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How poorly have we really performed? (glass half full)
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Author:  4thchicken [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  How poorly have we really performed? (glass half full)
Its widely highlighted that we'd been rubbish for the 7 weeks prior to the pies match and therefore Ratten needed to be sacked. Including the pies match, you can break it down to 2 X 4 game patches

Looking back, the dark patch of the season where performances were disappointing would be rd 7-10 where we lost 3/4 matches.

Rd 7 - loss to st kilda
rd 8 - loss to adelaide
rd 9 - beat melbourne
rd 10 - loss to port adelaide

This period coincided to when we were hit really badly with injuries/players coming back from injuries unfit (i.e. yarran)

Over the following month, we lost to geelong & WC in close games (both acceptable performances, particularly in perth off a short break), one really bad loss to the hawks and a win over the pies.

In terms of team effort/play, you would have the team having performed adequately in 3/4 (or at worst 2/4 games).

So given the above, how bad have we really been? (with respect to play/coaching). Given the players that have come back and the performance against the pies, it would not be unreasonable to think that we might actually win a fair few games from here on in.

For mine, there aren't any 'really tough to win' games - looking forward I'd rate our games as follows

north - 50/50
dogs - win
richmond - win
swans - 50/50
lions - win
Essendon* - 50/50
GCS - win
saints - 50/50

Assuming that we split the 50/50 games, that would bring us up to 13 wins for the season and a spot in the 8 - from there things will get interesting
Author:  Sydney Blue [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  How poorly have we really performed? (glass half full)
North have been in good form this friday we will know if we have turned the corner or just got up for the pies

I still think there is going to be a lot more heart ache before this seasons over
Author:  cimm1979 [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How poorly have we really performed? (glass half full)
Our losses have been appalling. No heart, no vigor and a throw back to the dark days.

If we make the 8 that'll be nice but it's a bad season.

Glass Half empty.
Author:  club29 [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How poorly have we really performed? (glass half full)
Not sure what was going on in that port game.
Author:  Goltzenberg [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How poorly have we really performed? (glass half full)
I'm hearing big reports that Carlton has offered Cloke $900k? Not sure if my mate is pulling my leg, but he isn't one to usually talk shite.

I'm sure that will help us big time in the performance stakes having a FF :)
Author:  Goltzenberg [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How poorly have we really performed? (glass half full)
I'm hearing big reports that Carlton has offered Cloke $900k? Not sure if my mate is pulling my leg, but he isn't one to usually talk shite.

I'm sure that will help us big time in the performance stakes having a FF :)
Author:  cimm1979 [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How poorly have we really performed? (glass half full)
club29 wrote:
Not sure what was going on in that port game.


Or Bombers or Crows or Saints or Hawks.

They were insipid.

If we come home with a wet sail and make the 8 I reckon our petrol tickets will be all used up.
Author:  cimm1979 [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How poorly have we really performed? (glass half full)
Goltzenberg wrote:
I'm hearing big reports that Carlton has offered Cloke $900k? Not sure if my mate is pulling my leg, but he isn't one to usually talk shite.


I'm sure that will help us big time in the performance stakes having a FF :)


Not having a functioning forwardline may have cost us a game or two.

Doesn't fix our other issues and they will be hard to fix if the salary cap is all used up on an underperformer.
Author:  BigKev [ Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How poorly have we really performed? (glass half full)
I think a lot of it has to do with expectations Chook #4.

The picture painted at the start of the season had most of us thinking top 4. After we thrashed Collingwood in Rnd 3 I reckon "most" had become "almost all". From Essendon* through to last Friday we have struggled to live up to being a genuine top 4 team.

So it comes down to expectations. If you're measuring us as a top 4 / premiership challenger then we've been poor. If you see this as another "development/consolidation" year when we may or may not scrap into the eight then we're doing ok.
Author:  Heavs [ Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How poorly have we really performed? (glass half full)
Goltzenberg wrote:
I'm hearing big reports that Carlton has offered Cloke $900k? Not sure if my mate is pulling my leg, but he isn't one to usually talk shite.

I'm sure that will help us big time in the performance stakes having a FF :)


Jeez that would be 8 years wages for you wouldn't it?
Author:  Bluey44 [ Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How poorly have we really performed? (glass half full)
We should be beaten Port Adelaide.
That performance was ridiculously woeful.

Also probably should have beaten Saints & Cats.....
It wasn't the end of the world to lose to them

BUT...

as mentioned - it's all about expectations.
We aren't improving.

We need to take the next step up and start beating these teams that were previously too classy for us.
Author:  jim [ Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How poorly have we really performed? (glass half full)
Generally we're probably a "half full" despite the crap mid-year. May still end up winning 13, which is decent but still certainly "unders" with where we should've been, but if one's is looking forward we're more likely to be heading up than down.

Hopefully it's that "lull" year (get ahead of yourself year maybe?) many rising sides have before reaching the top.
Author:  4thchicken [ Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How poorly have we really performed? (glass half full)
jim wrote:
Generally we're probably a "half full" despite the crap mid-year. May still end up winning 13, which is decent but still certainly "unders" with where we should've been, but if one's is looking forward we're more likely to be heading up than down.

Hopefully it's that "lull" year (get ahead of yourself year maybe?) many rising sides have before reaching the top.



Don't think it would be unders given the number of injuries we've had (basically double compared to previous 2 years)
Author:  jim [ Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How poorly have we really performed? (glass half full)
4thchicken wrote:
jim wrote:
Generally we're probably a "half full" despite the crap mid-year. May still end up winning 13, which is decent but still certainly "unders" with where we should've been, but if one's is looking forward we're more likely to be heading up than down.

Hopefully it's that "lull" year (get ahead of yourself year maybe?) many rising sides have before reaching the top.



Don't think it would be unders given the number of injuries we've had (basically double compared to previous 2 years)


Certainly not on face value but just the workrate in some games might lend to the "unders" theory. But I think it's a "half-full" still.
Author:  Rexy [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How poorly have we really performed? (glass half full)
I tend to think development of our young players hasn't been of the standard required for us to take the step we needed to this year so I hope the focus this year is more on recruiting proven development staff.

We have the facilities & we have the budget to be the best in developing our players, but the results aren't there AFAIC so a turnover of development staff is required.

So the question is - who and from which club do we identify as proven development staff ?
Author:  BlueBern [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How poorly have we really performed? (glass half full)
Rexy wrote:
I tend to think development of our young players hasn't been of the standard required for us to take the step we needed to this year so I hope the focus this year is more on recruiting proven development staff.

We have the facilities & we have the budget to be the best in developing our players, but the results aren't there AFAIC so a turnover of development staff is required.

So the question is - who and from which club do we identify as proven development staff ?


Do staff cause injuries?

We have about 12 players on our list that are yet to play a senior game due to injuries - Casboult, Mitchell, McCarthy et al.

The problem is that we haven't been able to see enough of them to even assess whether they're any good.
Author:  AGRO [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How poorly have we really performed? (glass half full)
Rexy wrote:
We have the facilities & we have the budget to be the best in developing our players, but the results aren't there AFAIC so a turnover of development staff is required.

So the question is - who and from which club do we identify as proven development staff ?



I have raised this point before.

We have recruited Alan Richardson who established the much lauded Collingwood Player Development Academy and who was recognised at the time as one of the leading player development coaches around.

So you would think that we should have the expertise in this important area to ensure that our Player Development Program/Academy is more than up to scratch but at the leading edge.

Either Richardson has lost his touch or his expertise has not been used fully in that area.
Author:  Blue Boys [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How poorly have we really performed? (glass half full)
4thchicken wrote:
Over the following month, we lost to geelong & WC in close games (both acceptable performances, particularly in perth off a short break), one really bad loss to the hawks and a win over the pies.


The fact is these games were losses. As a top four aspirant we should expect to win these games, which we didn't. Don't tell me how 'competitive' we were during these games and that they were acceptable performances. If we were a side expecting to battle it out at the bottom of the ladder, then they may be acceptable. I think you have been listening to Ratten for too long.

During the press conference after the Pies games Ratten took offence from a reporter that questioned the teams intensity over the previous 7 weeks. I thought it was a reasonable question. Ratten (Mr stats man) can't ignore 1 win from 7 matches.
Author:  redback [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How poorly have we really performed? (glass half full)
Our expectations have increased year by year and so they should.
We have played some good games and some pathetic effortless ones.
We have tried some kids and things look promising.
We have been hit by injuries again and have been confused by some MC decisions.
We have 7 games left and maybe finals.

We cry and rejoice week to week.

We judge our performance at seasons end. :thumbsup:
Author:  Rexy [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How poorly have we really performed? (glass half full)
BlueBern wrote:
Rexy wrote:
I tend to think development of our young players hasn't been of the standard required for us to take the step we needed to this year so I hope the focus this year is more on recruiting proven development staff.

We have the facilities & we have the budget to be the best in developing our players, but the results aren't there AFAIC so a turnover of development staff is required.

So the question is - who and from which club do we identify as proven development staff ?


Do staff cause injuries?

We have about 12 players on our list that are yet to play a senior game due to injuries - Casboult, Mitchell, McCarthy et al.

The problem is that we haven't been able to see enough of them to even assess whether they're any good.

Injury prevention and conditioning is a huge part of player development and yes there are some injuries that the best conditioning staff cant be blamed for.
Are our players physically conditioned to be durable in todays high athletic high collision style of footy ?

Skills, techniques and game style knowledge is the other crucial part of player development - it needs attention in my view.
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