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Premiership player to premiership coach?
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Author:  redback [ Wed May 16, 2012 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Premiership player to premiership coach?
I've had countless discussions with my brother over the years about Ratten.
I loved his tenacity as a player and what he stood for.
I wasn't too enthralled when he was appointed head coach as I would have wanted someone more of a harder edged type.
He grew on me last year with his harder stance of demanding more feriocity from his players and what Carlton stands for.
Unfortunately with what I have heard and seen this year he has lost me again some what.
By that I mean all the delegation, the lack of match day moves or delayed reaction and just the on going stat quotations.
I'd love him to be our next premiership coach but I think he needs to get tougher with the group and get back in the coach's box and take control.
Author:  SurreyBlue [ Wed May 16, 2012 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Premiership player to premiership coach?
Ratts will be fine. The players need to bloody get tougher and support him. A coach cannot get out there and become physical!
Yep I disagree with some of his setups, selections, etc but he has improved us every year since being in-charge.
He cannot do much more than that but the pressure is on this year and he needs to keep delivering.
We should not and do not accept mediocrity at CFC. He knows it being a Carlton man too.
I hope he becomes a premiership coach - but I'm starting to doubt it with this group of players, so lets see how he handles it.
Author:  Ciccio [ Wed May 16, 2012 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Premiership player to premiership coach?
You reminded me of something i heard. The carlton psycologist at the time reflected on his experience working hawthorn and then carlton. He said at hawthorn they "demanded success" whilst at carlton they (and i quote) "@#$%&! expected success".

Ratts comes from that era. I think ratts will fall in his sword if he things he is not delivering.
Author:  Synbad [ Wed May 16, 2012 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Premiership player to premiership coach?
Ciccio wrote:
You reminded me of something i heard. The carlton psycologist at the time reflected on his experience working hawthorn and then carlton. He said at hawthorn they "demanded success" whilst at carlton they (and i quote) "!@#$%& expected success".

Ratts comes from that era. I think ratts will fall in his sword if he things he is not delivering.

he might be dropped onto his sword if he isnt delivering but he wont be falling on it.

rudi webster is the psychologist.. i think also did the west indies cricket team.

imagine pumping up the west indies fast bowlers.... top gig!!! :lol:
the couch for joel garner would have been extra big

and i would get to the bottom of collis kings gold jewellry.... must be worth abit these days

also imagine telling greenidge he has an outside the off stump fetish and he shouldnt
Author:  redback [ Wed May 16, 2012 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Premiership player to premiership coach?
SurreyBlue wrote:
Ratts will be fine. The players need to bloody get tougher and support him. A coach cannot get out there and become physical!Yep I disagree with some of his setups, selections, etc but he has improved us every year since being in-charge.
He cannot do much more than that but the pressure is on this year and he needs to keep delivering.
We should not and do not accept mediocrity at CFC. He knows it being a Carlton man too.
I hope he becomes a premiership coach - but I'm starting to doubt it with this group of players, so lets see how he handles it.


Well if the players aren't tough enough whos job is it to make that happen?
Who run the show?
The players?
The assistant coach's?
The boot studder? :idea:

Ratten has to take control.
His way and only his way.
There can only be one.
Author:  SurreyBlue [ Wed May 16, 2012 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Premiership player to premiership coach?
redback wrote:
Well if the players aren't tough enough whos job is it to make that happen?
Who run the show?
The players?
The assistant coach's?
The boot studder? :idea:

Ratten has to take control.
His way and only his way.
There can only be one.


Can't turn something into something it's not :idea:
Some of our players should start ballet and get off the footy field, maybe they will feel at home on stage.
Enough is enough. You either play for your teammates and for each other or make way give some-one that gives a shit a go!
Author:  Pafloyul [ Wed May 16, 2012 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Premiership player to premiership coach?
SurreyBlue wrote:
redback wrote:
Well if the players aren't tough enough whos job is it to make that happen?
Who run the show?
The players?
The assistant coach's?
The boot studder? :idea:

Ratten has to take control.
His way and only his way.
There can only be one.


Can't turn something into something it's not :idea:


Well, you said it! How can they 'get themselves tough' if they don't have it in them? It's about time we owned up to what we have got and try to complement ours strengths to make it work in spite of it all.

You can add a player or two to change the dynamic but we can't be who we are not. A good coach should be getting the best out of what they have regardless of not looking like last years premiers or what have you.
Author:  Wangers [ Wed May 16, 2012 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Premiership player to premiership coach?
We need one or two more naturally hard at it inside midfielders that take no shit from anyone and will look after those around them - an angry physical Jordan Lewis type or maybe Brad Sewell type. We have only Robbo really cracking in, but nobody else. Juddy should not be the inside midfielder we rely on, either.
We are still mentally fragile and teams will use this for the rest of the year. Just hope our blokes turn this around and dispell the perception/reality.
Author:  Pafloyul [ Wed May 16, 2012 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Premiership player to premiership coach?
It's not about having a couple of onballers known for their toughness, it's about having the required players, onballers and otherwise, and being able to get into their heads a clear path to be able to envisage the ultimate prize. In other words, it's about talent, tactics and self-belief.

We have much (but certainly not all) of the first (talent) but not the second or third. The first should dictate the second and if you get that right, the third becomes a lot easier. It's just that I'm not sure if Ratten is the right man to help with all that.
Author:  camel [ Thu May 17, 2012 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Premiership player to premiership coach?
Ciccio wrote:
You reminded me of something i heard. The carlton psycologist at the time reflected on his experience working hawthorn and then carlton. He said at hawthorn they "demanded success" whilst at carlton they (and i quote) "!@#$%& expected success".


And therein lies the problem, perhaps?

Demanded = an expectation that hard work and continual improvement is required, along with doing what it takes. Doing.

Expected = it's gonna happen because we've been successful in the past, just wait and see. It has to. Waiting.
Author:  Ciccio [ Thu May 17, 2012 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Premiership player to premiership coach?
Oh my interpretation of the expected was the culture under john elliot was basically deliver or your out! There was no waiting i can assure you.
Author:  Ciccio [ Thu May 17, 2012 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Premiership player to premiership coach?
Synbad wrote:
Ciccio wrote:
You reminded me of something i heard. The carlton psycologist at the time reflected on his experience working hawthorn and then carlton. He said at hawthorn they "demanded success" whilst at carlton they (and i quote) "!@#$%& expected success".

Ratts comes from that era. I think ratts will fall in his sword if he things he is not delivering.

he might be dropped onto his sword if he isnt delivering but he wont be falling on it.

rudi webster is the psychologist.. i think also did the west indies cricket team.

imagine pumping up the west indies fast bowlers.... top gig!!! :lol:
the couch for joel garner would have been extra big

and i would get to the bottom of collis kings gold jewellry.... must be worth abit these days

also imagine telling greenidge he has an outside the off stump fetish and he shouldnt


I think his name was anthony stewart or something similar. This going back to the mid to late 90's.
Author:  jimmae [ Fri May 18, 2012 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Premiership player to premiership coach?
I find it odd when people say he is not taking control by being down on the boundary line. I think that's exactly what it is. He leaves the periphery view to those perfectly capable of delivering tactical info (just like most of us sitting up in the stands, it's not too hard to see what's going on structurally there, particularly when you have 4 coaches trained on each aspect of our structure the whole game), and he goes to the source of most of our spills and thrills on match day: the players.

He'll need to be up in the box for some games or maybe the odd quarter so he can ensure something's not being missed and so he can keep himself fully accountable for what's happening, but otherwise I think his approach of being on the bench is exactly the style you need to make the greatest impact on what's happening out on the field. Any perceived rigidity would likely come from elsewhere, though I don't see much rigidity in our play through the middle.
Author:  redback [ Fri May 18, 2012 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Premiership player to premiership coach?
jimmae wrote:
I find it odd when people say he is not taking control by being down on the boundary line. I think that's exactly what it is. He leaves the periphery view to those perfectly capable of delivering tactical info (just like most of us sitting up in the stands, it's not too hard to see what's going on structurally there, particularly when you have 4 coaches trained on each aspect of our structure the whole game), and he goes to the source of most of our spills and thrills on match day: the players.

He'll need to be up in the box for some games or maybe the odd quarter so he can ensure something's not being missed and so he can keep himself fully accountable for what's happening, but otherwise I think his approach of being on the bench is exactly the style you need to make the greatest impact on what's happening out on the field. Any perceived rigidity would likely come from elsewhere, though I don't see much rigidity in our play through the middle.


A head coach or leader shouldn't wait for info from his deputies.
I think sometimes he waits too long and doesn't take action fast enough.
He's the head coach and should want the best vantage point to make assessments and react accordingly.
Everyone he needs to consult immediately or has the expertise is within arms lenght and everyone is conversing about a specific subject together.
When you have a young group I can see the advantage of coaching from the side lines but personally I think that time has passed.
I can't see why he can pick and choose what game or quarter he should be up or down the way you have explained too unless I've missed an alternative meaning.
If you mean we have to play through the middle also I cannot disagree with your point on that unless I've missed something again.
Author:  jimmae [ Fri May 18, 2012 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Premiership player to premiership coach?
That's like saying CEOs shouldn't appoint managers and secretaries...
Author:  bluegirl72 [ Fri May 18, 2012 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Premiership player to premiership coach?
Yes.
I believe he will do both.
Author:  redback [ Fri May 18, 2012 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Premiership player to premiership coach?
jimmae wrote:
That's like saying CEOs shouldn't appoint managers and secretaries...



They do, but do they take his spot in the boardroom too.
Author:  jimmae [ Fri May 18, 2012 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Premiership player to premiership coach?
redback wrote:
jimmae wrote:
That's like saying CEOs shouldn't appoint managers and secretaries...



They do, but do they take his spot in the boardroom too.

Organisational approaches vary...
Author:  aramari [ Fri May 18, 2012 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Premiership player to premiership coach?
I've found Ratten's reversion to parroting stats after a poor game disappointing. I know talking to the media is different to talking to the players, but I suspect the Rain Man thing is part of his makeup as a coach. He's improved, but he often looks like he's had Julia Gillard's media trainer. Like the "real Julia", we've seen angry Ratts, cocky Ratts, tough Ratts.

I'm not saying he isn't a genuine person or a talented footy brain, just that his natural persona is shy and nerdy. He's done a terrific job in overcoming these traits to a degree, but the
guy just isn't a natural communicator or a powerful personality. Both elements are important in leading, teaching, inspiring and setting an uncompromising agenda.
Author:  jimmae [ Fri May 18, 2012 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Premiership player to premiership coach?
What happened to the idea of a quiet strength?
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