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Why are we so average?
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32989		 Page 1 of 9
Author:  Sugarcane [ Sun May 26, 2013 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Why are we so average?
Is it because it takes time to bed down a new game plan?

Is it because we lack true leaders?

Is it because we lack depth (aka shit recruitment)?

Is it because we have too many introverts? (related to point 2)

Is it because we have too many players who refuse to run both ways?

Is it because we only have a few quality KPPs?

Is it because of the board?

Is it because we are not on the juice?
Author:  Captain Dan [ Sun May 26, 2013 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are we so average?
- Even Malthouse said last night speaking after the game that they're still working things out. A new game-plan takes time, and a new coach learning his players will also take time...this doesn't happen in 9 rounds of footy.

- We have a dearth of KPP in our side. Granted Waite played well last night, but he's 30 and not going to be around forever. We also all know about his injury issues and suspension issues. Kreuzer is not a forward, though he is a better option than Hampson. Casboult needs to work on his kicking, and Rowe, while a good story, needs to work on a number of things. Our list will continue to be average until we address our tall forward problem.

- We lack a killer instinct. Last night when we were 32 points in front, it should've been burying time. Easy misses in front of goal kept the Lions in it, and they very nearly pinched it.
Author:  Andain [ Sun May 26, 2013 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are we so average?
We lack players with desire to succeed.
We don't have a team with a win at all costs mentality.
We don't have enough players who enjoy a physical contest.
We have an unbalanced list.
Author:  moshe25 [ Sun May 26, 2013 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are we so average?
We definitely don't lack introverts!!
Author:  Synbad [ Mon May 27, 2013 5:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are we so average?
Not too many competitive beasts on our list
Author:  keogh [ Mon May 27, 2013 6:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are we so average?
All of the above
Our recruiting has been below average
our player development has been very below average
our culture has been stuck in the past
that to me has been the biggest problem of all
that's what I like about MM
couldn't give a shit about Carlton's culture
Here's the list
he is ok he is not up to it
He wont be tied to Carlton's relic past in making decisions that effect the club's footy fortunes
what I hope is that MM will turf out quite a few list cloggers at the end of the year and make a play for a big key forward for starters

I think he has already put the pencil through a few players

he has a tough task after the mess of the last 11 years.

interesting times ahead
Author:  DocSherrin III [ Mon May 27, 2013 7:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are we so average?
Lack of leadership. It's all about the culture the leader creates, how he motivates and operates the team, and the kind of behavior his leadership style and management ability inspires in others.

When I say this to people, they say 'What about Chris Judd?'...and my reply is 'What about Chris Judd?' He's not a leader. He may be listed as a premiership Captain at West Coast and a Carlton Captain who 'led through his actions' but he did it extremely reluctantly. While he was exactly the player Carlton needed, he wasn't the leader Carlton needed. Coupled with this was a coach who was learning leadership on the job. Mates with the boys one day, schoolmaster to them the next.

Upstairs was a CEO and President who were too focused on pleasing everyone, they lacked the ability to realise that the leadership equation wasn't working. So for a five year period we had poor leadership at all levels. Of course, a team is composed of individuals with unique circumstances, experience, and capability. Some of that's manageable but it's by no means 100% controllable. But it is pliable. But at no stage were any of the layers of the Carlton leadership matrix correct.

If they were - we might be looking at a premiership window that was open now. Instead, the right bloke is probably in charge as head coach, but the ship has sailed. We're now looking at a mini rebuild. Off-field, that rebuild needs to happen too. A President who mirrors the leadership attributes of a CEO and coach. New President required, new CEO required. The position of Captain at the Carlton Football Club has never been more irrelevant as what it is now.

So we're average because the past has come back to bite us on the bum.
Author:  Synbad [ Mon May 27, 2013 7:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are we so average?
We are average because the people around the club are average.

weve just relied on being carlton.... the club is meant to look after everything... but the club cant... its a drone.. the people around the club are its drivers.

just average people and average thinking... people who cannot see the big picture.

its incredibly amazing to see this club and those around the club in action..... totally defensive.. apologists and deflectors of mediocrity.

they hate the spotllight shined on themselves and the club because it shows up all the flaws and cracks..

starts at the top .. sticks hates to be questioned.... he gets so defensive you might end up in fisty cuffs with the guy. :lol:

Thats the president.. a man who has been overlooking the race to the bottom and hates to be tested..... but its apparent all over the club and at every level.

deflectors of th e truth!!!... and were expecting on field to be any different and show some honesty????

get real!!!

ive gone on and on about whats wring with this footy club...the longer things remain the same the more obvious it all becomes and the more blatant our mediocrity is apparent .. shocking even me...!!!

Its just not the Carlton i was brought up on... hard to swallow all this.... im not a StKilda doggies supporter to accept and be comfortable following a mediocre club

yes we hit rock bottom.... we won one eliminational final.. and now we need a mini rebuild...that was our window... yes were average!!!!

People must come to achnowledge that.... when we do achnowledge it we might begin to take some steps forward...
at the moment .. we are in denial.. and we make excuse after excuse to make time in the hope something will change.

no logic... no plan... just hope, deflection, excuses......(and alot of pictures)

Youve even had a peek at some of the people around the club who are meant to be driving the club... the Pratt son in law fella.

Favourite Carlton moment???.. "Going to the footy with Dick" WTF???????.. is this guy for real???
"20 flags by 2020"

we have some real fruit loop trippers around the club

its a flower bubble!!!

This club has officially sought assylum and defected and deflected over to the other side of the iron curtain... the block of mediocrity!!!
Author:  dooky [ Mon May 27, 2013 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are we so average?
Synbad wrote:
We are average because the people around the club are average.

weve just relied on being carlton.... the club is meant to look after everything... but the club cant... its a drone.. the people around the club are its drivers.

just average people and average thinking... people who cannot see the big picture.

its incredibly amazing to see this club and those around the club in action..... totally defensive.. apologists and deflectors of mediocrity.

they hate the spotllight shined on themselves and the club because it shows up all the flaws and cracks..

starts at the top .. sticks hates to be questioned.... he gets so defensive you might end up in fisty cuffs with the guy. :lol:

Thats the president.. a man who has been overlooking the race to the bottom and hates to be tested..... but its apparent all over the club and at every level.

deflectors of th e truth!!!... and were expecting on field to be any different and show some honesty????

get real!!!

ive gone on and on about whats wring with this footy club...the longer things remain the same the more obvious it all becomes and the more blatant our mediocrity is apparent .. shocking even me...!!!

Its just not the Carlton i was brought up on... hard to swallow all this.... im not a StKilda doggies supporter to accept and be comfortable following a mediocre club

yes we hit rock bottom.... we won one eliminational final.. and now we need a mini rebuild...that was our window... yes were average!!!!

People must come to achnowledge that.... when we do achnowledge it we might begin to take some steps forward...
at the moment .. we are in denial.. and we make excuse after excuse to make time in the hope something will change.

no logic... no plan... just hope, deflection, excuses......(and alot of pictures)

Youve even had a peek at some of the people around the club who are meant to be driving the club... the Pratt son in law fella.

Favourite Carlton moment???.. "Going to the footy with Dick" WTF???????.. is this guy for real???
"20 flags by 2020"

we have some real fruit loop trippers around the club

its a flower bubble!!!

This club has officially sought assylum and defected and deflected over to the other side of the iron curtain... the block of mediocrity!!!


Yep Synners, the truth hurts...
Author:  The Normal One [ Mon May 27, 2013 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Why are we so average?
I've been thinking how to respond in this thread. In simple terms I think on-field being average is great in 2013, why?

Well I look at stats lists, voting systems and see a lack of Carlton anywhere really. That tells me that Malthouse is achieving his goal of reducing the reliance on our star quality, our on-field group is sharing the load, yet we are still in a good position to play finals without having set the world on fire.

Being average has us in the position that Ratts couldn't get past when our stars were fit and firing. If we were to win a final this year then I'd declare average pretty good, a great platform to build from with changes in the offseason to come.

Off-field I have no comment.
Author:  cimm1979 [ Mon May 27, 2013 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are we so average?
No club is good at everything.

IMO we are a much better club than 5 years ago but with some distance to go.

Looking at our coaching options I think we've made a good choice in getting a coach who will get what he wants. It's yet to be shown if what he wants is what we need but the alternative would be a Neeld/Dimmer/Harvey/Primus coach.

The culture if our playing list and the (alleged) poor quality of our administration would not allow for a new coach to take the reigns.

Normally, I'd say get the off field stuff right and that will get the onfield stuff right but for us it looks like we will need the footy dept to lift the quality of the rest of the club.
Author:  bosman [ Mon May 27, 2013 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are we so average?
Average??? won 5 of past 6 games.... 4 wins against interstate teams inc 2 away......... going ok....

Just need to stop the fade outs, kicking straight and stopping teams from kicking 2-3 goals in a row which ends up being 6-7...
Author:  dane [ Mon May 27, 2013 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are we so average?
This is getting really boring.
Author:  woof [ Mon May 27, 2013 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are we so average?
DocSherrin wrote:
Lack of leadership. It's all about the culture the leader creates, how he motivates and operates the team, and the kind of behavior his leadership style and management ability inspires in others.



I thought leading teams was going to fix this up? They were at the club for a while and it looks like we have nothing to show for it.
Author:  teknodeejay [ Mon May 27, 2013 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are we so average?
Finals will be a pass mark for Malthouse this year. There's some changing that needs to be done. Some players that are superfluous to needs and others that, after another pre-season, will help to get where we need to go.

We really could have had wins in every single one of our games. Whilst some wins haven't been pretty, some losses have been gettable. In the evenness of things, we're going okay.

The worst game by far was against St Kilda. Don't forget Brisbane did beat Essendon* so they aren't a completely crap side. Also had we converted our opportunities it would have been a 50 point win not 13...

Same story Port Adelaide.

Learn how to make them pay when we control the forward momentum... that's the biggest thing that's lacking.

Most teams will come at you at some stage in the game. Not many teams play 4 quarters of all-their-own-way footy each week.
Author:  bluehammer [ Mon May 27, 2013 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are we so average?
Kane Lucas.
Author:  Captain Dan [ Mon May 27, 2013 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are we so average?
bluehammer wrote:
Kane Lucas.

Harsh.

Lucas has been good more often than not this year. Saturday night he played well too.
Author:  grrofunger [ Mon May 27, 2013 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are we so average?
whoooosh
Author:  chubbyruss [ Mon May 27, 2013 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are we so average?
Too many can't kick a footy
Author:  Navy Blue Horse [ Mon May 27, 2013 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are we so average?
Wow. Imagine if we were 2-7.
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