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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:19 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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ThePsychologist wrote:
AGRO wrote:
After sacking Percy Jones in 1980 - we appointed David Parkin as coach (2 years after he had coached Hawthorn to the 1978 flag) - and also recruited Peter Bosustow and Ken Hunter = flags in 1981 and 1982. :wink:

If we appointed Mick Malthouse and somehow got hold of Cloke and Goddard (not sure how we are going to pay every body else) - it will be the usual short term Carlton solution - but at this point I might be tempted.


It is tempting and I like the reference point but I just don't rate Cloke at all. I don't think he is that good and certainly not worth the money he is asking. Plus, he is a strange cat and not a team person.

I believe we have the list and if we can "add" some class to it we will be right in the mix. I like Goddard but we have Gibbs.

Instead of Cloke should we be targeting players like Caddy, Boak, Stevens, Toy, Salope, Knights, Chaplin etc. A lot cheaper and still play a role. Been interesting to watch how well drilled sides like Hawthorn and Freo have gone without their keys forwards recently.

I am confident Mitchell, Casboult, Waite, Henderson, Rowe will fill the key forward spots.



I actually agree with you - but I made the point because at Carlton its the way we have done it since 1964 (George Harris).

Its time now for a new "George Harris" to sweep a broom through and bring us into the 21st Century - the way the old George Harris took us at of pre-World War II and into the 20th Century. :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:19 am 
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Geoff Southby

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ThePsychologist wrote:
Adam Chatfield wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
[quote="Adam Chatfield"]
This whole develop your own thing is fine, but Essendon* do that and it's not like their any better than us. Free agency is going to make things very different from here on in.


Actually no.
Geelong are the self confessed leaders in developing their own players.
They openly admit that is their list building philosophy.

And 3 flags in 5 years tells me they're much better than us.


They are yes, but they did get Ottens and Mooney from other clubs and are currently chasing Boak.

It's not all one way or the other.


Definitely. SR said the other day our theory is Draft for tomorrow, recruit for today.

If we believe we have some holes but are close we should try and fill them.[/quote]

True, people can disagree about Cloke but to say we should simply grow our own even in the new world of free agency is nuts.

I'm not advocating to simply rely on free agency mind you.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:21 am 
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formerly cj69

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The Duke wrote:
I also think our list is not that bad. Our problem has always been coaching (statisticians make crap coaches). I'd make some hard decisions and look to trading 2 of our 'stars' if the reward was high enough. Those stars are Yarran and Gibbs.


I am always of the belief that anyone is tradeable if you improve your list but to trade Yarran and Gibbs the options would want to be bloody good.

Although both are frustrating they are extremely talented and under a new very disciplined coach they may thrive and improve?

Personally, I would put 1-2 of our ruckman up and see what happens. A couple of clubs are desperate for a good ruck man and we might do well out of it! :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:22 am 
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Geoff Southby

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Let's see how Yarran and Gibbs go under a new regime.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:24 am 
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Bruce Doull
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ThePsychologist wrote:
The Duke wrote:
I also think our list is not that bad. Our problem has always been coaching (statisticians make crap coaches). I'd make some hard decisions and look to trading 2 of our 'stars' if the reward was high enough. Those stars are Yarran and Gibbs.


I am always of the belief that anyone is tradeable if you improve your list but to trade Yarran and Gibbs the options would want to be bloody good.

Although both are frustrating they are extremely talented and under a new very disciplined coach they may thrive and improve?


True - but to get a Goddard we'll need some money. Ideally you'd have all 3, but I just get the feeling these two will never fulfill their potential. Hope I'm wrong and both produce blinders under a new coach.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:24 am 
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formerly cj69

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AGRO wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
AGRO wrote:
After sacking Percy Jones in 1980 - we appointed David Parkin as coach (2 years after he had coached Hawthorn to the 1978 flag) - and also recruited Peter Bosustow and Ken Hunter = flags in 1981 and 1982. :wink:

If we appointed Mick Malthouse and somehow got hold of Cloke and Goddard (not sure how we are going to pay every body else) - it will be the usual short term Carlton solution - but at this point I might be tempted.


It is tempting and I like the reference point but I just don't rate Cloke at all. I don't think he is that good and certainly not worth the money he is asking. Plus, he is a strange cat and not a team person.

I believe we have the list and if we can "add" some class to it we will be right in the mix. I like Goddard but we have Gibbs.

Instead of Cloke should we be targeting players like Caddy, Boak, Stevens, Toy, Salope, Knights, Chaplin etc. A lot cheaper and still play a role. Been interesting to watch how well drilled sides like Hawthorn and Freo have gone without their keys forwards recently.

I am confident Mitchell, Casboult, Waite, Henderson, Rowe will fill the key forward spots.



I actually agree with you - but I made the point because at Carlton its the way we have done it since 1964 (George Harris).

Its time now for a new "George Harris" to sweep a broom through and bring us into the 21st Century - the way the old George Harris took us at of pre-World War II and into the 20th Century. :wink:


This is my biggest complaint about the club.

We are simply a very poorly run organisation. We need to be brought into the 21st Century and be a "leader" in everything we do. To do that we need a "leader" who will achieve that and everyone will follow.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:29 am 
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formerly cj69

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The Duke wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
The Duke wrote:
I also think our list is not that bad. Our problem has always been coaching (statisticians make crap coaches). I'd make some hard decisions and look to trading 2 of our 'stars' if the reward was high enough. Those stars are Yarran and Gibbs.


I am always of the belief that anyone is tradeable if you improve your list but to trade Yarran and Gibbs the options would want to be bloody good.

Although both are frustrating they are extremely talented and under a new very disciplined coach they may thrive and improve?


True - but to get a Goddard we'll need some money. Ideally you'd have all 3, but I just get the feeling these two will never fulfill their potential. Hope I'm wrong and both produce blinders under a new coach.


I understand but I have said it before, I find it hard to judge players under the current coaching regime. Seriously, how many have improved?

Look at Adelaide and a lot of their players this year.

We have the money for Goddard but I feel he will go to Freo.

A Josh Caddy is just a talented and has a lot more upside. GC have to delist a minimum 7 players this year and he wants to come home.

Just imagine what adding a Goddard and Caddy to our list would do! :smoking:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:50 am 
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Bruce Doull
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It'd be very handy. Goddard - a Blues supporter living in Melbourne with a new coach and Chris Judd Vs moving to, and playing for, Freo AND playing with Ballantyne who just happens to be a bigger rectum than Milne.

He won't go west.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:16 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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The Duke wrote:
It'd be very handy. Goddard - a Blues supporter living in Melbourne with a new coach and Chris Judd Vs moving to, and playing for, Freo AND playing with Ballantyne who just happens to be a bigger rectum than Milne.

He won't go west.



He's be used to playing for a whole lot of rectums whilst at St. Kilda so playing with just one at Fremantle shouldn't pose any problems.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:47 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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It may be no surprise to anyone but I succinctly declare that the playing list is more important than who coaches us. Especially given that we are no longer the most professional club in other areas.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:49 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Blue Vain wrote:
Adam Chatfield wrote:
This whole develop your own thing is fine, but Essendon* do that and it's not like their any better than us. Free agency is going to make things very different from here on in.


Actually no.
Geelong are the self confessed leaders in developing their own players.
They openly admit that is their list building philosophy.
Essendon* are just very poor at poaching players but it hasnt stopped them trying.

And BTW, 3 flags in 5 years tells Geelong are much better than us.


To be fair the previous 44 years were pretty lopsided, 8-zip in our favour. :razz:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:52 am 
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Bruce Doull
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AGRO wrote:
The Duke wrote:
It'd be very handy. Goddard - a Blues supporter living in Melbourne with a new coach and Chris Judd Vs moving to, and playing for, Freo AND playing with Ballantyne who just happens to be a bigger rectum than Milne.

He won't go west.



He's be used to playing for a whole lot of rectums whilst at St. Kilda so playing with just one at Fremantle shouldn't pose any problems.


Nah, it's the other way around. :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:53 am 
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Geoff Southby
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The Duke wrote:
I agree. So let's get MM and Goddard (not Cloke).


Agreed...
The next coach will either pry open the Premiership window, or slam it shut for another 5 years.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:57 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Blue Vain wrote:

No I dont think Casboult can carry the forward line but somewhere along the line we'll have to draft players and actually develop them instead of sponging off everyone else's hard work. Now is that time.


But BV that's not the carlton model!

That's all too hard


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:08 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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camelboy wrote:
AGRO wrote:
The Duke wrote:
It'd be very handy. Goddard - a Blues supporter living in Melbourne with a new coach and Chris Judd Vs moving to, and playing for, Freo AND playing with Ballantyne who just happens to be a bigger rectum than Milne.

He won't go west.



He's be used to playing for a whole lot of rectums whilst at St. Kilda so playing with just one at Fremantle shouldn't pose any problems.


Nah, it's the other way around. :wink:



I will take your word for it. :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:10 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Woosh? :P

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:23 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Rhys26 wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:

No I dont think Casboult can carry the forward line but somewhere along the line we'll have to draft players and actually develop them instead of sponging off everyone else's hard work. Now is that time.


But BV that's not the carlton model!

That's all too hard


That's why I'd rather trump Melbourne to get Jesse Hogan to the club via the mini draft. I'd put more importance on that than getting Cloke. That kind of logic is why the prospect of getting Cloke to the club scares me. The club would never do both, it would be seen as overkill.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Jack Martin ahead of Jesse Hogan anyday! Martin will be an absolute gun. And Hogan kicks like Levi Casboult!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:25 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Stefchook wrote:
Jack Martin ahead of Jesse Hogan anyday! Martin will be an absolute gun. And Hogan kicks like Levi Casboult!


I wouldn't really know know how much of an issue his kicking is but Melbourne seem to rate him better than who else they could get at pick three, or whatever it is. Jack Martin is in the mix to go before we'd get the chance.

All I'm saying is that you have to think about these kinds of things to set the list up. We seem to think it's all about helping Judd out and making things do.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:35 pm 
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Bruce Comben

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Is Ratts still speaking to Kouta???


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