Why does Carlton fit in to a rebuild criteria?

Do you think we're meeting the strategic objectives of our 5yr plan?

Whats our financial position look like? Pokie reliant. Massive debt.

From the outside and from the financial report, we are not a successful club and have stagnated again.

Sorry mate, What is the massive debt?

I thought the club has put more of their money into the football department and built the new facilities so the players have state of the art facilities to be aligned with other clubs. I think as a captains club member, l want the players to have the best facilities to promote onfield success. Onfield success brings more supporters to the games, brings in more cashflow, more merchandise is sold yada yada yada.

I'm sure if the club didn't inject a lot of money in to the footy department, they probably would pay the debt of quicker.

Ironic to be talking about money in this thread when malthouse will cost you $1million a season

Sorry mate, What is the massive debt?

I thought the club has put more of their money into the football department and built the new facilities so the players have state of the art facilities to be aligned with other clubs. I think as a captains club member, l want the players to have the best facilities to promote onfield success. Onfield success brings more supporters to the games, brings in more cashflow, more merchandise is sold yada yada yada.

I'm sure if the club didn't inject a lot of money in to the footy department, they probably would pay the debt of quicker.

Ironic to be talking about money in this thread when malthouse will cost you $1million a season[/quote]

Ok, maybe go read the annual report.

Ok, maybe go read the annual report.[/quote]

Apart from the debt, l don't mind this growth over the past 5 years. Collingwood spends 19mill on the footy dept per year. You have to spend $$$ to be competitive in this league. Think the club is moving in the right direction and the debt will be gone in the near future considering where we were 5 years ago. 14mill more in revenue isn't bad

Revenue
2011 - $39,950,939
2008 - $31,960,960
2007 - $25,833,480


Operating Expenses
2011 - 32,603,072
2008 - 24,256,658
2007 - 18,189,961

Total Assets
2011 - 24,364,295
2008 - 10,960,821
2007 - 5,244,247

Good for the footy department, but in reality that investment hasn't produced results yet. Duty is out IMO.

My concern has always been with the debt level, without pokies how do we reduce it? What if we have another downturn? What if pokies are banned? What is plan B?

Apart from the debt, l don't mind this growth over the past 5 years. Collingwood spends 19mill on the footy dept per year. You have to spend $$$ to be competitive in this league. Think the club is moving in the right direction and the debt will be gone in the near future considering where we were 5 years ago. 14mill more in revenue isn't bad

Revenue
2011 - $39,950,939
2008 - $31,960,960
2007 - $25,833,480


Operating Expenses
2011 - 32,603,072
2008 - 24,256,658
2007 - 18,189,961

Total Assets
2011 - 24,364,295
2008 - 10,960,821
2007 - 5,244,247[/quote]

So revenue has increased in correlation with operating expenses, and the overwhelming majority of our assets are property and related to the new renovations. Liquid assets minimal, cash balance, whilst has improved, is still minimal.

Look at the 2004/5 annual report. see: Stand; Legends..

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HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

A significant part of our debt was due to the Legends Stand, which was a total stuff up, + $1M we were fined for salary cap.
The pokies will wipe this.

But the majority of the debt, and the pokies exist outside of the standard costs and income of the club. I wouldn't be too worried about it.

Vegas at Waverley Gardens (Hawthorn Football Club venue). Retained earnings 2010-11 = $3.86 million from NGR of $11.69 million. Under the new tax arrangements this club would retain $6.65 million (an increase of 72%), or 56.9% of NGR

Not doing too bad for Hawks in 2011

Which benefactor gave them those???

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Strange comments.

Look at it from Ratten's point of view. If you were the boss for 5 years and were then told you need a mentor how would you feel?

He uses Parkin as a mentor anyway and talks a lot with him and he now has McKay who he wanted working along side him.

We also surrounded him with so called experienced coaches in Riley, Brown & Richardson to assist.

Mentors don't work unless its your idea and its someone you personally want.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

Nah, no. Not a mentor. That was the wrong word.

Someone with a specific role to strategise, help develop players and gameplans and someone to be hands on, on gameday. Like Eade or Bomber.

Look at it this way. You love the club, you love the job. The only way you're going to keep it is if we employ someone in a technical coaching advisory type role to oversee coaching. Ratts is still head coach, and fronts the media and works with the players. He just gets added technical help.

imo the players want to play for Ratten. The last month, that much is obvious on & off the field. That's half the puzzle, getting guys to wear the guernsey and play for each other. The other half is where Ratten still has heaps to learn. The technical side of developing a gameplan and a list who can carry it out. And of course gameday structures and rolling with back up plans B, C & D when A fails.

Why bring in another added assistant....why not just find a coach who can actually coach?....

_________________
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Most of that is what Richardson was brought in to do. Mckay a level above him.

Sounds good, lets throw the baby out with the bath water.

Cause coaches -- especially the really good ones with lots of experience and history of winning grow on tress and they aren't hit and miss at all. And they take no time at all to implement their new game plan?

Ratten is decent, guys want to play for him. Saying/ implying he can't coach is apart from harsh, factually incorrect. If he couldn't coach we wouldn't have finished 5th and been 3-pts shy of a prelim. We wouldn't have buried the pies. Twice. And our ressies wouldn't have beaten the dogs or tigers.

Why not tweak what we have to make it perfect? We are really close, I'd be hesitant to make wholesale changes at this point, after this season based almost entirely on impatience.

If the reasons we sucked hard against the Saints and Port etc were players not pulling their weight, lets get rid of them. We've opened up spots for kids who are hungry and talented and we're playing an attractive brand of footy.

Sunday is the big test. If we're close enough, it might be good enough for Ratten to keep his job?

Maybe we should be looking at releasing RIchardson, revamping our scouts and get in a premium strength & fitness guy then?

That's the issue. Ratts is still learning yet I believe we have a list that should be around the top 4. Do we really think its still worth having a coach that has had 5 years and is still learning? This is what was ridiculous about appointing him in the first place and then persisting with him.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

Every coach in the league, now that Malthouse has left, is still learning.

Our depth, lack of KPP, especially forward condemn us from top 4 material, imo.

It was feasible before the season started that Kreuzer, Gibbs, Robinson, Garlett etc were going to take that next step. Aside from Garlett's last 3 performances those guys have plateaued or gone backwards. Waite was also needing an injury free season to solidate us in the forward 50 to have any hope of top 4. But in essence, once those guys never took the next step, we were hopeful to even think we could finish 5th again. Too many other teams got better and have overtaken us

Once we lost Laidler -- imo -- our best backman and the above never came to fruition we are who we are. A fringe top 8 team.

I understand your points Braithy but its a fine line. Pick our best 30 and get them up and running and see how we match up.

The loss of Laidler and the lack of form development is a poor reflection on the whole football department. If they were all up and running and our kids had more game time I believe we would be well within the top 4.

People blame injuries but it has great insight into our lack of development. We simply don't play enough kids and give them the time and experience to be able to step in when needed. It is even harder when they have to come on as a sub.

Bell, Watson, Casboult, McInnes have shown "glimpses" of potential but they are a long way from being consistent AFL players. They need time. The same could easily be said for Lucas but he is thrown around so much we are damaging him. Let the kid play.

Collins, Ellard, Davies, Bootsma, White need the same consideration.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

True, it's a super fine line. I think that's why I'm reluctant to advocate wholesale changes with our club --ie turf Ratts and Co and start again -- and more aligned to tweaking the supporting cast around Ratts. It'd be cheaper for the club too, which has to be a good thing.

I just get a lingering feeling that we are really close to doing something special and starting over may be too extreme? Mind you if we get hosed by 40+ points on Sunday, maybe that will be the death knell for Ratts and it may be for the best?!

... At what point do you cut your losses with the kids? Lucas and Ellard must be close? Bootsma needs about 15kilos on his frame for AFL, imo.