TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Playing injured or underdone players

This is a real bugbear with me.

I am not talking about niggles or sore spots but injuries that inhibit the players ability to play anywhere near their best.

I have no doubt Judd is injured and both the team and himself are paying the price. Judd has been fantastic for us and if looked after could play another 3-4 years but at the moment he is being treated with utter disrespect.

Kruezer is another one. Word is he is still having knee issues and required more surgery. He is an athletic ruckman. If he can't run he struggles. Once again no benefit to either party.

Yarran the same. Either injured or unfit. Whatever it is playing cameos at best isn't helping anybody.

To keep doing this is shortsighted and needs to be addressed. Players will always play if they can. The MC and medical department need to be stronger.

Hope we see injured players rested should the season be a write off after about round 16. Then get the developing players in and see how they go for a few games in the top league

Not ratts' fault, its the culture

Anyone have any insider knowledge re

Judd's groins & shoulders ?
Waite's back?
Thorton's butt?
Laidler's knee?

No sightings of Pat Allen?

ShanDog wrote:

Hope we see injured players rested should the season be a write off after about round 16. Then get the developing players in and see how they go for a few games in the top league

This is the other side of the coin. Look at what has happened giving guys like Bootsma & Watson a go! It just took a huge injury toll. Kids should always be given a go. Its called development.

Hope we see injured players rested should the season be a write off after about round 16. Then get the developing players in and see how they go for a few games in the top league

Waite's improving, though still no contact drills.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-ne ... 6403519598

Not ratts' fault, its the culture

Gilly34 wrote:

Not ratts' fault, its the culture

I agree with this.
Fear of loud public complaint, being trashed in the media, being seen as 'embattled blues'tm
Why isn't such and such playing...sack the board etc...would ensue.

It seems this has happened anyway, and has in fact, made everything worse.
This is largely due to the way we cover up the extent of injuries, and so people think our players are mediocre, or as in Judds case, past it.

Author:	ThePsychologist [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Playing injured or underdone players
This is a real bugbear with me. I am not talking about niggles or sore spots but injuries that inhibit the players ability to play anywhere near their best. I have no doubt Judd is injured and both the team and himself are paying the price. Judd has been fantastic for us and if looked after could play another 3-4 years but at the moment he is being treated with utter disrespect. Kruezer is another one. Word is he is still having knee issues and required more surgery. He is an athletic ruckman. If he can't run he struggles. Once again no benefit to either party. Yarran the same. Either injured or unfit. Whatever it is playing cameos at best isn't helping anybody. To keep doing this is shortsighted and needs to be addressed. Players will always play if they can. The MC and medical department need to be stronger.

Author:	Gavstar22 [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing injured or underdone players
Anyone have any insider knowledge re Judd's groins & shoulders ? Waite's back? Thorton's butt? Laidler's knee? No sightings of Pat Allen?

Author:	DocSherrin III [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing injured or underdone players
Pat never comes to us...you have to go and see him. Wouldn't surprise me if Juddy made a trip west, but I'm not au fait with anyone's injuries this year and wouldn't like to speculate.

Author:	Navy Blue Horse [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing injured or underdone players
ThePsychologist wrote: This is a real bugbear with me. I am not talking about niggles or sore spots but injuries that inhibit the players ability to play anywhere near their best. I have no doubt Judd is injured and both the team and himself are paying the price. Judd has been fantastic for us and if looked after could play another 3-4 years but at the moment he is being treated with utter disrespect. Kruezer is another one. Word is he is still having knee issues and required more surgery. He is an athletic ruckman. If he can't run he struggles. Once again no benefit to either party. Yarran the same. Either injured or unfit. Whatever it is playing cameos at best isn't helping anybody. To keep doing this is shortsighted and needs to be addressed. Players will always play if they can. The MC and medical department need to be stronger. This is the outcome when you have a coach coaching for his career....desperate times....

Author:	ShanDog [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing injured or underdone players
Hope we see injured players rested should the season be a write off after about round 16. Then get the developing players in and see how they go for a few games in the top league

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	ThePsychologist [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing injured or underdone players
ShanDog wrote: Hope we see injured players rested should the season be a write off after about round 16. Then get the developing players in and see how they go for a few games in the top league This is the other side of the coin. Look at what has happened giving guys like Bootsma & Watson a go! It just took a huge injury toll. Kids should always be given a go. Its called development.

Author:	Gavstar22 [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing injured or underdone players
Hmm got me thinking reasonably successful coach who brought players back from injury too early in desperation to make the eight Mark Harvey Didn't get him very far. Ratts please err on the side of caution. On 360 they seem to think Judd may have a back injury that's my guess as well since he didn't seem to get down to the ball well in Perth. Why can't the Blues just be honest about medical issues? Is it because the injury can be exploited/worked over by the direct opponent? are they are concerned that supporters will give up? do they have just know idea about the injury eg Waite's back?

Author:	Gilly34 [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing injured or underdone players
Not ratts' fault, its the culture

Author:	Synbad [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing injured or underdone players
Gilly34 wrote: Not ratts' fault, its the culture didn't bring the Carlton swagger with him did he?

Author:	kingkerna [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing injured or underdone players
Gavstar22 wrote: Anyone have any insider knowledge re Judd's groins & shoulders ? Waite's back? Thorton's butt? Laidler's knee? No sightings of Pat Allen? Ask Psycho, he seems to know all about our injuries.

Author:	redback [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing injured or underdone players
ThePsychologist wrote: ShanDog wrote: Hope we see injured players rested should the season be a write off after about round 16. Then get the developing players in and see how they go for a few games in the top league This is the other side of the coin. Look at what has happened giving guys like Bootsma & Watson a go! It just took a huge injury toll. Kids should always be given a go. Its called development. I believe you should give at least a handfull of games to no less than four younger players each year and no more than two at a time for a first game.

Author:	limestone [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing injured or underdone players
ShanDog wrote: Hope we see injured players rested should the season be a write off after about round 16. Then get the developing players in and see how they go for a few games in the top league Will only happen if Ratts is guaranteed next year , or is sacked, with an interim coach told to get ready for next year. Otherwise Ratts will be coaching for himself.

Author:	cimm1979 [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing injured or underdone players
You pick injured and out of form players when you have no faith in the alternatives . Ratts plays Yarran injured and he's done FA for a month. This means he has no faith in Russell, Lucas, Bower etc. Ratts plays Garlett even though he's forgotten what a Sherrin looks like. Means he has no faith in Lucas , Kerr or anyone to play FP. Ratts plays Judd injured (Judd is probably as much to blame) because he has absolutely no faith in the side to work without him.

Author:	Gavstar22 [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing injured or underdone players
Waite's improving, though still no contact drills. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-ne ... 6403519598

Author:	Blue Sombrero [ Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing injured or underdone players
I've said it elsewhere. Put all the injured players to pasture for next year. Get them off the park into hospital so they can start the pre-season on time. Collingwood did it in 2005 ish and dropped conveniently down far enough to snare Daisy and Pendles before shooting back up to the top of the ladder where it has been more or less ever since. Sometimes you have to lose a battle to win the war.

Author:	Donstuie [ Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing injured or underdone players
One of my main bugbears is people using injuries as an excuse and just accepting them as "just something you have to deal with" instead of considering the possibility that perhaps injuries (particularly when they occur with the regularity that ours do) and that the inibility of the "next tier" to step up when they occur, might be symptomatic of poor player management, poor training methods, or at worst lack of competency in our MC/fitness staff. Our fitness staff seem to never be questioned, and I think it's time questions were asked.

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Author:	Blueboy74 [ Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing injured or underdone players
Gavstar22 wrote: Waite's improving, though still no contact drills. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-ne ... 6403519598 http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/jarrad-waite-return-a-plus-for-blues/story-e6freck3-1226403519598

Author:	blues8182 [ Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing injured or underdone players
ThePsychologist wrote: This is a real bugbear with me. I am not talking about niggles or sore spots but injuries that inhibit the players ability to play anywhere near their best. I have no doubt Judd is injured and both the team and himself are paying the price. Judd has been fantastic for us and if looked after could play another 3-4 years but at the moment he is being treated with utter disrespect. Kruezer is another one. Word is he is still having knee issues and required more surgery. He is an athletic ruckman. If he can't run he struggles. Once again no benefit to either party. Yarran the same. Either injured or unfit. Whatever it is playing cameos at best isn't helping anybody. To keep doing this is shortsighted and needs to be addressed. Players will always play if they can. The MC and medical department need to be stronger. Good post Psyc, as you are no doubt aware I have placed a fair bit of stock in injuries playing a significant role in our current situation although I agree that playing underdone players or carrying injured players is not the way to go, we must be able to answer the following questions. 1) Is continuing to play the injured player going to have a detrimental effect on the player in the long or short term? if the answer is yes don't play them if the answer is no go to question 2 2) Would the replacement bring more to the team than the player that is carrying the injury? if the answer is yes play the replacement, if the answer is no providing that there is no risk of making the injury worse then the injured player can be played if it is a critical game and that player at 80% is going to give the team a better chance of winning than the fully fit replacement. UNDERDONE PLAYERS Is the player the type of player that needs to find touch before playing seniors? If the player is not the type that can slot straight back into the side, then it is foolish IMO to play them when they are underdone and we have seen examples of that this year. Again it has to be asked does the underdone player offer more than the player currently holding that position? While I have always been of the mindset that injured players come back through the reserves even if they are capable of slotting straight back in, I think that the current structure of the VFL is not entirely conducive to this, lists are also a hell of a lot smaller now than they were in the old days, which decreases the pool of available replacements and puts pressure on match committees to rush players back. There is also Media & supporter pressure to rush players back into teams when they are not traveling well, none of us like the side losing. So while I agree with your post, I can also see the difficulties that match committees face when this problem arises.

Author:	bluegirl72 [ Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing injured or underdone players
Gilly34 wrote: Not ratts' fault, its the culture I agree with this. Fear of loud public complaint, being trashed in the media, being seen as 'embattled blues'tm Why isn't such and such playing...sack the board etc...would ensue. It seems this has happened anyway, and has in fact, made everything worse. This is largely due to the way we cover up the extent of injuries, and so people think our players are mediocre, or as in Judds case, past it.

Author:	redback [ Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing injured or underdone players
bluegirl72 wrote: Gilly34 wrote: Not ratts' fault, its the culture I agree with this. Fear of loud public complaint, being trashed in the media, being seen as 'embattled blues'tm Why isn't such and such playing...sack the board etc...would ensue. It seems this has happened anyway, and has in fact, made everything worse. This is largely due to the way we cover up the extent of injuries, and so people think our players are mediocre, or as in Judds case, past it. Back when we were a power club and a successful club we couldn't give a rat’s what anyone would think. With your second statement this is nearly always the way it goes when you use a band aid approach. As far as I can see everyone talks about managing injured players but again I don't see the benefit to the player and in fact to the team in the mean time. The sad thing is that history always repeats. This is where you need strong leadership in every department to make a stand and make the hard and sensible unemotional decisions for the future of the organization. When personal pressure does enter the equation it seems that logic loses out and a sense of self preservation enters and prevails.