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 Post subject: Best 22 minus 9
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:26 pm 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 1:04 pm
Posts: 26
Given we are missing 9 of our best 22 players this week, I thought it would be a 'fun' well 'insightful' exercise to analyse a good clubs side if they were missing 'key personnel'.

So for the exercise: I want you to take away.

Tuohy
Hampson
Henderson
Walker
Simpson
Kreuzer
Laidler
Judd
Waite

From a side.

So to relate it to another side;

Tuohy = 2nd best 'small defender'.
Hampson = 2nd ruck / target option
Henderson = Best key defender
Walker = Best mid-size forward
Simpson = Best outside midfielder / best winger
Kreuzer = Best ruckman
Laidler = Best mid size defender
Judd = Best midfielder
Waite = Best forward

I'll start with Collingwood this week; how do you think this team would go against Hawthorn?


I'll start with Collingwood this week; how do you think this team would go against Hawthorn?

B: M Clarke ---- Brown --- Tarrant
HB: B Johnson --- L Keeffe --- Toovey
C: Sinclair --- Luke Ball --- Blair
HF: A Didak--- Goldsack --- Shaw
FF: S Wellingham --- J Paine --- Krakouer

R: C Wood -- Swan -- Beams

I: Young -- Fasolo -- Seedsman – Elliot

So who did I take out:

Tuohy = O’Brien
Hampson = Dawes could argue not much difference
Henderson = Reid could argue not much difference
Walker = Sidebottom could argue not much difference
Simpson = Thomas could argue not much difference
Kreuzer = Jolly could argue not much difference
Laidler = Maxwell could argue not much difference
Judd = Pendlebury could argue not much difference
Waite = Cloke

Obviously the quality is going to be a little different at times but it gives you a good idea on what we are dealing with and perspective to the current situation our coaching group / team finds itself in. Injuries aren't an excuse but they are a reason - I am starting to say they are both; I could go further and say imagine if; Lucas equivalent isn't available as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Best 22 minus 9
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:33 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Posts: 3904
I reckon that pies team would thrash the Dogs....

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 Post subject: Re: Best 22 minus 9
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:40 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 13110
Let me get this straight. You're taken 6 All Australian players out of their team and you're saying they're comparable to our outs?
I'm having De Ja Scarponi
I'd rather compare our omissions from last weeks game with Colingwood or West Coast. Would they have been smashed by the Roos?

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 Post subject: Re: Best 22 minus 9
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:07 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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Tarrant would play forward for starters to provide structure. Remember Ratts isn't coaching that team either.


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 Post subject: Best 22 minus 9
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:09 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 4738
Location: Melbourne
King Kenny wrote:
Tarrant would play forward for starters to provide structure. Remember Ratts isn't coaching that team either.


So he wouldn't throw him back in a mad panic after Cordy takes a couple of marks?


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 Post subject: Re: Best 22 minus 9
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:14 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Location: In Transit to WA
Shouldn't this be in TalkingAFL anyway?

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 Post subject: Re: Best 22 minus 9
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:43 pm 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 1:04 pm
Posts: 26
Yeh maybe I actually didn't know there were other forums until now lol


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 Post subject: Re: Best 22 minus 9
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:40 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:01 pm
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Location: The Brown Wedge
I think Warnock is in our best 22. Or at least, compare the pair as if he is because we don't have another ruck to replace Kreuzer or Hammer, whereas Collingwood does.


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 Post subject: Re: Best 22 minus 9
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:44 am 
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formerly cj69

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am
Posts: 7893
I try but I cannot work out our best 22 at the moment and that is damning.

Don't worry about anyone else look at our list.

Who on that list has made any type of improvement in 2012??

Forget wins and loses, thats it in a nutshell, it shows we have major problems and things need to change.

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 Post subject: Re: Best 22 minus 9
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:38 am 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 1:04 pm
Posts: 26
Let's go through the list then;

CANT JUDGE DUE TO INJURY ALL YEAR

1) Waker - injured now for long periods x 2, no continuity - unfair to judge.
3) Murphy - injured season
8) Kreuzer - injured all yr basically or playing injured
11) Warnock - injured
13) Yarran - injured, now getting back to where he was
15) Laidler - injured
17) Rowe - Ill cancer
20) O'Keeffe - injured, vfl form recently good
23) Henderson - injured / when playing continues to improve but if he has op like others suggest he can't improve
25) Mitchell - played well today - been injured tho for 2 seasons
30) Waite - injured
31) Davies - injured
37) Heyne - injured
41) Casboult - tonight showed he has improved / been injured
43) White - injured

HAS IMPROVED

10) Watson - improved out of sight this season
12) Robinson - continues to improve
14) McLean - improved massively
16 ) Collins - improving
19) Betts - gone to another level
22) Hampson - for mine improved
26) McInnes - massive improvement
35) Curnow - has improved
42) Tuohy - continues to improve
44) Carrazzo - think he has improved
47) Carter - has improved but isn't good enough



HASN"T IMPROVED
2) Russell - insipid as always - think he is physically and mentally finished
4) Gibbs - hasn't improved
9) Lucas - showed more this yr than last but still not at the level since yr 1
34) Duigan - hasn't improved
36) Kerr - hasn't improved
38) Garlett - has been poor, very inconsistent
40) Jamison - injured / poor form


HAS REACHED THERE LEVEL
5) Judd - still been Judd for mine?
6) Simpson - still be the Simmo we know and love
18) Bower - good early in yr but he is finished now surelY?
27) Armfield - better this yr than last but inconsistent
29) Scotland - 32 is going to de-prove if anything lol
32) Thornton - he is what he is
45) Joseph - hard to judge, in and out of team, he is what he is a bit he isn't going to be able to get much better
46) Ellard - has got everything out of himself.

YEAR 1 / YR 2
7) Buckley - year 1
21) Bootsma - yr 1
24) McCarthy - yr 2 hard to judge still very skinny
28) Bell - yr 1 but improving
39) Dale - 1st yr


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 Post subject: Re: Best 22 minus 9
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:01 am 
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formerly cj69

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am
Posts: 7893
Rooboy. Nice list. Of your improved.

10. Watson Yes, when finally played
12. Robinson. about the same as last year
14. McLean, Back to where he was years ago but still slow
16. Collins, now he is not injured and finally getting games
19. Betts? Now main target but was good last year as well
22. Played a couple of good games early but crucified as a forward
26. Could always play
35 Curnow NO
42 Touhy YES
44 Carrazzo Same as always

and look at all the rest on your list. Not impressive is it?

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 Post subject: Re: Best 22 minus 9
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:52 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 8562
Location: Nth Fitzroy
ThePsychologist wrote:
Rooboy. Nice list. Of your improved.

10. Watson Yes, when finally played Could be argued good development. Not rushed and worked on things week to week in the reserves.
12. Robinson. about the same as last year Better than last year. Smarter not knocking himself out falling back after marks. Playing more onball.14. McLean, Back to where he was years ago but still slow
16. Collins, now he is not injured and finally getting games
19. Betts? Now main target but was good last year as well
22. Played a couple of good games early but crucified as a forward
26. Could always play Injury riddled couple of years. Now has strung games together looks good.
35 Curnow NO Better than last year. He was terrible this time last year. Looks to be going ok now as a role player.
42 Touhy YES
44 Carrazzo Same as always Playing to a level i didnt think he would reach this year. Shame about the shoulder.
and look at all the rest on your list. Not impressive is it?


Players are on the improve. Unfortunately the players we needed to improve and would have got their opportunity got injured as well. Casboult, White, Mitchell and Davies all would have had a good run of games had they not got injured.

Strange year for the Blue boys. Lets hope its a step back to go forward. Like trying to improve your golf swing.


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 Post subject: Re: Best 22 minus 9
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:14 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 5652
ThePsychologist wrote:
Rooboy. Nice list. Of your improved.

10. Watson Yes, when finally played
12. Robinson. about the same as last year
14. McLean, Back to where he was years ago but still slow
16. Collins, now he is not injured and finally getting games
19. Betts? Now main target but was good last year as well
22. Played a couple of good games early but crucified as a forward
26. Could always play
35 Curnow NO
42 Touhy YES
44 Carrazzo Same as always

and look at all the rest on your list. Not impressive is it?


What it means anyone, that's all of us, can rationalise anything to suit an argument.

Last year it really looked like we were developing, no one could argue with that. Players played well, Ratts coached well, injuries stopped us making a preliminary final. This year, full of injuries, as we've seen above, not so good, negative/conservative coaching we've hit a blip on the radar. What we have found this year is just about every kid we've promoted has shown something. That could be the one positive we take out of the year going forward. Makes our depth look better. With less negative/conservative coaching we would've have done better in that regard, although much of our depth, including some of those kids, have been injured too.

Problem is intensity and effort have been the things to deteriorate more so than players, who we can't tell much about because most have been injured. Ratts has done a great job getting us from a "nothing basket-case" to the point of challenging but things this year indicate we may need a change there just to take us to the next final step or two. Had a bad year but it might simply be the blip on the radar, which happens to many rising sides, giving us a wake up to us that just a bit of change is needed rather than go along as we are. We not as far away as many think.


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