Who knows how that would have affected the future as we know it.

Lets be completely ridiculously revisionist and revist every year's off-season moves since Ratts took the helm and see just how good our list could have been. Aunties with balls for everyone!

2007/2008

Spoiler

Delisted: Flint, McLaren, Raso, Teague, Young.
Retire: Whitnall, Kouta and Lappin retired.
Promoted: Jackson, A.o'hAilpin

Not one extra AFL game played between all 8 removed. Started with picks 1, 3, 20, 36, 52, 65.

Judd trade ends up being pick 1, 3 and 20 for Judd and 46.
Decide not to go with the Hadley trade, keep pick 52 and use it to draft Cale Hooker instead.
Don't promote Jackson and o'hAilpin in the end (pick 73 added which is used on Tom Bellchambers)

Pick 36, instead of Steven Browne, we take Scott Thompson (North) instead.
Pick 46 stay with Armfield
Pick 65 we take Patrick McGinnity

Pre-season draft: Instead of Pfieffer we take Stefan Martin.

Rookie draft: Pick 2 - we stay with Joseph
Pick 18 - instead of Lachlan Hill, we take Laidler 3 years earlier than we actually did.
Pick 34 - we stay with Ellard
Pick 48 - Shane Mumford instead of Michael Shields.....fair trade really.

2008/2009

Spoiler

Delisted: Ackland, Benjamin, Blackwell, (IRL - Jackson, Pfieffer and o'hAilpin, but already gone or never selected)
Retired: Saddington
Promoted: Jamison
Trade: Warnock for 24, 56, 72 (Beams, Redden or Hannebury at 24 is appealing, but nothing at 56, 72)

Didn't lose much out of those 4. By not having Jackson, Pfieffer and ohAilpin, we don't have our last pick (Caleb Tiller) and our PSD pick (Chris Johnson). Happy days. We delist Edwards a year earlier to keep pick 65.

Pick 6 - Yarran.....yeah I'll stick with that.
Pick 40 - Robinson - happy with that also. (although geez....Sloane 4 picks later)
Pick 65 - O'Keeffe. I'll swap that for Shane Savage

PSD - We end up delisting Bentick a year earlier, and take Tom Rockliff instead.

Rookie - Pick 6 - Garlett - happy with that
Pick 22 - Stanton - I'll take Jarryd Blair instead
Pick 37 - Bentley - Luke Breust thank you
Pick 51 - Greg Broughton ahead of Pfieffer
Pick 65 - Matthew Suckling rather than Lachlan Hill thanks
Pick 76 - Yeah I'll hang on to Jacobs

Geez, this was a pretty good year for our recruiting.

2009/2010

Spoiler

Delistings - Already delisted Bentick and Edwards a year early. Banno and Hartlett go. Hill and Pfieffer never retained. Delist Anderson and Wiggins instead. Cloke delisted.

Retired - Stevens

Promoted - Jacobs, Joseph, Laidler, Ellard

Trade - Fev for Henderson and pick 12. Guess we'll stick with that.

Mumford gets tired of being behind Warnock, Jacobs, Hampson and Bellchambers in the pecking order and requests a trade to Sydney for pick 28.

McLean for pick 11 becomes Ball for pick 11.

Draft -

Pick 12 - Instead of Lucas, we take Fyfe.
Pick 28 - Get Mitch Duncan from Mumford deal
Pick 43 - Pass (promote Garlett)
Pick 59 - Pass (promote Blair)

Rookie draft -

Pick 15 - Cachia. Mitch Golby instead thanks
Pick 31 - Joe Dare. Crameri might be slightly better.
Pick 44 - Casboult. Matthew Jaensch instead.
Pick 56 - White. Niall McKeever.
Pick 66 - Josh Donaldson - Claye Beams
Pick 73 - Zach Tuohy - .....retain.

2010/2011

Spoiler

Retired: No-one, Wiggins went the year before. Houlihan does though.
Delisted: Fisher, Austin, Thornton,
Trades: Jacobs and Grigg walk. Not much can do. 33 and 67, instead of Collins we get the Tambling pick.

Promoted: Breust, Broughton, Suckling

Pick 18: Jack Darling
Pick 27: Luke Parker
Pick 34: Nick Duigan

Rookie draft:

Pick 18: Ed Curnow ....nah, Luke Dahlhaus
Pick 35: Rhys O'Keeffe probably not available but we'll go with it
Pick 51: Wayde Twomey.....Ian Callinan I guess..
Pick 66: Mitch Carter....Mark Austin instead
Pick 78: Bret Thornton, mature age rookie

2011/2012

Spoiler

Delist: Joseph, Bower, Russell, o'hAilpin
Promote: Golby, Jaensch, Beams (Tuohy and McKeever international rookies for another year)

Bootsma retained.

After all that madness you end up with a list of:

Spoiler

1 Andrew Walker
2 Josh Bootsma
3 Marc Murphy
4 Bryce Gibbs
5 Josh Kennedy
6 Kade Simpson
7 Tom Rockliff
8 Chris Judd
9 Stewart Crameri
10 Cale Hooker
11 Robert Warnock
12 Mitch Robinson
13 Chris Yarran
14 Luke Ball
15 Scott Thompson
16 Jeremy Laidler
17 Lachlan Henderson
18 Tom Bellchambers
19 Eddie Betts
20 Shane Savage
21 Luke Parker
22 Shaun Hampson
23 Nat Fyfe
24 Mark Austin (r)
25 Jeff Garlett
26 Mitch Duncan
27 Dennis Armfield
28 Luke Breust
29 Heath Scotland
30 Jarrad Waite
31 Lachlan Henderson
32 Bret Thornton (r)
33 Jack Darling
34 Nick Duigan
35 Matt Suckling
36 Greg Broughton
37 Stefan Martin
38 Patrick McGinnity
39 Claye Beams
40 Michael Jamison
41 Jarryd Blair
42 Zach Tuohy (r)
43 Ian Callinan (r)
44 Andrew Carrazzo
45 Rhys O'Keeffe (r)
46 David Ellard
47 Niall McKeever (r)
48 Mitch Golby
49 Matthew Jaensch
50 Luke Dahlhaus (r)

The moral of the story?

* - We're only about $10 mill over the salary cap. Good news for Visy and the environment.
* - Even with the ability of hindsight, we still recruit more half back flankers
* - Probably wouldn't be that much closer to a premiership
* - We really didn't recruit that badly in recent years.

_________________
BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

how was marty gonna end up with lorraine when marty knew she was his mum?

unless she jumped him after her dad hit him with the car and he was passed out in her room

there was really no threat to this scenario happening

_________________
*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

This.

(or the Libyans/a wizard did it)

_________________
BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

Love the thread title! Some work gone into that mate. Hindsight hey?

_________________
Pret-ty, pret-ty, pret-ty good.

In conclusion, I'd rather speculate about what would happen if incest occurred in a kid's film rather than think about how crap our club is at the moment.

Coming up next, Twilight: If the wolf and the vampire both got a turn....

_________________
BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

nice work Rhino

_________________
Between our dreams and actions lies this world

_________________
WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

That was a fun read.

I actually don't think recruiting has been our biggest problem in recent years. Sure, we haven't nailed every pick but overall I reckon it hasn't been too bad. I say that because I look at our list and there's a lot of talented footballers who aren't playing well at the moment. That can't be the fault of the recruiters.

Not saying recruiting shouldn't be part of a full club review, but my impression is that recruiting hasn't been as big of a problem as some other areas of the club. Room for improvement, but there are bigger problems at the club, IMO.

But if we're going to talk list management, I think trading has been more of a problem than drafting for us. The big one for me is the Brock trade. We paid way over the odds, particularly when you consider how cheaply Kennedy (Swans) and Ball (Collingwood) went that year (and Tuck was on the table cheaper too). It seemed so obvious to everyone except Carlton at the time.

In the spirit of this thread, imagine if we'd pulled off the following in the 2009 trade week:

Kennedy + pick #46 from Hawthorn for pick #27 + #59
Henderson + pick #12 from Brisbane for Fevola + picks #43 + #46

We could have had picks #11 (Lucas), #12 (Talia) and #73 (Kerr) that year. And if we hadn't gone for Brock, we might have had enough room in the salary cap to keep Grigg in 2010.

So instead of Brock + Davies + Collins we'd have Kennedy + Talia + Grigg on our list right now.

Not saying that would have made all the difference in the world, but I think it's fair to say the Brock trade (which everyone seems to say was Ratten's idea) was a balls up of the Devonport/McGuane/O'Reilly/Mansfield variety. Brock is playing some OK footy at the moment, but who here wouldn't love seeing Juddy in the guts with Kennedy and Talia holding down CHB right now?

Then again, Kennedy and Talia probably wouldn't be the same players if they had walked into our club instead of Sydney and Adelaide....

Which brings us to the real problems....

_________________
It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

They should have listened to me...

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=26390&p=967497&hilit=Kennedy+gun#p967497

That's just one scenario and the object is to come out of this mess in the best shape possible, not simply to reverse back to this list's past peak.

We don't have the courage of our convictions. As soon as people speak up about things, we get all defensive. It sounds just like Sticks.

_________________
Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Good call Doc

I wonder how he would have gone with us? Unfortunately, I'm not confident that we would have got the best out of Kennedy as the Swans have done. As depressing as it is, there are a number of players on our list who I think would be better players if they were at different clubs....

Why aren't we getting the best out of our players? Do we put the entire blame on the coaching staff? FWIW - I think the coaching staff should take their share of the responsibility, but unfortunately I fear the problems extend beyond that.

_________________
It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

So you're saying we could have had a forward line with Kennedy, Darling, Crameri, Walker, Betts and Garlett?

But we've done okay?

_________________
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Kennedy's last 6 weeks with Hawthorn was awesome...I've no idea why they didn't offer him the cash he wanted. Still - it's worked out for him, but it was pretty obvious to see that he was going to be pretty good.

I'm not sure where the problem lies. I can't help but think back to when Craig Bradley was helping with our preseason in 2010 and him running behind Gibbs and Robinson with his hand in their backs as they were doing laps saying 'if you want to play in the midfield - this is the pace you need to be going...'

Fast forward to 2012 and it was quite obvious to me at a preseason session that Gibbs, Robbo and others needed that hand in the back, but weren't getting it.

Midfield goes okay too I reckon...

_________________
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Its a similar reason for why I don't want Roos at all.

Developed a great side on trading for other club's discards out of necessity. Bringing that approach to the club with our current administration in place, only gives carte blanche for the status quo of trading high draft picks for washed up players, under a different banner.

"Oh yep, we traded a first rounder for Kane Cornes, not because its what we've done to death as a club for the past 20 years, or that Sticks has hounded Roosy for months until he caved....but yeah, Roosy saw potential in him. Y'know...Moneyball and all that shit..

_________________
BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

You say Roos did that out of necessity.

If it wasn't a necessity what's to say that he'd do the same again at a different club?

_________________
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Then he's essentially an unproven candidate.

Won a flag, nearly won another and remained competitive for the length of his tenure, using a gameplan that wasn't anywhere near as effective outside of a postage stamp ground, and a recruiting policy that was based on the necessity of remaining competitive in the Sydney market against NRL, union, soccer etc.

With Lyon's saintsfooty not proving successful on the bigger ground at Subi, its a big gamble for the club to get him to try and get our current squad to do what they're not cut out to do, or ask him to come up with something different. At the same time, I think its a sneaky way of justifying continuance of shitty trade policies.

Not that its a chance, mind you, and for us to continue to say otherwise, is probably disrespectful to Sherrin.

_________________
BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?