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Before you get too carried away consider the following...
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31678		 Page 1 of 6
Author:  4thchicken [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Before you get too carried away consider the following...
The impact of injuries - The list is broken into 2 parts
- first section - currently injured players
- second section those with heavily injury interrupted seasons (i.e. likely to impact performance). Its fairly comprehensive but I'm probably missing one or two things (i.e. seem to recall collins injured earlier in the year but can't find it so not included, haven't included Judd's shoulder etc)

Players that have played senior football/best 22 at time of injury
Carrazzo - Shoulder - 4 weeks (missed 6 thus far)
Waite - Back - 1 week? (missed 3 thus far)
Laidler - Knee - probably 4 weeks (missed 6 thus far)
Murphy - Shoulder - 7-10 weeks (missed 2 thus far)
Henderson - groin - 1 week? (missed 2 thus far)
Duigan - calf - 1 week? (missed 2 thus far, missed 2 earlier in season + heavily interrupted preseason)
Thornton - glut strain - 1 week (missed 2 thus far)
kreuzer - hamstring? - late withdrawal tonight (missed 1 thus far)

Players that have been played/contributed in seniors previously
Davies - Shoulder - 5 weeks (missed most of season thus far)
White - Knee - 10 weeks (missed most of season thus far)

Players that were expected to push into the team this year/be around the mark but are currently injured
Casboult - Knee - 4 weeks (injured since end of march)
Rowe - Testicular Cancer -Indefinite

Non-important players/development players injured
Heyne - hamstring - 4 week



Best 22 players that played against port but have had injury interrupted seasons
warnock - shoulders - has missed 8 weeks + most of preseason
yarran - toe - has missed 4 weeks
jamison - back - has missed 2 weeks + 1/2 of preseason
walker - quad - has missed 4 weeks + a few weeks of preseason
armfield - knee - missed 1 week but still appears sore

Players that were expected to push into the team this year/that have had interrupted seasons
Mitchell - shoulder redo - 2nd game back in ressies, missed 12 weeks or so
Buckley - finger - 2-3rd game back in resizes, missed about 8 weeks?
o'keefe - foot - missed about 12 weeks
dale - missed a few weeks with a calf - was a travelling emergency this week

Non-important players/development players with injury interrupted seasons
bell - abductor+back? - about 10 weeks
mciness - back? - missed a lot of weeks
bray - shoulder - missed a lot of weeks, only been back in resizes for 3-4 weeks?
carter - back - missed a lot of weeks
Author:  out of harmes' way [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Before you get too carried away consider the following..
Before we get too carried away...we are NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Ratts as Gough once said: " It's time."
Author:  Dominator_7 [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Before you get too carried away consider the following..
No excuses... Good sides can handle having injuries and still do the job over the opposition. Just look at Collingwood...
Author:  j.scarponi [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Before you get too carried away consider the following..
I think it was obvious the team played without structure and that was due to personel.
Author:  j.scarponi [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Before you get too carried away consider the following..
Dominator_7 wrote:
No excuses... Good sides can handle having injuries and still do the job over the opposition. Just look at Collingwood...


Collingwood still have structure.. a full forward and half forward..!

Probably would have made a big difference in todays game and applied score board pressure then who knows what?
Author:  99prelim [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Before you get too carried away consider the following..
We played a random game with no intensity and no direction. We are shit!!!!!!!!!!!!
Author:  sticksaftersiren87 [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Before you get too carried away consider the following..
Pies beat Adelaide at AAMI without Tarant, brown, swan, ball, Reid, Johnson, mccaffer, and Keefe off in 3rd qtr.
Author:  SurreyBlue [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Before you get too carried away consider the following..
Excuses......not interested. We have been building a list for 5 years now.
Author:  Mark J [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Before you get too carried away consider the following..
Dominator_7 wrote:
No excuses... Good sides can handle having injuries and still do the job over the opposition. Just look at Collingwood...


+1
+2
+3
+100
+1000
+10000000
+A BAZILLION FFS :mad: :banghead:
Author:  The_Cranium [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Before you get too carried away consider the following..
Injuries don't dictate effort, commitment and a desire to compete.

But hey, we are that good we can actually talk about 'resting' players and how well Geelong did it last year. Since the Giants game the 'resting' has spread like a cancer through the whole club and one man is to blame for it. Brett Ratten is where the buck stops. It is his responsibility for the malaise that has taken grip of this team. Injuries or not, it is the attitude that has been the downfall of the team
Author:  4thchicken [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Before you get too carried away consider the following..
To simplify the above list...

Currently injured are
- one of our top rucks (kreuzer)
- 2 of our top 3 mids (murphy/carazzo)
- 3 of our starting back line (laidler, duigan, henderson)
- 1 key forward (waite)

- 3 2nd choice 3rd tall utility (thornton/white/davies)
- 2 key forward options (rowe/casboult)

Also 'unpickable' due to massive injury interruptions
- 1 key forward (mitchell)
- 1 mid/utility (o'keefe)

I'd argue thats 14 of our top 32 players (o'keefe the only debatable one)

Then add in the following players who are significantly below their physical best
- 1 ruck (warnock)
- 2 of the back 6 (yarran/jamison)
- 2 utilities (walker, armfield)

Whilst the way the team has played in recent weeks has been of concern to me, I think the injury list is a significant contributor to our woes. At this stage, top 4 is out the window and I'd be happy for the team to be list managed into the 8 as healthy as possible. We would still have the talent to give it a good shake PROVIDED the list is relatively healthy
Author:  ThePsychologist [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Before you get too carried away consider the following..
It's that type of reasoning that will ensure our demise
Author:  Hornet [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Before you get too carried away consider the following..
j.scarponi wrote:
Dominator_7 wrote:
No excuses... Good sides can handle having injuries and still do the job over the opposition. Just look at Collingwood...


Collingwood still have structure.. a full forward and half forward..!

Probably would have made a big difference in todays game and applied score board pressure then who knows what?

The Pois manage to win or break even at the stoppages even with half their best mids missing... therefore their structures look better.

We're missing Carrazzo & Murphy and have been destroyed in the middle since rd 3, bar the Dees game.

We can have (and have had) Henerson & Waite in, and nothing will change.

Need another plan for clearance and stoppage work... whenever you're ready Ratts
Author:  j.scarponi [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Before you get too carried away consider the following..
If we had 3 talls in the forward line bringing the ball to ground where small forwards are locking in the ball in forward 50 then we would have had some structure. they wouldnt have rebounded so easy, they wouldnt have pressed so easy to our half back line.
Author:  MPH78 [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Before you get too carried away consider the following..
4thchicken wrote:
The impact of injuries - The list is broken into 2 parts
- first section - currently injured players
- second section those with heavily injury interrupted seasons (i.e. likely to impact performance). Its fairly comprehensive but I'm probably missing one or two things (i.e. seem to recall collins injured earlier in the year but can't find it so not included, haven't included Judd's shoulder etc)

Players that have played senior football/best 22 at time of injury
Carrazzo - Shoulder - 4 weeks (missed 6 thus far)
Waite - Back - 1 week? (missed 3 thus far)
Laidler - Knee - probably 4 weeks (missed 6 thus far)
Murphy - Shoulder - 7-10 weeks (missed 2 thus far)
Henderson - groin - 1 week? (missed 2 thus far)
Duigan - calf - 1 week? (missed 2 thus far, missed 2 earlier in season + heavily interrupted preseason)
Thornton - glut strain - 1 week (missed 2 thus far)
kreuzer - hamstring? - late withdrawal tonight (missed 1 thus far)

Players that have been played/contributed in seniors previously
Davies - Shoulder - 5 weeks (missed most of season thus far)
White - Knee - 10 weeks (missed most of season thus far)

Players that were expected to push into the team this year/be around the mark but are currently injured
Casboult - Knee - 4 weeks (injured since end of march)
Rowe - Testicular Cancer -Indefinite

Non-important players/development players injured
Heyne - hamstring - 4 week



Best 22 players that played against port but have had injury interrupted seasons
warnock - shoulders - has missed 8 weeks + most of preseason
yarran - toe - has missed 4 weeks
jamison - back - has missed 2 weeks + 1/2 of preseason
walker - quad - has missed 4 weeks + a few weeks of preseason
armfield - knee - missed 1 week but still appears sore

Players that were expected to push into the team this year/that have had interrupted seasons
Mitchell - shoulder redo - 2nd game back in ressies, missed 12 weeks or so
Buckley - finger - 2-3rd game back in resizes, missed about 8 weeks?
o'keefe - foot - missed about 12 weeks
dale - missed a few weeks with a calf - was a travelling emergency this week

Non-important players/development players with injury interrupted seasons
bell - abductor+back? - about 10 weeks
mciness - back? - missed a lot of weeks
bray - shoulder - missed a lot of weeks, only been back in resizes for 3-4 weeks?
carter - back - missed a lot of weeks


Already got your submission to the board done ratts? :lol:

It is my hope that the decision makers really delve deep to fully ascertain why we are playing spiritless, soft, uncompetitive football week after week.
Author:  Hornet [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Before you get too carried away consider the following..
SurreyBlue wrote:
Excuses......not interested. We have been building a list for 5 years now.

Yeah this...
Author:  Juddy&theKruezers [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Before you get too carried away consider the following..
Hornet wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
Excuses......not interested. We have been building a list for 5 years now.

Yeah this...

But it took Bomber 8....
Author:  doofdoof [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Before you get too carried away consider the following..
4thchicken wrote:
To simplify the above list...

Currently injured are
- one of our top rucks (kreuzer)
- 2 of our top 3 mids (murphy/carazzo)
- 3 of our starting back line (laidler, duigan, henderson)
- 1 key forward (waite)

- 3 2nd choice 3rd tall utility (thornton/white/davies)
- 2 key forward options (rowe/casboult)

Also 'unpickable' due to massive injury interruptions
- 1 key forward (mitchell)
- 1 mid/utility (o'keefe)

I'd argue thats 14 of our top 32 players (o'keefe the only debatable one)

Then add in the following players who are significantly below their physical best
- 1 ruck (warnock)
- 2 of the back 6 (yarran/jamison)
- 2 utilities (walker, armfield)

Whilst the way the team has played in recent weeks has been of concern to me, I think the injury list is a significant contributor to our woes. At this stage, top 4 is out the window and I'd be happy for the team to be list managed into the 8 as healthy as possible. We would still have the talent to give it a good shake PROVIDED the list is relatively healthy


whatever helps you sleep tonight bud.

rots been around since Essendon* game and our best 22 were largely on the park that day.
Author:  4thchicken [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Before you get too carried away consider the following..
On structure.

Prior to the start of the season, MOST people on this board would have had carlton's starting back 6 along the lines of

FB - laidler jamison touhy
HB - yarran henderson duigan

Anyone vehemently disagree with that?

Of the above back 6, laidler, henderson and duigan are injured atm and prior to the port game, Yarran had played <1 game in the past month due to injury (as a sub).

Of the options that would normally come in to fill up our back line, thornton, white and davies are all unavailable due to injuries.

Bower, watson and mccarthy (development player) were the only other defenders that were available - 2 of which played.

Again, does anyone disagree with that?

If you look up forward and our key forwards - prior to the season, MOST people would have had waite + one other tall as the key forward. True?

Assuming Rowe was the 1st choice to complement waite...
CHF - Waite - injured
FF - Rowe - unavailble

mitchell (2nd choice) - unavailable
casboult (3rd choice) - injured
kreuzer (4th choice) - injured
thornton (5th choice) - injured

Its basically hampson and not much else available to be picked atm.

Again - does anyone vehemently disagree with the above?
Author:  bluehammer [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Before you get too carried away consider the following..
OK, I've considered it.

Still feel the same I'm afraid 4C
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