TalkingCarlton :: View topic - 2013 and beyond...list management

What could we get for him:

- Hard to know. Club's pay a premium for ruckmen, .

Siegfried wrote:

What could we get for him:

- Hard to know. Club's pay a premium for ruckmen, .

Did someone tell Adelaide that?.. :roll:

Siegfried wrote:

What could we get for him:

- Hard to know. Club's pay a premium for ruckmen, .

Did someone tell Adelaide that?.. :roll:

No doubt we have to find out about a few of our lesser likes before we discard them. Players such as McInnes, Casboult, Mitchell, McCarthy, Rowe, Kerr, O'Keefe, Kerr, Heyne, Bell and Lodge haven't played a game of AFL but they are taking up a spot on the list. Do they warrant a spot? I like McCarthy, McInnes and O'Keefe from that bunch. Casboult and Mitchell are big boys who seem a bit slow for AFL imo, but were earmarked for a breakthrough year this year after reaching their best fitness levels ever in Qatar. I don't know if that was good enough for AFL. That's 11 players we know nothing about. Buckley is still a baby.

White, Davies, Bower, Russell, Collins, McLean, Thornton, Joseph, Curnow, Ellard lack the class needed to be a very good AFL player. So they have to go. That's 10 players.

Scotland reached his peak last year, and might have 2013 as his last.

Warnock is our best ruckman, and surely he proved his value in the WCE final last year. Consider that he has had 2 shoulder done in the preseason. TWP! How the !@#$%& was he suppose to develop upper body strength. Watch out when he does. Kreuzer is not fit, and just because his best position is ruck does not mean he is our best ruckman. Get Kreuzer fit and playing against Natanui and Cox, and then we'll decide if he should be our No 1 ruckman. I don't think he will do well against Nic Nat in a GF...isn't that what its all about?

We can't get rid of all the players mentioned above, but I'm sure most of them are excess. Too many average big guys. Too many average backmen. Too many list cloggers.

We need a new coach right now, with a game plan and roles he needs to fill from the list of players we have now. If there's a void, at least we'll know who to get rid of, what we need and who to hunt and draft.

I say tank right now. If picks will get us some ready made players then trade. Dunno about trading Warnock for picks, but I do know from the above mentioned list of excess we will not be getting any picks or players of need for them.

Need a new coach to save our opportunity.

With the situation on coaches and presidents all very much up in the air, one thing is certain - we have a list of players that needs to be developed and changed (some may think overhauled, but that is difficult to do).

So my question is what people think might be possible to strengthen the list for next year. We will probably have a top 10 draft pick in a very strong draft. What else can we do trade wise? I would ask people to try and be realistic about trades and what we can get for who etc.

I'll put this one forward for starters...

I'd seriously look at trading Warnock.

Reasons:

- Excellent tap ruck but does almost nothing around the ground. I'm not sure (but not ruling out) whether he'll be able to significantly develop that side of his game. Others who saw more of him at Freo might be able to add more here.
- I don't think we can play the 3 ruckmen in the same team. Having a player who can reasonably expect to start for other teams languishing in the twos might become problematic (assuming they can all stay fit)
- As much as I have wanted to try and develop Kreuzer as a CHF, I think that his best position for his career is going to be first ruck. Trying to turn him into a forward just isn't working. If Krezuer is settled into the first ruck (again assuming fit), there is no place for Warnock in the first 22.
- Free up money in the cap. He's probably on 300k or thereabouts, could be handy with free agency (along with McLean's 400k, although that may have already been allocated to Gibbs, Kreuzer etc)

Caveats:

- The fitness of the three ruckmen, and Rowe. If we traded Warnock, we'd want to draft a young, up and coming ruckman.
- Obviously, what we could get for him.

What could we get for him:

- Hard to know. Club's pay a premium for ruckmen, but will also know Warnock's limitations. Could we get a top 20 pick? In a strong draft, having picks say 9 and 18 could get us a couple of decent kids. And let's face it, the cupboard is a bit bare when it comes to promising kids on our list.

It was said Rowe was better than Pods - but he was struck down in unfortunate circumstances but now making a come back and will get a few games in NB this year and have a big pre season
Casboult had a super pre season and was ready to break out until he also got struck down.
We need to stop depending on Waite and will need to make a big play for a key forward if we are serious.

McLean & Warnock will free up approx $750k in wages and a good draft pick.

Big Sam will play soon and you will be the judge. Norwood fans had nothing but high praises for him. When Tayor Walker was in and out of Norwoods team in 2011 Big Sam wasn't the key player so his 2011 stats are a little slewed. He is a good honest reliable forward, leads to the right spots and takes a very good conteted mark and reliable kick. 3 minute highlights probably doesn't do him justice.. http://youtu.be/c1EoeD4Nay4

Ive got better things to do today than argue with an insufferable child.

Author:	Siegfried [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:	2013 and beyond...list management
With the situation on coaches and presidents all very much up in the air, one thing is certain - we have a list of players that needs to be developed and changed (some may think overhauled, but that is difficult to do). So my question is what people think might be possible to strengthen the list for next year. We will probably have a top 10 draft pick in a very strong draft. What else can we do trade wise? I would ask people to try and be realistic about trades and what we can get for who etc. I'll put this one forward for starters... I'd seriously look at trading Warnock. Reasons: - Excellent tap ruck but does almost nothing around the ground. I'm not sure (but not ruling out) whether he'll be able to significantly develop that side of his game. Others who saw more of him at Freo might be able to add more here. - I don't think we can play the 3 ruckmen in the same team. Having a player who can reasonably expect to start for other teams languishing in the twos might become problematic (assuming they can all stay fit) - As much as I have wanted to try and develop Kreuzer as a CHF, I think that his best position for his career is going to be first ruck. Trying to turn him into a forward just isn't working. If Krezuer is settled into the first ruck (again assuming fit), there is no place for Warnock in the first 22. - Free up money in the cap. He's probably on 300k or thereabouts, could be handy with free agency (along with McLean's 400k, although that may have already been allocated to Gibbs, Kreuzer etc) Caveats: - The fitness of the three ruckmen, and Rowe. If we traded Warnock, we'd want to draft a young, up and coming ruckman. - Obviously, what we could get for him. What could we get for him: - Hard to know. Club's pay a premium for ruckmen, but will also know Warnock's limitations. Could we get a top 20 pick? In a strong draft, having picks say 9 and 18 could get us a couple of decent kids. And let's face it, the cupboard is a bit bare when it comes to promising kids on our list.

Author:	Effes [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2013 and beyond...list management
Hampson was re-signed towards the end of last year so with Warnock out contract he could just leave without us getting any compensation.

Author:	Siegfried [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2013 and beyond...list management
Only through the pre-season draft, so could end up at GWS or GC.

Author:	AGRO [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2013 and beyond...list management
Siegfried wrote: What could we get for him: - Hard to know. Club's pay a premium for ruckmen, . Did someone tell Adelaide that?..

Author:	Siegfried [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2013 and beyond...list management
AGRO wrote: Siegfried wrote: What could we get for him: - Hard to know. Club's pay a premium for ruckmen, . Did someone tell Adelaide that?.. Yeah, I did think that when I wrote it. We sure got reamed on that one.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

2013 and beyond...list management http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31837	Page 1 of 3

Author:	Adam Chatfield [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2013 and beyond...list management
AGRO wrote: Siegfried wrote: What could we get for him: - Hard to know. Club's pay a premium for ruckmen, . Did someone tell Adelaide that?.. No apparently Tambling was worth more. But Jacobs was out of contract.

Author:	bondiblue [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2013 and beyond...list management
No doubt we have to find out about a few of our lesser likes before we discard them. Players such as McInnes, Casboult, Mitchell, McCarthy, Rowe, Kerr, O'Keefe, Kerr, Heyne, Bell and Lodge haven't played a game of AFL but they are taking up a spot on the list. Do they warrant a spot? I like McCarthy, McInnes and O'Keefe from that bunch. Casboult and Mitchell are big boys who seem a bit slow for AFL imo, but were earmarked for a breakthrough year this year after reaching their best fitness levels ever in Qatar. I don't know if that was good enough for AFL. That's 11 players we know nothing about. Buckley is still a baby. White, Davies, Bower, Russell, Collins, McLean, Thornton, Joseph, Curnow, Ellard lack the class needed to be a very good AFL player. So they have to go. That's 10 players. Scotland reached his peak last year, and might have 2013 as his last. Warnock is our best ruckman, and surely he proved his value in the WCE final last year. Consider that he has had 2 shoulder done in the preseason. TWP! How the @#$%&! was he suppose to develop upper body strength. Watch out when he does. Kreuzer is not fit, and just because his best position is ruck does not mean he is our best ruckman. Get Kreuzer fit and playing against Natanui and Cox, and then we'll decide if he should be our No 1 ruckman. I don't think he will do well against Nic Nat in a GF...isn't that what its all about? We can't get rid of all the players mentioned above, but I'm sure most of them are excess. Too many average big guys. Too many average backmen. Too many list cloggers. We need a new coach right now, with a game plan and roles he needs to fill from the list of players we have now. If there's a void, at least we'll know who to get rid of, what we need and who to hunt and draft. I say tank right now. If picks will get us some ready made players then trade. Dunno about trading Warnock for picks, but I do know from the abovementioned list of excess we will not be getting any picks or players of need for them. Need a new coach to save our opportunity.

Author:	jim [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2013 and beyond...list management
bondiblue wrote: No doubt we have to find out about a few of our lesser likes before we discard them. Players such as McInnes, Casboult, Mitchell, McCarthy, Rowe, Kerr, O'Keefe, Kerr, Heyne, Bell and Lodge haven't played a game of AFL but they are taking up a spot on the list. Do they warrant a spot? I like McCarthy, McInnes and O'Keefe from that bunch. Casboult and Mitchell are big boys who seem a bit slow for AFL imo, but were earmarked for a breakthrough year this year after reaching their best fitness levels ever in Qatar. I don't know if that was good enough for AFL. That's 11 players we know nothing about. Buckley is still a baby. White, Davies, Bower, Russell, Collins, McLean, Thornton, Joseph, Curnow, Ellard lack the class needed to be a very good AFL player. So they have to go. That's 10 players. Scotland reached his peak last year, and might have 2013 as his last. Warnock is our best ruckman, and surely he proved his value in the WCE final last year. Consider that he has had 2 shoulder done in the preseason. TWP! How the !@#$%& was he suppose to develop upper body strength. Watch out when he does. Kreuzer is not fit, and just because his best position is ruck does not mean he is our best ruckman. Get Kreuzer fit and playing against Natanui and Cox, and then we'll decide if he should be our No 1 ruckman. I don't think he will do well against Nic Nat in a GF...isn't that what its all about? We can't get rid of all the players mentioned above, but I'm sure most of them are excess. Too many average big guys. Too many average backmen. Too many list cloggers. We need a new coach right now, with a game plan and roles he needs to fill from the list of players we have now. If there's a void, at least we'll know who to get rid of, what we need and who to hunt and draft. I say tank right now. If picks will get us some ready made players then trade. Dunno about trading Warnock for picks, but I do know from the above mentioned list of excess we will not be getting any picks or players of need for them. Need a new coach to save our opportunity. System doesn't allow you to change that many. Some are list cloggers, some are simply out of form who could do well next year as they did last year. Unless he wants to go I'd keep Thornton as he provides provides insurance. Even though he was no more than a decent player at best we'd have loved Setanta to be there. Insurance would've been handy given the circumstances. Didn't think so at the time but circumstances have shown otherwise. Some other's there though you can certainly get rid of although you'd have to check contract status as well. You'd also have to work out if they're no good or just having a sh1t year remembering we near reached a preliminary final last year. You can be bad one year and great the next, ask the Eagles, wooden-spooners to guns. Often sides on the rise have that sudden horrid year before suddenly storming into flag contention the next. You won't get too much for those above and if you delist them you're playing with a pile of crappy picks. So you have to pick the right one's to chop. That's where skilled list management comes into it. We can make something out of this year by playing youngsters. You often find someone who can play and hence further develop your depth. Often years such as this are good for that for going forward. Give Mitchell, McCarthy, Dale, McInnes etc a run. Even if they struggle game time can only enhance their development.

Author:	Juddy&theKruezers [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2013 and beyond...list management
This is why replacing Ratts now is beneficial....we can get a look at more players on the list and see if they have a chance of making it....but any new coach and assistants would have to have the major say in any trades....we don't want to be trading players who may find a lease of life under a credentialed coach who knows what he's doing....

Author:	Humpers [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2013 and beyond...list management
I wonder if any of the Gold Coast kids are homesick.......has Tom Lynch signed up yet? Haven't heard much about Butcher from Port Adelaide this year - is he injured or just out of form? Anyway we can forget about being contenders until we have a true CHF. It is probably unlikely we will be able to recruit a "ready made" quality CHF so we will probably have to recruit a kid and wait a few years for him to develop. All going well our new premiership window will open in 2016.

Author:	j.scarponi [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2013 and beyond...list management
It was said Rowe was better than Pods - but he was struck down in unfortunate circumstances but now making a come back and will get a few games in NB this year and have a big pre season Casboult had a super pre season and was ready to break out until he also got struck down. We need to stop depending on Waite and will need to make a big play for a key forward if we are serious. McLean & Warnock will free up approx $750k in wages and a good draft pick.

Author:	DocSherrin III [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2013 and beyond...list management
Only problem with Casboult is that he can't kick. His marking belongs in the AFL, his kicking belongs somewhere in the suburbs. Unfortunately for him, the game is called football. Highly doubt he'll be on a list next year. With regard to Warnock - if he's traded, we'll have to pay some of his salary next year. No one is going to part with a draft pick + salary of $400k. So take $100k out of that equation.

Author:	j.scarponi [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2013 and beyond...list management
Seen him kick few goals outside 50 and seen him shank plenty too. His kicking was improving slightly...Not sure about delisting him, considering the time that was put into him if medical reports suggest his knee is cooked, just unlucky. If he is delisted I hope the recruiters can find another mature roughie that takes a towering mark and pinch hit in the ruck.

Author:	Verbal Gint [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:38 am ]
Post subject:	2013 and beyond...list management
We have 3 guys who would be first rucks in any other team. One too many for mine and I think it's Warnock who should go. He's the least versatile and probably highest paid. Draft a rookie ruck man for injury back up to avoid the situation where players like Warnock become disgruntled by playing reserves too often. Priority should be another KPF and inside mid.

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Author:	99prelim [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2013 and beyond...list management
Siegfried wrote: With the situation on coaches and presidents all very much up in the air, one thing is certain - we have a list of players that needs to be developed and changed (some may think overhauled, but that is difficult to do). So my question is what people think might be possible to strengthen the list for next year. We will probably have a top 10 draft pick in a very strong draft. What else can we do trade wise? I would ask people to try and be realistic about trades and what we can get for who etc. I'll put this one forward for starters... I'd seriously look at trading Warnock. Reasons: - Excellent tap ruck but does almost nothing around the ground. I'm not sure (but not ruling out) whether he'll be able to significantly develop that side of his game. Others who saw more of him at Freo might be able to add more here. - I don't think we can play the 3 ruckmen in the same team. Having a player who can reasonably expect to start for other teams languishing in the twos might become problematic (assuming they can all stay fit) - As much as I have wanted to try and develop Kreuzer as a CHF, I think that his best position for his career is going to be first ruck. Trying to turn him into a forward just isn't working. If Krezuer is settled into the first ruck (again assuming fit), there is no place for Warnock in the first 22. - Free up money in the cap. He's probably on 300k or thereabouts, could be handy with free agency (along with McLean's 400k, although that may have already been allocated to Gibbs, Kreuzer etc) Caveats: - The fitness of the three ruckmen, and Rowe. If we traded Warnock, we'd want to draft a young, up and coming ruckman. - Obviously, what we could get for him. What could we get for him: - Hard to know. Club's pay a premium for ruckmen, but will also know Warnock's limitations. Could we get a top 20 pick? In a strong draft, having picks say 9 and 18 could get us a couple of decent kids. And let's face it, the cupboard is a bit bare when it comes to promising kids on our list. Agree Warnock (and there's no need to beat around the bushes) is USELESS. Injury plagued, no hardness at the contest and does not cover the ground well at all. Whatever we get for him we get. All I want is a competitive beast who may be rough but doesn't like getting beaten. Another of Ratten's obsessions that saw us squander valuable dradt picks. We need to find another Jacobs or even a Maric type

Author:	Synbad [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2013 and beyond...list management
j.scarponi wrote: It was said Rowe was better than Pods - but he was struck down in unfortunate circumstances but now making a come back and will get a few games in NB this year and have a big pre season Casboult had a super pre season and was ready to break out until he also got struck down. We need to stop depending on Waite and will need to make a big play for a key forward if we are serious. McLean & Warnock will free up approx $750k in wages and a good draft pick. who said he was better than pods???? Pods is great at ground level Casboult and Rowe arent

Author:	j.scarponi [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2013 and beyond...list management
Big Sam will play soon and you will be the judge. Norwood fans had nothing but high praises for him. When Tayor Walker was in and out of Norwoods team in 2011 Big Sam wasn't the key player so his 2011 stats are a little slewed. He is a good honest reliable forward, leads to the right spots and takes a very good conteted mark and reliable kick. 3 minute highlights probably doesn't do him justice.. http://youtu.be/c1EoeD4Nay4

Author:	Synbad [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2013 and beyond...list management
j.scarponi wrote: Big Sam will play soon and you will be the judge. Norwood fans had nothing but high praises for him. When Tayor Walker was in and out of Norwoods team in 2011 Big Sam wasn't the key player so his 2011 stats are a little slewed. He is a good honest reliable forward, leads to the right spots and takes a very good conteted mark and reliable kick. 3 minute highlights probably doesn't do him justice.. http://youtu.be/c1EoeD4Nay4 Theyre his hiighlights in 2 seasons are they???? Wow!!! Look hes not a high intensity guy over a period of time. There are fast twitch fibres slow twitch fibres and transitional twitch fibres. You need more of the third.. go very hard for longer...abi like Dane Swann... Juddy seems to have more of the first variety.... Rowe is a 20 meter man... ne extended effort ... as Casboult... And nah hes no Taylor Walker.. with all your self delusion ... dont try and delude the rest of us. Casboult and Rowe... are what they are.. third rate talls. We have an over abundance of them... Again.. when is the last time Waite played 5 good games in a single block??? If he hasnt done it in the past youd have to think he is less likely to in the future. Youre blaming Ratten and teams woes on these guys not playing??? Just goes to prove what you comprehend about the art of reality.....

Author:	j.scarponi [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2013 and beyond...list management
Ive got better things to do today than argue with an insufferable child.

Author:	Synbad [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2013 and beyond...list management
j.scarponi wrote: Ive got better things to do today than argue with an insufferable child. scarps you dont even know what youre talking about do you???? the insufferable child runs rings around youre flawed id logic. "Better than ipod" "Ask any Norwood supporter" "watch these youtube highights he made only hes better than his own 3 minute highlights over 2 seasons" Youre a crack up..... I get into you cos you make me laugh... nothing else... you entertain me......