TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Andrew McKay - General Manager Football Operations

Better stats to look at and consider with regard to recruitment of midfielders are metres gained per match and retained possession from disposal. There are a few kids not considered draft worthy until the second round of this draft who fare very well in the aforementioned areas. But because they're south of 180cm and the current vogue is big-bodied mids, they slip down the order rather than go up.

That would be great if they were all playing the same game style under the same coach Doc.

Why can't you just wait until trade week is over before attacking ?

If nothing else happens this week and we don't get Docherty questions really need to be asked of McKay.

Why can't you just wait until trade week is over before attacking ?

ThePsychologist wrote:

If nothing else happens this week and we don't get Docherty questions really need to be asked of McKay.

I hear that we had 'planned' to have many more picks inside 40

Mick wanted to make changes to out list. It's his suggestion that 80% of the changes come via the draft and not necessarily trade.

The question is do you blame those doing the wheeling and dealing or the recruiting peoples who have selected players that no other clubs want?

trublu wrote:

ThePsychologist wrote:

If nothing else happens this week and we don't get Docherty questions really need to be asked of McKay.

Both. How Hughes is still at the club is beyond me and I have serious doubts about the McKay selection. Once again no due diligence or process in getting someone with NO experience in the role. We have recruited some very average players and put them on some nice contracts. As such our hands are tied.

McKay started in the role in late 2011. It's not even 2 years in so its bit shit to generalise and blame him for where we are.

Don't agree. If you can't make an assessment on someone after 2 years then something is seriously wrong.

Author:	limestone [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Andrew McKay - General Manager Football Operations
DocSherrin wrote: GET OSKER!!!

Author:	camel [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Andrew McKay - General Manager Football Operations
limestone wrote: GET OSKER!!! Before West Coast does!

Author:	Bluey44 [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Andrew McKay - General Manager Football Operations
Maybe these guys ?

Author:	DocSherrin III [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Andrew McKay - General Manager Football Operations
Bluey44 wrote: Maybe these guys ? Recruiting based on sabermetrics could work in Australian Rules Football - but not in the same way as baseball. Nearly every event in baseball can be categorized and quantified: walk or strikeout, homerun or flyout, ball or strike. Aussie Rules lacks baseball’s clarity: Did Dennis Armfield execute a good shepherd, or not? When to kick - when to handball. How do you measure that when it's not black and white? The only way to do it from a coaching point of view is separate the field into three and execute more set-plays from the stoppages. If you viewed each stoppage as a 'down' in American Football parlance, and had set plays called by a midfielder at that stoppage - then you could possibly justify using a data-driven approach to game plans and therefore - enhance your list management based on that. I'm a firm believer that Geelong has been doing that for a few years. Their 'outer circle' at the stoppage changes depending on where they are on the ground - but in essence, all their midfielders have a defined zone and role at the stoppage. Carlton is very ad-hoc depending on the opponent. But anyone who looked at stats from the AFL in 2013 saw that many of the traditional Champion Data stats went out the window. Our traditional stats look like this: Disposals: 341.5 (16th) Contested possession differential: +8.2 (3rd) Tackles: 64.0 (9th) Clearance differential: +3.6 (3rd) Inside-50 differential: +2.0 (10th) Scoring % inside 50: 51.9% (5th) Av points for: 96.6 (8th) Av points against: 90.5 (9th) Av winning margin: 30 Av losing margin: 18 AS for uncontested possession - only Simpson, Scotland and Walker made the top 50. Gibbs the only other to finish inside the top 100. Better stats to look at and consider with regard to recruitment of midfielders are metres gained per match and retained possession from disposal. There are a few kids not considered draft worthy until the second round of this draft who fare very well in the aforementioned areas. But because they're south of 180cm and the current vogue is big-bodied mids, they slip down the order rather than go up.

Author:	Blue Vain [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Andrew McKay - General Manager Football Operations
DocSherrin wrote: Better stats to look at and consider with regard to recruitment of midfielders are metres gained per match and retained possession from disposal. There are a few kids not considered draft worthy until the second round of this draft who fare very well in the aforementioned areas. But because they're south of 180cm and the current vogue is big-bodied mids, they slip down the order rather than go up. That would be great if they were all playing the same game style under the same coach Doc. Look at us for example. Our retained possession would be abysmal as we are instructed to kick long. hence our substantial increase in contested marking stat. It's not that we've become substantially better at contested marking, its the increase in aerial contests that have distorted the figures.

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Andrew McKay - General Manager Football Operations http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30949	Page 9 of 11

Author:	DocSherrin III [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Andrew McKay - General Manager Football Operations
Blue Vain wrote: That would be great if they were all playing the same game style under the same coach Doc. Very true - but Malthouse has to recognise that unless you do more of that, you're not going to finish in the top 4.

Author:	ThePsychologist [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Andrew McKay - General Manager Football Operations
If nothing else happens this week and we don't get Docherty questions really need to be asked of McKay. My impression is that we have made the same mistake as we did with Ratten. We put on a club great into a position they have no experience in and have them learning on the job. Recipe for disaster. This causes problems and mistakes that can be damaging for years to come. Such an important role that we needed to go get a Pelchen, Walsh, Hine or a Balme.

Author:	Rexy [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:
Why can't you just wait until trade week is over before attacking ?

Author:	Rexy [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:
just everybody step back and take a deep breath until Friday lol

Author:	azza? [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Andrew McKay - General Manager Football Operations
This is his second year in the role isn't it?

Author:	trublu [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Andrew McKay - General Manager Football Operations
ThePsychologist wrote: If nothing else happens this week and we don't get Docherty questions really need to be asked of McKay. I hear that we had 'planned' to have many more picks inside 40 Mick wanted to make changes to out list. It's his suggestion that 80% of the changes come via the draft and not necessarily trade. The question is do you blame those doing the wheeling and dealing or the recruiting peoples who have selected players that no other clubs want?

Author:	DocSherrin III [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re:
Rexy wrote: Why can't you just wait until trade week is over before attacking ? Because in certain circles McKay is not being talked about as someone who is particularly competent.

Author:	ThePsychologist [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Andrew McKay - General Manager Football Operations
trublu wrote: ThePsychologist wrote: If nothing else happens this week and we don't get Docherty questions really need to be asked of McKay. I hear that we had 'planned' to have many more picks inside 40 Mick wanted to make changes to out list. It's his suggestion that 80% of the changes come via the draft and not necessarily trade. The question is do you blame those doing the wheeling and dealing or the recruiting peoples who have selected players that no other clubs want? Both. How Hughes is still at the club is beyond me and I have serious doubts about the McKay selection. Once again no due diligence or process in getting someone with NO experience in the role. We have recruited some very average players and put them on some nice contracts. As such our hands are tied.

Author:	doofdoof [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Andrew McKay - General Manager Football Operations
ThePsychologist wrote: trublu wrote: ThePsychologist wrote: If nothing else happens this week and we don't get Docherty questions really need to be asked of McKay. I hear that we had 'planned' to have many more picks inside 40 Mick wanted to make changes to out list. It's his suggestion that 80% of the changes come via the draft and not necessarily trade. The question is do you blame those doing the wheeling and dealing or the recruiting peoples who have selected players that no other clubs want? Both. How Hughes is still at the club is beyond me and I have serious doubts about the McKay selection. Once again no due diligence or process in getting someone with NO experience in the role. We have recruited some very average players and put them on some nice contracts. As such our hands are tied. McKay started in the role in late 2011. It's not even 2 years in so its bit shit to generalise and blame him for where we are.

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Author:	SurreyBlue [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Andrew McKay - General Manager Football Operations
doofdoof wrote: McKay started in the role in late 2011. It's not even 2 years in so its bit shit to generalise and blame him for where we are.

Author:	doofdoof [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Andrew McKay - General Manager Football Operations
ThePsychologist wrote: Don't agree. If you can't make an assessment on someone after 2 years then something is seriously wrong. hard to make an assessment when i have no idea what his KPIs are. you blamed him for our contract situation and even mentioned recruiting. i am saying you cant lump all of that on him when he isn't responsible for many of the decisions that were made in the past. (ie 2 years + ago)

Author:	Punter22 [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Andrew McKay - General Manager Football Operations
I think you meant one of those dont's to be a do, Doc. Don't you?