TalkingCarlton :: View topic - The times they are a changin'

When Bob Dylan released this album in 1964, I doubt he was thinking about our club, but that year saw the recruitment of Ronald Dale Barassi to our club, and the change of VFL culture.

Sure, players and coaches had changed teams before, but it was George Harris' coup that brought a commercial reality to football that was a paradigm shift (to use a '90's cliche).

Carlton FC has been at the forefront of these changes, starting with my appointment as coach more than a century ago. We secured Brighton Diggins (South Melbourne) as coach, and even recruited the likes of Dan Minogue (Collingwood & Richmond), Percy Rowe (Collingwood) and Percy Bentley (Richmond) as coaches; all controversial appointments at their times.

But Barassi's crossing to our club was different, as it made changing clubs more acceptable, once the dust had settled.

In the same vein, I wonder whether the potential securing of Travis Cloke will be seen in the same light, in this new era of free agency. Maybe it won't happen, but the rumour mill is working overtime, and it will be a seismic shift in player and club culture should it happen.

The reason I write this is because I'm not sure if it's a good thing, a bad thing, or if it simply doesn't matter.

Many times on this site over the years I have seen ridicule of Rugby League and other codes for the way players change clubs mid-season, but continue to ply their trade for the team they've just forsaken. In AFL, we see this as an impossible scenario, but I wonder if Cloke comes to Carlton, it will yet again change the code's culture?

Maybe not, but I have a sinking feeling that the game's about to change more significantly than we might realise.

Spose its all about the theatre and entertainment these days. Run by suits. Feels nothing like the old days.

club29 wrote:

Spose its all about the theatre and entertainment these days. Run by suits. Feels nothing like the old days.

...you mean the old days when it was run by suits?

People have short memories, a lot more trading went on prior to the introduction of the draft in the mid 80s, now it will probably go back to that level.

I really don't think the world will end as we know it.

Glad we didn't have too many vice presidents back then

Adam Chatfield wrote:

Peter McKenna worked out well.

camelboy wrote:

Adam Chatfield wrote:

Peter McKenna worked out well.

I'll see your Peter McKenna and raise my Mick McGuane

kingkerna wrote:

Glad we didn't have too many vice presidents back then

You can never have too many Vice-Presidents...what if there's a 'football emergency'?

Author:	JackWorrall [ Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:	The times they are a changin'
When Bob Dylan released this album in 1964, I doubt he was thinking about our club, but that year saw the recruitment of Ronald Dale Barassi to our club, and the change of VFL culture. Sure, players and coaches had changed teams before, but it was George Harris' coup that brought a commercial reality to football that was a paradigm shift (to use a '90's cliche). Carlton FC has been at the forefront of these changes, starting with my appointment as coach more than a century ago. We secured Brighton Diggins (South Melbourne) as coach, and even recruited the likes of Dan Minogue (Collingwood & Richmond), Percy Rowe (Collingwood) and Percy Bentley (Richmond) as coaches; all controversial appointments at their times. But Barassi's crossing to our club was different, as it made changing clubs more acceptable, once the dust had settled. In the same vein, I wonder whether the potential securing of Travis Cloke will be seen in the same light, in this new era of free agency. Maybe it won't happen, but the rumour mill is working overtime, and it will be a seismic shift in player and club culture should it happen. The reason I write this is because I'm not sure if it's a good thing, a bad thing, or if it simply doesn't matter. Many times on this site over the years I have seen ridicule of Rugby League and other codes for the way players change clubs mid-season, but continue to ply their trade for the team they've just forsaken. In AFL, we see this as an impossible scenario, but I wonder if Cloke comes to Carlton, it will yet again change the code's culture? Maybe not, but I have a sinking feeling that the game's about to change more significantly than we might realise.

Author:	Juddy&theKruezers [ Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The times they are a changin'
JackWorrall wrote: When Bob Dylan released this album in 1964, I doubt he was thinking about our club, but that year saw the recruitment of Ronald Dale Barassi to our club, and the change of VFL culture. Sure, players and coaches had changed teams before, but it was George Harris' coup that brought a commercial reality to football that was a paradigm shift (to use a '90's cliche). Carlton FC has been at the forefront of these changes, starting with my appointment as coach more than a century ago. We secured Brighton Diggins (South Melbourne) as coach, and even recruited the likes of Dan Minogue (Collingwood & Richmond), Percy Rowe (Collingwood) and Percy Bentley (Richmond) as coaches; all controversial appointments at their times. But Barassi's crossing to our club was different, as it made changing clubs more acceptable, once the dust had settled. In the same vein, I wonder whether the potential securing of Travis Cloke will be seen in the same light, in this new era of free agency. Maybe it won't happen, but the rumour mill is working overtime, and it will be a seismic shift in player and club culture should it happen. The reason I write this is because I'm not sure if it's a good thing, a bad thing, or if it simply doesn't matter. Many times on this site over the years I have seen ridicule of Rugby League and other codes for the way players change clubs mid-season, but continue to ply their trade for the team they've just forsaken. In AFL, we see this as an impossible scenario, but I wonder if Cloke comes to Carlton, it will yet again change the code's culture? Maybe not, but I have a sinking feeling that the game's about to change more significantly than we might realise. The game significantly changed when we were allowed to bet on it....

Author:	DocSherrin III [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The times they are a changin'
I get what you're saying Jack, but to be honest with you, I don't see free agency changing the game a great deal because it's not a full embracing of free agency by the AFL and AFLPA, it's merely a dipping of the toes in the water. This is akin to the 10-year rule that enabled North Melbourne to win two flags in the 70's. Once we see a full embracing of free agency and trading rules then the game will change...but I don't see it happening for some time. By that I'm particularly referring to futures trading. e.g - St.Kilda trade their first round draft pick 2012 (#12) and first round draft pick 2013 to Gold Coast for player Josh Caddy and GC second round draft pick 2012. But the game will see some changes between 2016-2021. That's because their are some clubs who are being strategically and financially babysat by the AFL. One is North Melbourne. That is happening between 2011-2015. After that period, the clubs are on their own. They have a guidebook - but whether they adopt it and thrive and survive is another question. If they don't do it then, after being left to their own devices, then post 2021, I believe two Melbourne clubs will die, merge or relocate.

Author:	Synbad [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The times they are a changin'
At the end of the day.. there is still a salary cap

Author:	club29 [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The times they are a changin'
Malthouse at Carlton is enough to have me thinking football has completely jumped the shark. Cloke next...then a few years on one or two of our favourite sons will end up at Collingwood. Feels like we have merged with the Pies. Spose its all about the theatre and entertainment these days. Run by suits. Feels nothing like the old days.

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Author:	camel [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The times they are a changin'
Cloke = Barrassi? Yeah, nah. If it does happen it'll be big, but not that big. IMO Judd coming back to Melbourne was a bigger move/story. Such a shame Richmond were in the box seat.

Author:	DocSherrin III [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The times they are a changin'
club29 wrote: Spose its all about the theatre and entertainment these days. Run by suits. Feels nothing like the old days. ...you mean the old days when it was run by suits?

Author:	Blueboy74 [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The times they are a changin'
A 13 man board? Really need to do something about that.

Author:	club29 [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The times they are a changin'
DocSherrin wrote: club29 wrote: Spose its all about the theatre and entertainment these days. Run by suits. Feels nothing like the old days. ...you mean the old days when it was run by suits? I meant at the AFL but i guess your photo still applies. They did wear suits in the old days. Wouldnt call them blokes suits though.

Author:	Adam Chatfield [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The times they are a changin'
People have short memories, a lot more trading went on prior to the introduction of the draft in the mid 80s, now it will probably go back to that level. I really don't think the world will end as we know it.

Author:	Dominator_7 [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The times they are a changin'
Adam Chatfield wrote: People have short memories, a lot more trading went on prior to the introduction of the draft in the mid 80s, now it will probably go back to that level. I really don't think the world will end as we know it. Yeah I remember the days of the 80s when there wre so many players running around who had been at 2, or even 3 other clubs previously (eg Georff Raines went from Richmond to Collingwood to Essendon*, and finally to Brisbane in the space of only a few years)

Author:	camel [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The times they are a changin'
Adam Chatfield wrote: People have short memories, a lot more trading went on prior to the introduction of the draft in the mid 80s, now it will probably go back to that level. I really don't think the world will end as we know it. Peter McKenna worked out well.

Author:	kingkerna [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The times they are a changin'
Glad we didn't have too many vice presidents back then

Author:	DocSherrin III [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The times they are a changin'
kingkerna wrote: Glad we didn't have too many vice presidents back then You can never have too many Vice-Presidents...what if there's a 'football emergency'?

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Author:	muzza [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The times they are a changin'
camelboy wrote: Adam Chatfield wrote: People have short memories, a lot more trading went on prior to the introduction of the draft in the mid 80s, now it will probably go back to that level. I really don't think the world will end as we know it. Peter McKenna worked out well. I'll see your Peter McKenna and raise my Mick McGuane

Author:	BlueBern [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The times they are a changin'
muzza wrote: camelboy wrote: Adam Chatfield wrote: People have short memories, a lot more trading went on prior to the introduction of the draft in the mid 80s, now it will probably go back to that level. I really don't think the world will end as we know it. Peter McKenna worked out well. I'll see your Peter McKenna and raise my Mick McGuane I'll see you both and raise you a Peter Bedford.

Author:	frank dardew [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The times they are a changin'
What about Bruce Reid at the time I didnt but now seeing his two sons I wish he had played a lot more games at Carlton

Author:	Wet Willie [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The times they are a changin'
Collingwood = Carlton feeder club...

Author:	Juanita Jones [ Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The times they are a changin'
DocSherrin wrote: kingkerna wrote: Glad we didn't have too many vice presidents back then You can never have too many Vice-Presidents...what if there's a 'football emergency'? It doesn't look like Joe Biden.

Author:	Mens sana [ Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The times they are a changin'
If the times they are a'changin' then all the more reason to have hard-nosed people who know how to deal with reality running our club. It's about us planning better and taking better decisions than the other clubs. Seems like that is starting to happen at CFC.