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2012 TPP Discussion (aka Brock's 401k)
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30917		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  fjanyc [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  2012 TPP Discussion (aka Brock's 401k)
viewtopic.php?p=1208474#p1208474

AGRO wrote:
Although not really part of trade week this is the only piece of good news as to what has really been a disasterous trade week for Carlton and like our on field tactics in 2009 and 2010 - no apparent back up plan B.


Agro, not sure how you can describe it as disasterous -- the club feels good about its list and does not think doing trades for the sake of it is the way to go. If you follow American football, the Philadelphia Eagles assembled a "dream team" in free agency and they sit at 1 and 4. You build a team principally through the draft.
Author:  AGRO [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alan Richardson in Saints sights?
Its not so much as about trading in players for the sake of it.

But we entered Trade Week without a Football Manager - with no apparent space in the salary cap to get into the market in case something of value presented itself and left our selves in no position of strength to negotiate or bargain with other clubs.
Author:  Number19Tram [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alan Richardson in Saints sights?
fjanyc wrote:
Agro, not sure how you can describe it as disasterous -- the club feels good about its list and does not think doing trades for the sake of it is the way to go. If you follow American football, the Philadelphia Eagles assembled a "dream team" in free agency and they sit at 1 and 4. You build a team principally through the draft.

Agreed. a la Geelong....
Author:  jimmae [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alan Richardson in Saints sights?
AGRO wrote:
Its not so much as about trading in players for the sake of it.

But we entered Trade Week without a Football Manager - with no apparent space in the salary cap to get into the market in case something of value presented itself and left our selves in no position of strength to negotiate or bargain with other clubs.

Have we missed anything?
Author:  AGRO [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alan Richardson in Saints sights?
jimmae wrote:
AGRO wrote:
Its not so much as about trading in players for the sake of it.

But we entered Trade Week without a Football Manager - with no apparent space in the salary cap to get into the market in case something of value presented itself and left our selves in no position of strength to negotiate or bargain with other clubs.


Have I missed anything?



The point apparently.
Author:  jimmae [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alan Richardson in Saints sights?
AGRO wrote:
jimmae wrote:
AGRO wrote:
Its not so much as about trading in players for the sake of it.

But we entered Trade Week without a Football Manager - with no apparent space in the salary cap to get into the market in case something of value presented itself and left our selves in no position of strength to negotiate or bargain with other clubs.


Have I missed anything?



The point apparently.

:P

We were never going to put up much over market value for anything, so I don't see what we would have got our hands on. If we dump Bower & Setanta, we need one good KPP and without Brock we'd probably only have 450k to work with, and no decent draft picks.

You're proposing we'd sell the farm to lure something worthwhile, when consolidation is nothing to be ashamed of with our list.
Author:  AGRO [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alan Richardson (no longer) in Saints sights?
No I never advocated selling off the farm.

I am advocating that we were in no position to do anything (however big or small) because we were not organized prior to Trade Week and that our Salary Cap was ludicrously and unnecessarily tight.
Author:  jimmae [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alan Richardson (no longer) in Saints sights?
AGRO wrote:
No I never advocated selling off the farm.

I am advocating that we were in no position to do anything (however big or small) because we were not organized prior to Trade Week and that our Salary Cap was ludicrously and unnecessarily tight.

OK, I see your point, but I'm of the view that the list is in very good shape. We should be capitalising on its value to enhance our draft position, and keep the dream alive for much longer.

It's consistently taking the medium term view once you're successful that keeps you successful in the draft-era. Yet to see a club do it, though.
Author:  AGRO [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alan Richardson (no longer) in Saints sights?
The list is in good shape (always could be better) but it is seriously "over rewarded" if we are tight on our salary cap.

But the point I am also making we are not even in a position where we could squeeze in a "Jeremy Laidler" type in this year and that I believe is poor list management (or the words "amateur hour" were used elsewhere :wink: ).
Author:  Drewgirl [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alan Richardson (no longer) in Saints sights?
Exactly Agro.

We should be working our hardest to try and improve our list.

They are relying on our young talls to come through, and that may not happen for a number of years or not at all.

If we trade out Bower and Setanta, and Jammo, Waite go down we are going to be screwed.

We are sitting on our hands doing nothing.

We have probably prematurely signed up Ellard, Joseph and Armfield. We have too many similar players. Also having Russell, Touhy fighting for the same spots.

We need to be creative.
Author:  Dukes [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alan Richardson (no longer) in Saints sights?
Drewgirl wrote:
We have too many similar players. Also having Russell, Touhy fighting for the same spots.

We need to be creative.


You can add O'Keefe and Davies to the list of mid-sized half back flankers.
Author:  jimmae [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alan Richardson (no longer) in Saints sights?
AGRO wrote:
The list is in good shape (always could be better) but it is seriously "over rewarded" if we are tight on our salary cap.

But the point I am also making we are not even in a position where we could squeeze in a "Jeremy Laidler" type in this year and that I believe is poor list management (or the words "amateur hour" were used elsewhere :wink: ).

2012 cap figure is 8.78 million.

1 million to Judd straight off; probably 600k to Murphy; 300-350k for Walker & Simpson; 350k for Scotland. That's another 1.6 million there.

Krezuer would be on about 300k as we surely would have front-loaded him to a degree given our prior cap situation. Brock supposedly 400k. Eddie about 300-350k; there's another million.

I've knocked up 4.2 million - almost half the cap - on just 8 players out of a list of 44 plus 7 rookies (who only have half their salary counted of course). I don't think the salaries I've nominated are unfair except for Brock's, which I don't believe to be accurate as even if the papers do have accurate figures, they always activate all bonus payments when they drop their figure on the public (they are trying to sell papers).

I think people forget that the minimum salary after a few years is something like 80k, and room in the cap needs to be left for any incentivised payments (hence the oft-heard term 'TPP estimates').
Author:  AGRO [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alan Richardson (no longer) in Saints sights?
Carrazzo on a ludicrous $400K + :eek:

Waite on $500K + :eek:
Author:  Synbad [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alan Richardson in Saints sights?
Number19Tram wrote:
fjanyc wrote:
Agro, not sure how you can describe it as disasterous -- the club feels good about its list and does not think doing trades for the sake of it is the way to go. If you follow American football, the Philadelphia Eagles assembled a "dream team" in free agency and they sit at 1 and 4. You build a team principally through the draft.

Agreed. a la Geelong....

so you are advocating superimposing the cats blueprint to success on our club?
is that possible?

the correct path is WHATEVER wins a flag.

but every club is presumably doing whatever that takes.
personally I think simon white should be jettisoned off for a possible trade.
might end up the next carey but probably won't.
too many half back flankers
Author:  jimmae [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alan Richardson (no longer) in Saints sights?
AGRO wrote:
Carrazzo on a ludicrous $400K + :eek:

Waite on $500K + :eek:

Carrazzo would only be earning that after match payments, surely.

Waite was deserving of about that figure when he last signed; out of contract at the moment.
Author:  Gilly34 [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alan Richardson (no longer) in Saints sights?
jimmae wrote:
AGRO wrote:
No I never advocated selling off the farm.

I am advocating that we were in no position to do anything (however big or small) because we were not organized prior to Trade Week and that our Salary Cap was ludicrously and unnecessarily tight.

OK, I see your point, but I'm of the view that the list is in very good shape. We should be capitalising on its value to enhance our draft position, and keep the dream alive for much longer.

It's consistently taking the medium term view once you're successful that keeps you successful in the draft-era. Yet to see a club do it, though.


Sleepy Hollow says hello.
Author:  jimmae [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alan Richardson (no longer) in Saints sights?
Is that a Tim Burton reference, or just a regular old-school Hollow reference, or is it something that is supposed to make sense? :P

List turn over is the most important facet of how a club should operate these days. It's important to be critical in order to achieve sustained success. Well you can bottom out for 5 years and have another tilt if you like, but you can just share the wealth you have now, to accrue more for the future.

See the Patriots & the Packers in the NFL.
Author:  woof [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alan Richardson (no longer) in Saints sights?
AGRO wrote:
No I never advocated selling off the farm.

I am advocating that we were in no position to do anything (however big or small) because we were not organized prior to Trade Week and that our Salary Cap was ludicrously and unnecessarily tight.


Tell us what you would have done prior to trade week to get us ready?
Author:  AGRO [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alan Richardson (no longer) in Saints sights?
woof wrote:
AGRO wrote:
No I never advocated selling off the farm.

I am advocating that we were in no position to do anything (however big or small) because we were not organized prior to Trade Week and that our Salary Cap was ludicrously and unnecessarily tight.


Tell us what you would have done prior to trade week to get us ready?



Not being up to pussy's bow in salary cap for a start - having a football manager or a back up plan in case you dont have for seconds.
Author:  QLD_Blue [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alan Richardson (no longer) in Saints sights?
Where did the talk of the salary cap being tight come from? It was only weeks ago the headlines were "Cashed up Carlton Chasing Gunston" etc.

I can see with the figures Jim is talking about and how we could be tight, but when did the view change, did I miss something?
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