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Objective Look at Last Night's Problems
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31687		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  ShanDog [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Objective Look at Last Night's Problems
Now that I have stopped throwing stuff around the house, swearing at the dog and staring at the TV after I have turned off for about 20 minutes, I thought I would share what I think the problems are with the structures. Rather than the vitriol in the post-match thread, I want this one to be specifically about the plans on the ground.

Problems I noticed:
1. Ball slipping out of stoppages. Too often there was plenty of room given to Port on one side of a stoppage with no Carlton player there to cover it. The ball would be forced in that direction and Port would spread with handpasses or (in light of the conditions) just moving the ball on as best they could.

2. Forward structure. The whole game was terrible to watch whenever we actually got the ball going forward. How can it be that having Eddie Betts in the forward line on his own (or 1 on 2) as the target can make ANY sense? Where is a tall forward? The one time they finally kicked it to a Hampson/Betts combo in the forward line in the 3rd qtr there was a goal. It wasn't luck - it was how the structure SHOULD be.

3. Losing the tap. I know it's harsh to say this but Warnock was done like a dinner last night. He was shoved about by smaller ruckmen and outposition. I can only remember one or two genuine taps to advantage. Wet conditions I know, but this flowed on to not getting the ball. What needs to happen was what I saw ONCE in the second half. I think it was Hammer who spotted someone forward of the pack about 5m and with some space and he thumped it to him. Biggest 'tap' I have seen all year and we took the ball away immediately.

Noticing problems is one thing. But you gotta back it up with how to fix them. Here's my go:

1. Get back to basics with the setup at stoppages. Two men contesting the ball, one man a handball in front, 2 men behind. One player a kick forward, one a kick behind. Then standard structure from there. If the opposition are intent on clogging the stoppages, then we need to ensure than we can cover them defensively. This hasn't occurred.

2. Simple structure fix. At all times, there shalt not be Eddie Betts or Jeffy Garlett in the fwd 50 without someone over 190cm standing next to them. Thou shalt never kick to a leading Garlett or Betts. Thou shalt always kick to a leading Walker, Hampson, Waite, Henderson et al, or on their heads.

3. Open up the contests. This ties in to the stoppages but specifically deals with the taps. The ruckmen need to start tapping it away from themselves further i.e. 2-3m taps. This in turn will mean that the players contesting the ball can start a bit further out and get a run-on. This in turn will mean the aforementioned players set up to receive handballs or play defensively can start further out. And so on and so forth. This may go a long way to combat the tactic used by other teams to get plenty of their players clogging up the works, while allowing Judd etc to play their best game - receiving a tap at speed and moving the ball on. It may mean that opposition players get their hands on the ball first but if our blokes apply IMMEDIATE and UNRELENTING pressure on the ball carrier (which other teams have done to us) they will cause either an immediate turnover and result in us taking the ball away in the other direction (which other teams have done to us), or they will kick the ball under pressure back to a contested situation with less players around the ball. There, we can win the contest and run - i.e. our stronger skill.

I think these 'fixes' address the biggest structural/tactical problems our team is having right now. Contested ball, stoppages and forward line problems.

Criticisms/ideas welcome.
Author:  Hornet [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Objective Look at Last Night's Problems
Great post mate :clap:
ShanDog wrote:
1. Get back to basics with the setup at stoppages. Two men contesting the ball, one man a handball in front, 2 men behind. One player a kick forward, one a kick behind. Then standard structure from there. If the opposition are intent on clogging the stoppages, then we need to ensure than we can cover them defensively. This hasn't occurred.

...this is what I've been advocating for the last 6 weeks.

It's clear we can't get fist hands on the ball anymore so let's try and play a wall defensive side of the stoppage... try something ffs
Author:  Synbad [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Objective Look at Last Night's Problems
Whatabout the loose man in defence Port had... geez they must be good to let them do that!!! :lol:
Author:  ShanDog [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Objective Look at Last Night's Problems
I think if an extra number behind the ball is working for the other team, why not have another player in a positive role up forward? Might lead to some congestion but if the guy does a number on him and drags him out of the play as much as possible, it could work. Not sure if this has been tried too much but is surely worth a go for a qtr perhaps.
Author:  j.scarponi [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Objective Look at Last Night's Problems
We have to stop fumbling first would be nice, we do OK'ish in the clearances but contested stuff not so good. Decision making is woeful doesnt help when there is no forward structure due to all our tall forwards being out injured.
Author:  Synbad [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Objective Look at Last Night's Problems
j.scarponi wrote:
We have to stop fumbling first would be nice, we do OK'ish in the clearances but contested stuff not so good. Decision making is woeful doesnt help when there is no forward structure due to all our tall forwards being out injured.

tall forwards?
Rowe
Casboult
Mitchell
Waite
Kreuzer

right???
Author:  j.scarponi [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Objective Look at Last Night's Problems
Henderson, Thornton...too
Author:  Synbad [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Objective Look at Last Night's Problems
j.scarponi wrote:
Henderson, Thornton...too

So Henderson is a forward now?
And Thornton doesnt get the chop every time he plays???
Look mate... youre making stuff up as you go along.

I dont mind T Bird... and whoever else... you wanna add to your bag of excuses... but thats not why we were humiliated.

Mirages are just that!!!
Author:  j.scarponi [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Objective Look at Last Night's Problems
Not excuses, just facts, we have no structure unless we get few players back
Author:  Synbad [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Objective Look at Last Night's Problems
j.scarponi wrote:
Not excuses, just facts, we have no structure unless we get few players back

Which players do we need back again to be competitive according to your bag of excses and facts??


Show me your best 22
Author:  j.scarponi [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Objective Look at Last Night's Problems
Just two key forwards would be a decent start.
Author:  Synbad [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Objective Look at Last Night's Problems
Which two???
Author:  j.scarponi [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Objective Look at Last Night's Problems
Doesnt matter providing they can contest and bring ball to ground instead of opposition defence having field days
Author:  Synbad [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Objective Look at Last Night's Problems
j.scarponi wrote:
Doesnt matter providing they can contest and bring ball to ground instead of opposition defence having field days

Casboult and Rowe???

Who did we have last season Scaponi???
Author:  Roy [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Objective Look at Last Night's Problems
Synbad wrote:
j.scarponi wrote:
Henderson, Thornton...too

So Henderson is a forward now?
And Thornton doesnt get the chop every time he plays???
Look mate... youre making stuff up as you go along.

I dont mind T Bird... and whoever else... you wanna add to your bag of excuses... but thats not why we were humiliated.

Mirages are just that!!!


T-Bird has not been up to scratch and not following his role in the side. This is why he has been dropped 3 times this year.
Author:  Synbad [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Objective Look at Last Night's Problems
So the coaching people dont think T Bird follows instructions and everyone else is.

Regardless... he gets dropped 3 times. So this club in effect admit he isnt up to making a difference.. and yet Scaponi uses him as a name thats missing for us to beat Port???

Personally i think if thats why players get dropped... and its T Bird... means everybody else is followng instructions.
Author:  j.scarponi [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Objective Look at Last Night's Problems
Synbad wrote:
j.scarponi wrote:
Doesnt matter providing they can contest and bring ball to ground instead of opposition defence having field days

Casboult and Rowe???

Who did we have last season Scaponi???


Same problems last year ..much much worse this year..at least henda gave some structure in backline and Liadler played tall when Jamo was out. Duigan was firing...carrazzo & murphy were fit and gave plenty of drive with Judd...Irish had his moments and Walker was on fire.. Thornton was serviceable when he played...its farcical this year. Can not even compare
Author:  Synbad [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Objective Look at Last Night's Problems
No a week by week
Collingwood Carlton injury vs performance review.

Break it down!!!
Author:  Mil Hanna [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Objective Look at Last Night's Problems
ShanDog wrote:
3. Losing the tap. I know it's harsh to say this but Warnock was done like a dinner last night. He was shoved about by smaller ruckmen and outposition. I can only remember one or two genuine taps to advantage. Wet conditions I know, but this flowed on to not getting the ball. What needs to happen was what I saw ONCE in the second half. I think it was Hammer who spotted someone forward of the pack about 5m and with some space and he thumped it to him. Biggest 'tap' I have seen all year and we took the ball away immediately.



I know stats are not everything, but you've got this one wrong unfortunately.

Last night's hitouts:

Player HO(No.) To Advantage(%)

Warnock 42 31
Hamson 14 29

Renouf 24 38
Redden 15 33


So whilst our ruckman were slightly less efficient with their hitouts, it probably evened out due to the fact that they won the overall tally 56-39, in fact we still had the better of it.

What it shows is that we have no well-executed structure at the stoppages that can either deny them of the ball and provide our on-ballers with clear space or bottle things up when we don't win the hitout.

The difference over the past 6 weeks is that we have not changed the formula that was so successful against Collingwood one bit and other teams can pick it apart with ease. Couple that with no intent or desire for the contest and you get what we have now which is pure crud....
Author:  Hornet [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Objective Look at Last Night's Problems
Roy wrote:
Synbad wrote:
j.scarponi wrote:
Henderson, Thornton...too

So Henderson is a forward now?
And Thornton doesnt get the chop every time he plays???
Look mate... youre making stuff up as you go along.

I dont mind T Bird... and whoever else... you wanna add to your bag of excuses... but thats not why we were humiliated.

Mirages are just that!!!


T-Bird has not been up to scratch and not following his role in the side. This is why he has been dropped 3 times this year.

Didn't meet the quota by kicking 3 goals against GWS?
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