surely he's got to be on notice now to have us operating a bit smarter.

I don't think there's many players who have played senior footy prior to this season who Mick hasn't given a go this year.

I have no doubt he will turn as many over now as is possible to replace in one off season.

All that said;

We've been in a position to win every game this year. I don't think talent is the key deficiency, otherwise we wouldn't get to the positions in games to close the deal. It's clearly mindset, and I can only hope it will be mindset that will be what we are looking for in both rookies and trade/FA targets. that and maybe being smart like Sydney and having specific players in mind to be recruited/traded for specific roles.

All good points but there were some players they could have traded. Players on normal contracts that other clubs would be interested in.
Mix it up. Don't lose talent just swap it for a different talent with a view to making us less fragile.

Us getting close but losing isn't new. Playing crap for 3 quarters then turning it on at the end to just lose is not new. Getting overrun after playing for 3 quarters well isn't new. The whole football world knows how we roll. Malthouse should not be applauded for getting us to continue these traits.

Rattens list that played 3 finals out of five years from a basket case.
MM the super (expensive/rated/experienced) coach needs to rebuild Rattens list in order to achieve the same outcome?

Club - Who are the players we could have traded? And if you don't know the answer to that question, how do you know they're not some of the players contributing at career best levels this year? e.g. Garlett, who there were rumors about (and to be honest who I was questioning last year and wouldn't have been upset to see him go). It's too easy to demand the club to trade. They're not operating in a vacuum.

How is Mick supposed to know who might be putty in his hands, and who might be a glass pane ready to shatter?

I don't think anyone on this board had AW moving back to the HBF and playing out of his mind and being happy to do so.

What would have been great, when Mick was getting ready to sign with the club, would have been for McKay to say to him -

Mick, we've got 8 players coming off contract, our potential commitment to them is $xxx. Is there anyone out there who we might be able to go for this year so I can get the ball rolling and see how the numbers stack up. I'll hold off signing these blokes until we've got a better idea on who we might be able to get in.

But of course that conversation wouldn't have taken place because McKay was culpable -to some degree or another -of signing them all up months prior and putting us in a straight jacket.

I'm not applauding Malthouse for anything. I think the time to judge Malthouse is 15 months from now. I am somewhat encouraged by what I have seen this year, to be honest. We've seen some of the developing, marginalised, unstable (in terms of playing positions) players settle and play some great footy. We've seen older more talented players struggle. Understandable - they were probably in a comfort zone which has been challenged. They'll either get with the program or join another program.

Someone has to be responsible for our fragile mindset in games. I think we all know it now that it wasn't only Ratts. A coach could work out who the players are. I would have put up a ruck, maybe two, I would have shopped Jamison around (top player but injury prone), Yaz, Betts, Robbo, Lucas or Simpson. Just do what it took to rejig the outfit. Unless we all like it when we bully a low team more than we like beating top teams. I would not have done trades that were a loss and I would not have traded all of those names but stuff could have been done to balance our list, get us some steel and add some personalities to the team that perhaps would thrive when it gets tough.

Personally,I would have done half the stuff Malthouse is going to do this preseason last pre season.

_________________
I am as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!!!

Is this turning into another SAKC MICK! GET RATTS BACK! type of thread?

No, get rid of the dead wood and tinker with the top 30 to go to the next step, top 4 , but if you like to sit around the 8 and make up the numbers and win the occasional final so be it, that is your expectation but it certainly is not mine.

How? If other teams weren't interested to trade, how? You can't just delist players who have a contract. at least not without still having their contract on the books, and we had no cap space to carry any contracts.

club I think your (understandable) anger is misplaced. Not sure Mick can do anything this year but work with what was left to him and start the cull this year.

Not at all, just do the job he was hired to do for great expense.

Turn this middle of the road team into a better team.
If he is so well credentialed with a great record and worthy of exterminating a senior coach’s contract that has taken a rabble for last into the top eight with these players then he should be able to take the extra step with the same list or is that too much to ask for.
At the end of the year I don’t give a rats who he keeps or who he loses as long as we take the next step...

On the back of Judd. He ran judd i to the ground. the competition moved on.
We have no leadership... we have no mids... we do have hbfer types... and Ratts will never coach again....

You guys make me crack up.......!!!

Wish time stood still... but opposition didnt sleep while we drafted and traded for hbfers ... and our main mids are dead.
Scotland
Judd and Simmo... all on the other side..

yes we replacng them with rookies....

thats a smart plan!!!

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

yes he willl..... i never saw such urgency in 5 years under ratts,,,

five years!!!

not a peep from you

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

_________________
I am as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!!!

Don't worry Synbad ... we always have the 10 year MM plan.. There have been some classic coaching stuff ups so far this year ... thankfully we have Robert Wiley who seems to know what he is doing. Anyway ... it looks like the seasons a write off. Pathetic performance by the super duper coach.

_________________
I am as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!!!

there' s no comparison between the teams current performance and the performance under Ratts. there's no doubt the team is performing more consistently under MM. Ratts had the luxury of a Judd in peak form. Dare say had Ratts been coaching this year the record would be far worse, and had MM had the same Judd w'd be a level above where we are now. This year Judd has been as much of a liability as he's been serviceable.

Not disagreeing with your point trigger.
Yes by all means cull and create at year’s end but a new coach has immediate affect on a playing group, it doesn’t take 12-18 months to go forward if you are half decent.
You have expected and accepted and the outcome for the year not I.
Ratten lost the group last year and had injuries to boot.
Malthouse has come in and basically hasn’t made a huge impact in our progress. Unlike some I don’t believe it takes time to assert your authority in demanding standards when you go to a new club especially with the reputation Malthouse has or the ideals he is expected to achieve.
Thus far he has failed in keeping us at the low standard we have been accustomed too in the last five years let alone increased them.