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 Post subject: Re: Praise for Ratts!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:08 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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DocSherrin wrote:
Braithy wrote:
... and Doc's opinions matter not one bit. He's declared he's cashed in his stocks and reinvested elsewhere. He's not even watching the games, which tells me any comment he makes about a current state of affairs is ill informed and incorrect.


Woah...I just returned from 5 weeks overseas. It's a bit hard to watch footy when you can't watch footy! Fair suck of the sauce bottle pal. And reinvested elsewhere? Where pray tell? So I watched a replay of the Essendon* game last night...do my opinions count again if I watch the Bulldogs, Richmond, Sydney and Brisbane games? Or are they still ill informed and incorrect opinion because I wasn't in the country? :lol: :lol: :donk:


I think it's the small matter of barracking for the opposition (no matter who they are) that's at issue Doc.

You managed to do that from the US. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Praise for Ratts!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:14 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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cimm1979 wrote:

I think it's the small matter of barracking for the opposition (no matter who they are) that's at issue Doc.

You managed to do that from the US. :wink:


Surely you can see the method in my madness? And pretty sure I only did that for the Brisbane game. Wasn't on here for the Dogs, Tiges, Swans nor Bombers games....except to say 'meh' of course...that just about sums up Carlton's 2012...meh.


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 Post subject: Re: Praise for Ratts!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:15 am 
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Wayne Johnston

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Synbad wrote:

Cos theyre playing footy to a level they couldnt for ten weeks???



Almost half the 22 from last Saturday were not even fit to play for that ten weeks to be fair.

Looking forward to the rest of the season.

Praise be to Ratts.


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 Post subject: Re: Praise for Ratts!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:18 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Braithy wrote:
Synners wrote:
Robert Walls should say he is a better coach this year than last year and last year they gave him two years why not extend his contract ?

Do you agree ? yes or no?



I'll take option C, thanks. Let Ratten coach out his current contract. Win or lose, for better or for worse. Let him finish his contract.

Where is it written that a coach must be offered an extension before their current one has expired? It seems like a flawed logic, you're employing here.

There's not an AFL coach out there more qualified or with more experience with this current list of players to be more successful than Ratten in season 2013.

He is a better coach this year than he was last year.. when he got an extension to his contract by two years.
But in year six and part of his year 7 as coach next year... you want to wait and see???

Six and seven years and he is a better coach this year than laat year and youre unconvinced???

So who has been handling our kids for five years???? :lol:

Do you even understand what youre saying.?????? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Praise for Ratts!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:19 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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DocSherrin wrote:
cimm1979 wrote:

I think it's the small matter of barracking for the opposition (no matter who they are) that's at issue Doc.

You managed to do that from the US. :wink:


Surely you can see the method in my madness? And pretty sure I only did that for the Brisbane game. Wasn't on here for the Dogs, Tiges, Swans nor Bombers games....except to say 'meh' of course...that just about sums up Carlton's 2012...meh.


All I see is that making the eight doesn't suit your vision of a future free of Sticks, Ratt's, Coutts, Gleeson etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Praise for Ratts!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:21 am 
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Bruce Doull
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club29 wrote:
Synbad wrote:

Cos theyre playing footy to a level they couldnt for ten weeks???



Almost half the 22 from last Saturday were not even fit to play for that ten weeks to be fair.

Looking forward to the rest of the season.

Praise be to Ratts.

So you were taking about effort club and now youve changed thinking.. the players were intense but we have some guys back .. same effort different troops????

Where is your consitency my friend???

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 Post subject: Re: Praise for Ratts!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:22 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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club29 wrote:
Synbad wrote:

Cos theyre playing footy to a level they couldnt for ten weeks???



Almost half the 22 from last Saturday were not even fit to play for that ten weeks to be fair.

Looking forward to the rest of the season.

Praise be to Ratts.


Are you having a religious experience Club?

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 Post subject: Re: Praise for Ratts!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:22 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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cimm1979 wrote:
All I see is that making the eight doesn't suit your vision of a future free of Sticks, Ratt's, Coutts, Gleeson etc.


I'll take 'Terrible Football Administrators' for $600 thanks Alex.

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 Post subject: Praise for Ratts!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:26 am 
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Vale 1953-2020
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DocSherrin wrote:
Braithy wrote:
... and Doc's opinions matter not one bit. He's declared he's cashed in his stocks and reinvested elsewhere. He's not even watching the games, which tells me any comment he makes about a current state of affairs is ill informed and incorrect.


Woah...I just returned from 5 weeks overseas. It's a bit hard to watch footy when you can't watch footy! Fair suck of the sauce bottle pal. And reinvested elsewhere? Where pray tell? So I watched a replay of the Essendon* game last night...do my opinions count again if I watch the Bulldogs, Richmond, Sydney and Brisbane games? Or are they still ill informed and incorrect opinion because I wasn't in the country? :lol: :lol: :donk:

But....but.... what if you "come across like" a merchant banker?? Will they count then?

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 Post subject: Re: Praise for Ratts!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:28 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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DocSherrin wrote:
cimm1979 wrote:
All I see is that making the eight doesn't suit your vision of a future free of Sticks, Ratt's, Coutts, Gleeson etc.


I'll take 'Terrible Football Administrators' for $600 thanks Alex.

Image


Cute and lighthearted.

Much like your support. :grin:

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 Post subject: Re: Praise for Ratts!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:34 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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cimm1979 wrote:
Cute and lighthearted.

Much like your support. :grin:


if only you knew, Cimm...if only you knew.


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 Post subject: Re: Praise for Ratts!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:35 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Blue Vain wrote:
Ratts has improved enormously as a match day coach since his appointment. In fact, strategically I'd place him in the top half dozen.
The problem as I see it is being a senior coach now requires so much more. The senior coaching role in its current form places the coach as the club figurehead. He represents the club to its members, its supporters, the corporate world and potential partners.
His decisions and behaviours determine the clubs image of inclusiveness or exclusion. Footy clubs are about selling hope to the supporters and often that is determined by the messages presented by the coach.
Ratts is poor in this area. I have no doubt his lack of marketing and communication skills impact upon the clubs mediocre membership numbers.
To be blunt, we are still a bogan club trying to compete in a highly competitive environment that requires a multitude of skills to reach the top.

What is the answer? As I've stated previously, I'm not interested in compromising any areas required to achieve. The days of allowing a coach another 5 years to develop his deficiencies because he has strengths in other areas are for amateurs.
Yes Ratts could lead us to on field success but does that mean we should wear the rest of his deficiencies because thats the package? Not for me.

The club has 2 viable options in my opinion.
Get a person who will adequately meet the majority of criteria required. (Personally, I dont think theres anyone available)
Or, make a decision on what expectations are required in the role and get several people in to perform those roles well.
Obviously I prefer option 2 and if the club is fair dinkum, they should as well.
As I said Saturday, I'd give Ratten the senior match day role. I'd put him on equal footing with the development/recruiting department and put a program manager in above both areas to manage the football department. The program manager is required to balance the expectations of the football department, the clubs corporate and membership role and the long term viability of the list.
He would be the clubs face to the media, members and potential corporate partners. If we could get the right person to perform this role with universal respect, I'd expect a large amount of our current issues could be addressed.


BV, I've really enjoyed your posts on this. Much to ponder.
Could it really work?
It would take some advanced communication skills between the parties involved.

I have to disagree with the part about Ratts in the media.
He seems to have won the respect of journos, other players, and coaches. everyone likes him and admires his dogged tenacity in the face of fire, injuries, and the anti Ratts brigade at his own club.
You've got a lot of well respected AFL people sticking up for him. He does blither sometimes, and his verbal skills aren't as polished as many others, but...it's working because everyone now see him as the little battler, who can actually coach, and deserves a go.
That is not an image that all Carltonians will like..and learly they don't.

If we can keep him, magnify, and support his strengths, then I'm for it. If that means compromise..via the ways you suggest, then that might be a way forward.
Have someone polished for the Corporate stuff.

Look, surely there's enough talent in the coaching pool we have right now?

I see Ratts as growing, and improving all the time, and I can't see why, with some tweaking, he couldn't get us a flag. He has enough support staff around him. I reckon he's the Seabiscuit of the AFL. Tough, nuggety, doesn't look like a thoroughbred. You wouldn't pick him out in the crowd, and has been rejected by many.
Responds well to loyalty, and gives back in spades. That's Ratts to me.
I want him there next year if possible..even if in a shared role. no problem.

I like your ideas a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: Praise for Ratts!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:43 am 
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formerly cj69

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am
Posts: 7893
DocSherrin wrote:
cimm1979 wrote:
Cute and lighthearted.

Much like your support. :grin:


if only you knew, Cimm...if only you knew.


Doc....what have I told you about arguing with crazy people? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Praise for Ratts!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:44 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Posts: 15582
Location: Upper Swan.
The Cheerleader returns.!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Praise for Ratts!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:45 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Blue Vain wrote:
Ratts has improved enormously as a match day coach since his appointment. In fact, strategically I'd place him in the top half dozen.
The problem as I see it is being a senior coach now requires so much more. The senior coaching role in its current form places the coach as the club figurehead. He represents the club to its members, its supporters, the corporate world and potential partners.
His decisions and behaviours determine the clubs image of inclusiveness or exclusion. Footy clubs are about selling hope to the supporters and often that is determined by the messages presented by the coach.
Ratts is poor in this area. I have no doubt his lack of marketing and communication skills impact upon the clubs mediocre membership numbers.
To be blunt, we are still a bogan club trying to compete in a highly competitive environment that requires a multitude of skills to reach the top.

What is the answer? As I've stated previously, I'm not interested in compromising any areas required to achieve. The days of allowing a coach another 5 years to develop his deficiencies because he has strengths in other areas are for amateurs.
Yes Ratts could lead us to on field success but does that mean we should wear the rest of his deficiencies because thats the package? Not for me.

The club has 2 viable options in my opinion.
Get a person who will adequately meet the majority of criteria required. (Personally, I dont think theres anyone available)
Or, make a decision on what expectations are required in the role and get several people in to perform those roles well.
Obviously I prefer option 2 and if the club is fair dinkum, they should as well.
As I said Saturday, I'd give Ratten the senior match day role. I'd put him on equal footing with the development/recruiting department and put a program manager in above both areas to manage the football department. The program manager is required to balance the expectations of the football department, the clubs corporate and membership role and the long term viability of the list.
He would be the clubs face to the media, members and potential corporate partners. If we could get the right person to perform this role with universal respect, I'd expect a large amount of our current issues could be addressed.

[youtube]wlMwc1c0HRQ[/youtube]

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 Post subject: Re: Praise for Ratts!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:58 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 8940
Location: Nth Fitzroy
Synbad wrote:
club29 wrote:
Synbad wrote:

Cos theyre playing footy to a level they couldnt for ten weeks???



Almost half the 22 from last Saturday were not even fit to play for that ten weeks to be fair.

Looking forward to the rest of the season.

Praise be to Ratts.

So you were taking about effort club and now youve changed thinking.. the players were intense but we have some guys back .. same effort different troops????

Where is your consitency my friend???


No i havent changed my thinking. The 22 we were putting out in the slump were not putting in the effort. I believe that. They were not physical enough and were not playing with any intensity.
People at the time were trying to put it all on wrong tactics by the coach. I dont believe that. The lack of effort was the reason any tactic we tried has not chance of success.

I just cant look at the 22 last week and say where was that effort 10 weeks ago when to be fair a large chunk of that 22 were not even out there.

So my friend i dont think my consistency comes into it.

I have jumped around a bit recently with regards to Ratts and it wouldnt kill me to see him coach again next year.

I see Ratts holding his head up and getting things done when others would have thrown in the towel. He knows he is as good as gone but is still focussed on getting the best result he possibly can from here on in 2012. I like that. The team looks to like that. I am supporting that.

Praise be to Ratts.


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 Post subject: Re: Praise for Ratts!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:27 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Why did you insist we should change tactics?
Why didnt the players play for him ten weeks straight?
Why have you been flip flopping?

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 Post subject: Re: Praise for Ratts!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:43 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Michael Jezz wrote:
"magnificent effort chaps.....we were the victor over the 10th side on its knees"Rah rah you bunch of Melbourne supporters exceptors of mediocrity
If we beat gold coast and stkilda we beat 11th and 15
Top 4 objective gets demoted to win one final
Now lower the bar to making the eight
Now lower it a bit further because we had more injuries relative to the rest of the competition a fabricated argument
Ratten the good chappy can keep his job and we can sign him on for another two years because hes heart is in the right place and he is good bloke.
Beat westcoast in Perth in a final and prove something for once


They can't win with you can they? This was built up as a massive clash between two fierce rivals fighting it out for a spot in the finals. Much was written about how they'd monstered us in Rnd 4 ... how we'd succumbed to their physical menace. On top of that there was a lot of talk about how they were getting a lot of their stars back after injury.
We're still missing our best three tall defenders and seemingly had little chance against their giant forward line.

And guess what happened?

We not only shat all over them we went and rubbed their noses in it so hard that their now questioning everything about themselves, (including their "dream" coaching team).

And you want to dismiss that now as nothing much?

Geez man, we've had enough losses the past decade : learn to enjoy the wins.


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 Post subject: Re: Praise for Ratts!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:19 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Posts: 4833
Synbad wrote:

Do you even understand what youre saying.?????? :lol:


That's an interesting topic.

It seems from where I'm sitting you have an agenda. No recognition at all for the past month plus of footy from the players and the coach. Instead, you -- and others -- devalue our wins with off the cuff one-liners.

Yet, I would bet all the tea in china, had we'd lost to Essendon* on the weekend, you'd be here champing at the bit and filling every thread with anti-ratten sentiments. Why the inconsistency? What about credit where credit is due?

It seems the average carlton supporter just wants to win. They don't care who takes us there, what the cattle on the field we use to get there are, as long as we win. But with you (and others here), you want to win with conditions and provisos ... We must win, but not with ratten as coach.

And should you get your wish, and we lose with MM as coach, you will then fill up every thread with anti Kernahan sentiment.

At some stage, you need to just roll with the punches and support the club with the knowledge getting upset about the club not running and administrating itself to your standards is nothing but a waste of energy.

I find the whole glass half-empty psychology at play here curious, tbh ...


Ratten has been impressive of late. He took ownership of the way we were playing and the direction we were headed in and he arrested it. He took the media to town over their spreading of lies and falsehoods ... and when challenged with getting fired or lift, he lifted.

What's not to admire there?


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 Post subject: Re: Praise for Ratts!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:27 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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BigKev wrote:
Michael Jezz wrote:
"magnificent effort chaps.....we were the victor over the 10th side on its knees"Rah rah you bunch of Melbourne supporters exceptors of mediocrity
If we beat gold coast and stkilda we beat 11th and 15
Top 4 objective gets demoted to win one final
Now lower the bar to making the eight
Now lower it a bit further because we had more injuries relative to the rest of the competition a fabricated argument
Ratten the good chappy can keep his job and we can sign him on for another two years because hes heart is in the right place and he is good bloke.
Beat westcoast in Perth in a final and prove something for once


They can't win with you can they? This was built up as a massive clash between two fierce rivals fighting it out for a spot in the finals. Much was written about how they'd monstered us in Rnd 4 ... how we'd succumbed to their physical menace. On top of that there was a lot of talk about how they were getting a lot of their stars back after injury.
We're still missing our best three tall defenders and seemingly had little chance against their giant forward line.

And guess what happened?

We not only shat all over them we went and rubbed their noses in it so hard that their now questioning everything about themselves, (including their "dream" coaching team).

And you want to dismiss that now as nothing much?

Geez man, we've had enough losses the past decade : learn to enjoy the wins.


I think when we win a couple of ding dong games against teams in form... Ratts is getting there

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