JohnM wrote:
3 more would give him 8 years, which is probably enough time for him to grow into the job.
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| No Praise for Ratts! (split topic) http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32059 |
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| Author: | keogh [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | No Praise for Ratts! (split topic) |
The question is where should we be in 2012 8th or 9th isnt good enough the club went after Judd when he was 24 A flag before he goes. He is closing in on 30 As I said before I am not one of Ratten's greatest supporters, but it isnt his fault entirely. Hyde's role was an absolute disgrace and whoever decided that was a great idea to have a part part time reserves coach needs to go Injuries are a reason for poor efforts but our efforts have been so bad at times Look at Geelong against WC a few weeks ago No HUnt, Varcoe, Kelly, Chapman, Hawkins,Corey, Smedts and they nearly win because they have a full time reserves coach who teaches the youngsters the same way as Scott. I go on who you beat as well. Essendon* are like a horse on its last legs. Great win but we didnt have to go to plan B The club have to make some tough decisions. My fear is that they wont because their thinking will be that we beat the scum by 16 goals . Where going well. We arnt |
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| Author: | teagueyubeauty [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Praise for Ratts! |
Not denying we've been rubbish in some games BUT with an injury ravaged team we were in it up to our eye balls against the Cats and WC over there. The issue I've got is we have these rubbish periods of 4-5 weeks every season which kills us, mostly the rest of the time we are clearly Top 4 material. To me it's depth and injuries to our taller KP players. Should never have let Teaguey go, Bullants and development have been very ordinary since. It's a fact, I can pull out the mountains of rubbish posts belittling his coaching style by people on here that think theyre experts but he was clearly very good at what he does. |
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| Author: | The_Wookie [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Praise for Ratts! |
keogh wrote: The question is where should we be in 2012 8th or 9th isnt good enough the club went after Judd when he was 24 A flag before he goes. He is closing in on 30 As I said before I am not one of Ratten's greatest supporters, but it isnt his fault entirely. Hyde's role was an absolute disgrace and whoever decided that was a great idea to have a part part time reserves coach needs to go Injuries are a reason for poor efforts but our efforts have been so bad at times Look at Geelong against WC a few weeks ago No HUnt, Varcoe, Kelly, Chapman, Hawkins,Corey, Smedts and they nearly win because they have a full time reserves coach who teaches the youngsters the same way as Scott. I go on who you beat as well. Essendon* are like a horse on its last legs. Great win but we didnt have to go to plan B The club have to make some tough decisions. My fear is that they wont because their thinking will be that we beat the scum by 16 goals . Where going well. We arnt We got within 10 points of West Coast at home too champ. Geelong lost by 5. Find a better example. |
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| Author: | keogh [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Praise for Ratts! |
The_Wookie wrote: keogh wrote: The question is where should we be in 2012 8th or 9th isnt good enough the club went after Judd when he was 24 A flag before he goes. He is closing in on 30 As I said before I am not one of Ratten's greatest supporters, but it isnt his fault entirely. Hyde's role was an absolute disgrace and whoever decided that was a great idea to have a part part time reserves coach needs to go Injuries are a reason for poor efforts but our efforts have been so bad at times Look at Geelong against WC a few weeks ago No HUnt, Varcoe, Kelly, Chapman, Hawkins,Corey, Smedts and they nearly win because they have a full time reserves coach who teaches the youngsters the same way as Scott. I go on who you beat as well. Essendon* are like a horse on its last legs. Great win but we didnt have to go to plan B The club have to make some tough decisions. My fear is that they wont because their thinking will be that we beat the scum by 16 goals . Where going well. We arnt We got within 10 points of West Coast at home too champ. Geelong lost by 5. Find a better example. Collingwood last week No Thomas, Swann Penders is obviously not fit as well |
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| Author: | Cazzesman [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Praise for Ratts! |
Keogh the argument you raise is valid but you haven't quite fleshed it out to all the facts. You say no Thomas or Swan but for a 4 week period in the middle of the season the Blues had the equivalent out due to injury Maxwell - Laidler Cloke - Waite Beams - Murphy Sidebottom - Simpson Reid - Henderson Brown - Jamieson Swann - Carrots Jolly - Warnock Tarrant - Hampson So lets compare apples with apples. Regards Cazzesman |
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| Author: | buzzaaaah [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Praise for Ratts! |
Good coaching on the weekend. Lets see how the season pans out from here, but the review of Ratt's coaching should be based on the season whole, and the last 5 years. You can make arguments for retaining him and canning him. But if we do make finals with a healthy list, we would expect wins. |
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| Author: | teknodeejay [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Praise for Ratts! |
Credit where it's due for getting the right results. I still believe there were some major issues with the how the team moved out of D50 in the wins against Bulldogs and Lions, which we got destroyed with by the Swans. It could come down to that we just hate Etihad Stadium and work the MCG a heck of a lot better. When you compare how the team goes about it between those two games, they are much more fluent at the hallowed turf than the artifical one. Carlton should just stop playing at Etihad as much as possible. Home games against Hawthorn St Kilda and North Melbourne should always be at the MCG. |
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| Author: | teknodeejay [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Praise for Ratts! |
buzzaaaah wrote: Good coaching on the weekend. Lets see how the season pans out from here, but the review of Ratt's coaching should be based on the season whole, and the last 5 years. You can make arguments for retaining him and canning him. But if we do make finals with a healthy list, we would expect wins. More so than the last 5 years, the decision should be on what the plan is to maximize the next 1-2 years, and whether Ratten can deliver to that plan, or perhaps whether he should be given the opportunity to deliver to the plan. I still think there are some big problems that will mean Carlton will be a 5th-8th team unless they can be addressed and engineered out of the playing style. |
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| Author: | Pklz [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Praise for Ratts! |
I've never been a Ratten-basher but throughout the year i've almost reached the point where I thought he probably didn't have much hope in keeping his job and accepted the fact that he's likely to go. After the teams mini fightback to keep us in the race for finals I would be disappointed to see the club sack him a year before his contract expires. It's no secret that we have had our injury problems this year and were exposed for depth. But It's more the fact that the team was always rotating and the team was never settled. So whatever happens in the weeks to come I'd like to see the club at least honor his contract through to next season and with any luck we might be able to get a better idea of where we are at with a less injury interrupted season. A expect a full review of the football department post season though and hope we can identify areas on where the club can support Ratten by giving him the best equipment and personel to work with. Thats no a stab at the current staff but it's something that can always be improved no matter what. |
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| Author: | Juddy&theKruezers [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Praise for Ratts! |
IMO Ratts needs to be either backed to the hilt and given another contract or let go....having him see out next year coaching for his life every week will only result in selection and tactical errors leading to another wasted year....it's a pretty simple decision for the board....yes he's the guy who can take this team to a flag or no he isn't.... |
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| Author: | Humpers [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Praise for Ratts! |
I don't buy into the injury excuse however believe Ratts deserves another year. It is clear he has the support of the players - they could have easily dropped their bundle after the North loss but have stuck to the task. Caboult, Bell, McInnes and the resurgence of Brock McLean has made a big difference and we have plenty to look forward to next year. |
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| Author: | camel [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Praise for Ratts! |
The injuries were a factor, of course, but let's not forget the way the 22 selected players performed at times during that poor run was both mind boggling and inexcusable. Was that simply their fault or the way they were coached? Hopefully the "I hate that word" review at the end of the year will find out. |
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| Author: | JohnM [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Praise for Ratts! |
Juddy&theKruezers wrote: IMO Ratts needs to be either backed to the hilt and given another contract or let go....having him see out next year coaching for his life every week will only result in selection and tactical errors leading to another wasted year....it's a pretty simple decision for the board....yes he's the guy who can take this team to a flag or no he isn't.... I tend to agree with that. Either get rid of him at the end of the year, or give him another couple on top. We can't be a little bit pregnant with a position as important as this. After all the conjecture this year, and with the president being vague about Ratten's future, it would be untenable to just roll into next season with Ratten on his last year. Every loss would mean a 'will ratten get the arse' story. 3 more would give him 8 years, which is probably enough time for him to grow into the job. |
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| Author: | Pafloyul [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Praise for Ratts! |
Why is it all or nothing with some of you blokes? AFL is a complex business and the draft effectively evens up the teams. How many of the teams with 'a top four list' are going to finish in the top four? It's all relative. At the end of the 'day' we are still only going to finish just in or outside the eight. If the same thing happens next year and we don't go on with it we will have to count it as failure. You create your own luck. |
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| Author: | DocSherrin III [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Praise for Ratts! |
JohnM wrote: 3 more would give him 8 years, which is probably enough time for him to grow into the job.
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| Author: | Blue Boys [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Praise for Ratts! |
JohnM wrote: Juddy&theKruezers wrote: IMO Ratts needs to be either backed to the hilt and given another contract or let go....having him see out next year coaching for his life every week will only result in selection and tactical errors leading to another wasted year....it's a pretty simple decision for the board....yes he's the guy who can take this team to a flag or no he isn't.... I tend to agree with that. Either get rid of him at the end of the year, or give him another couple on top. We can't be a little bit pregnant with a position as important as this. After all the conjecture this year, and with the president being vague about Ratten's future, it would be untenable to just roll into next season with Ratten on his last year. Every loss would mean a 'will ratten get the arse' story. 3 more would give him 8 years, which is probably enough time for him to grow into the job. I don't see why it would be a good business decision to give another 3 years, 1 year before his contract expires. He won't be going to another club and it won't stop the media turning on him if things were to turn sour. I would let him see out his final year and see how we progress next year. |
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| Author: | JohnM [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Praise for Ratts! |
Blue Boys wrote: JohnM wrote: Juddy&theKruezers wrote: IMO Ratts needs to be either backed to the hilt and given another contract or let go....having him see out next year coaching for his life every week will only result in selection and tactical errors leading to another wasted year....it's a pretty simple decision for the board....yes he's the guy who can take this team to a flag or no he isn't.... I tend to agree with that. Either get rid of him at the end of the year, or give him another couple on top. We can't be a little bit pregnant with a position as important as this. After all the conjecture this year, and with the president being vague about Ratten's future, it would be untenable to just roll into next season with Ratten on his last year. Every loss would mean a 'will ratten get the arse' story. 3 more would give him 8 years, which is probably enough time for him to grow into the job. I don't see why it would be a good business decision to give another 3 years, 1 year before his contract expires. He won't be going to another club and it won't stop the media turning on him if things were to turn sour. I would let him see out his final year and see how we progress next year. We're clearly at the stage now where we need to make the hard decisions at the club. If the board wants to meet its stated objective of more than one flag with the current group of players, then they need to ensure the coaching setup from 2013 onwards is the setup that will take us there. Just giving ratts 'one more year and we'll see how we go' says to me the board is effing useless. After 5 years, they should know whether Ratts is their man. If he is, then go with him and go with him properly, and win those two flags with ratts at the helm. If he isn't, why the hell waste another year? One year of limbo and all that says is the board can't make a decision. Club needs to grow some nuts on this. Sorry, I know this isn't the 'the board is shit' thread, but it's kinda hard to separate the two. |
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| Author: | redback [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Praise for Ratts! |
When Ratten was appointed I wasn't jumping for joy mainly because I didn't think he was the type of coach that a young playing group needed. Over the time he has made some questionable decisions both at selection and positionial but he should also get credit for the last couple of years of growth. During this time he has also grown on me because I can see the passion he has for our club and the hunger for it to succeed again. No doubt injuries have taken a significant toll to our structures not only throughout this year but also at significant times through the last two final series. With most of our key personnel back and finding fitness and form you can see how much of a difference it makes to our team and how that could make our coach look good so when they are out it just seen to make sense that it could also kill our coach. I believe Ratten deserves to at least see out next year with a healthier list then we should decide if the axe should fall or not. Lets not forget the players seem to be playing more for his future than their own. Afew have also questioned our development and depth but we don't look too bad in that department after blooding Watson, Casboult, Bell, Bootsma, Dale and McIness. Yes I know that means another year of the doubters but if there wasn't two sides too every story TC would be very mundane. |
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| Author: | Cazzesman [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Praise for Ratts! |
On Sunday at the Ants VFL there was a sizable contingent of the Resident Italian Selection Committee seated near me. All the usual suspects were there. They were in a good mood and even let me pass without the normal barrage of questions about our poor recruiting record.  Throughout the day it was interesting to hear how many of them were keen for Ratts to continue Coaching. They were both Vocal and Amusing at times. In particular the little 'Manic Ranter' was very Pro Ratts and he let eveyone know it in no uncertain terms (as he does about most things)  Ratts will be pleased to know he has his full support. Regards Cazzesman |
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| Author: | Sydney Blue [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Praise for Ratts! |
Cazzesman wrote: On Sunday at the Ants VFL there was a sizable contingent of the Resident Italian Selection Committee seated near me. All the usual suspects were there. They were in a good mood and even let me pass without the normal barrage of questions about out poor recruiting record. Throughout the day it was interesting to hear how many of them were keen for Ratts to continue Coaching. They were both Vocal and Amusing at times. In particular the little 'Manic Ranter' was very Pro Ratts and he let eveyone know it in no uncertain terms (as he does about most things) Ratts will be please to know he has his full support. Regards Cazzesman Well we can all breathe a sigh of relief - Ratts has the thumbs up from the Lygon street Pizza Makers There wasn't a little greek fellow amongst them in a Sailor suit by any chance |
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