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 Post subject: Rookie List review
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:23 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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I know there's been some discussion about this in the Bullants forum already, but with the season now officially over for the Bullants & the Blues, it’s perhaps timely to review our Rookie List…

ie. Who will be promoted from the Rookie List to the Primary List? Who will be retained on the Rookie List? Who will be delisted? And, as much as we can this far from the Draft, who could we say are possible additions to the Rookie List for next year?

Personally, I don’t think any of our Rookie Listed players will be promoted to the Primary List this year. However, I think Casboult, Curnow, ROK & Tuohy are near certainties to be retained on the Rookie List. I think Bray & Twomey are a chance to be retained, but may well be delisted. And I think Cachia, Carter & Dare will be delisted…

RETAINED ON ROOKIE LIST

Casboult – I understand that a new rule has been introduced that will allow the club to retain 1 player on the Rookie List that has already served 2 years. I’m fairly sure Levi will be that player for us. Carlton is certainly in the market for a power forward who can also help in the ruck and Levi has shown promise. Personally, I don’t think he’s ready for our Primary List but I think the club would like to hang onto him for another 12 months and see how he develops. The potential complication with this plan is that (I think) the player has to consent to staying on as a Rookie – so if another club gets in Levi’s ear and convinces him to nominate for the National Draft, Carlton would then have to choose between letting him go into the Draft or promoting him to the Primary List before the Draft. In those circumstances, I’d be minded to let Levi go into the Draft. I think there’s too many question marks next to the big fella for us to justify promoting him now. Mobility and endurance are the main concerns (although he had made progress in these areas before his knee injury), and also his kicking is a worry. But he’s a very strong contested mark and I think another year of development on our Rookie List would be a good result. Let’s hope the ankle injury he suffered yesterday isn’t too serious and he can have a full pre-season.

Curnow – Early in the season he looked like he might be the new Michael Barlow. Late in the season, he looked like the new Jon McCormick. As he showed yesterday, he's a very good player at the next level down (although he was even labouring at VFL level in the 2nd half of the year – presumably injuries were a factor), but is he good enough to be a regular in the AFL? Or will he be one of those players that shows promise in his first few games but then drifts off the scene? Not sure. If he can get his body right and keep working at his disposal, I’d say he’s a chance to become a regular in the midfield. No doubt the Blues need more midfield depth. Curnow deserves another year on our Rookie List, but shouldn’t be promoted to the Primary List yet, IMO.

O’Keefe – Got a taste of AFL footy but had another fairly stop-start year with injuries. 2011 was his first year on our Rookie List, so we can retain without promoting him. He’s been in our system for 3 years but I would persist with him for another year. Still only 21 y.o. He’s a fraction slow, but there’s plenty to like about his attack on the ball and his disposal. It’s not hard to imagine him slotting into Carlton’s backline and bringing the ball out of defence with elite left foot kicking. Must get his body right in 2012.

Tuohy – I understand that internationals can have 3 years on the Rookie List, so I would retain Zach on the Rookie List for another 12 months with a view to promoting him to the Primary List in 2013. He adapted well to the pace of AFL and his run and carry and good ball use should see him become a regular over the next couple of years.

Twomey – This a tough call. I don’t think he’ll be promoted to the Primary List, so it’s a choice between delisting him or retaining him on the Rookie List (he's only had 1 year on the Rookie List). Quite frankly, it could go either way, IMO. I’ve been impressed with Twomey in the VFL and he hasn’t looked too out of place in the AFL games he’s played, but he will be 26 next year. He’s quite hard at the ball, tackles well and his disposal is sound. Given our premiership window is opening now, the MC might like to have a mature player like Twomey ready on standby. You do wonder how much improvement is left in a 26 year old, but he might be better next year with 12 months of AFL training under his belt. I’m leaning towards retaining him on the Rookie List, but equally I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s delisted. A lot of it may come down to what other changes we make to our list (eg. if we pick up a ready-made medium forward in trade week, I think Twomey’s probably gone).

Bray – Like Twomey, this is a very tough call and a choice between delist or retain on Rookie List (ie. no way will he be promoted to the Primary List this year). Of the little of seen of Bray in his 1st year, I’ve been quietly impressed. His workrate seemed OK to me and it looks to have clean hands. He spent quite a bit of 2011 on the sidelines or in the VFL Reserves, so it’s hard to get a handle on him. Has a long way to go to reach AFL fitness and body strength. I have no idea what his attitude is like, but all things being equal I wouldn’t mind keeping him on the Rookie List for another year and monitor his development as a forward over the next 12 months.

DELISTED

Cachia – Has matured as a footballer this year and no question he’s improved since he arrived at the club, but I just don’t think he’s quite good enough for AFL. He sort of reminds me of a less talented Robbo. Hard at the ball but doesn’t seem to have the awareness and skill level required. Can be a bit slow with his defensive transitions too. He’s had his 2 years on our Rookie List, and with Casboult our nominated player to keep for a 3rd year, I think Cachia is gone. He might be an outside chance to be picked up by another AFL club late in the Rookie Draft.

Carter – I just don’t see it with Carter. He has pace, but I don’t see anything in him that sets him apart from many other players of his type at VFL/SANFL/WAFL level. I’m no expert, but one thing I look at with a new player is how he handles the ball. There’s no room in the AFL for players that fumble. Carter doesn’t seem to handle the ball cleanly under pressure and his disposal is OK but nothing special. Unless there’s a rule that interstate Rookies have to be give 2 years (?), I would move him on. Getting a shoulder injury when he did certainly didn’t help him.

Dare – I like the way Dare plays. He’s got a little bit of a young Peter Dean about him. He’s a courageous and smart footballer with some natural leadership skills. He appears to be popular with the coaching staff too. Had a good finals series with the Bullants. If he was a yard quicker, 5cm taller and 10kgs heavier, he’d be a very exciting AFL prospect. Unfortunately, I doubt he’s going to make the grade, and with Laidler and Duigan established in the Carlton side, it’s unlikely we’ll persist with Dare. Like Cachia, it wouldn’t be the biggest shock of all time if another club threw him a lifeline late in the Rookie Draft.

That would leave us with 3 picks in the Rookie Draft. We could have as many as 4 or 5 selections if the club also decides to delist Bray and/or Twomey.

POSSIBLE ADDITIONS TO ROOKIE LIST

If Mark Austin and Rohan Kerr are delisted from the Primary List, it wouldn’t surprise me if either or both of them are selected by us in the Rookie Draft. Austin seems out of favour but has had a solid year in the VFL (probably his most consistent ever with the Bullants) and Carlton is light on for short-term KP options (ie. Watson, McCarthy, Mitchell & Levi are all still 2-3 seasons away from being regulars). He’s probably had his papers stamped, but I wouldn’t mind if he was given another chance via the Rookie Draft. In fact, I would almost rather keep Austin on our Primary List than White, if it’s a choice between the two. And Kerr is a player who obviously has some ability but is taking time to develop. He probably needs to get his fitness to the point where he can be rotated through the midfield at AFL level. I don’t think he’ll survive in the AFL as a permanent forward.

And what happened to Peter Labi? At the start of the year, I thought we’d be likely to add him to the Rookie List for 2012...

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 Post subject: Re: Rookie List review
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:11 pm 
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Robert Walls

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id be promoting Tuohy - need his freshness and will need him to develop into an A grade midfielder


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 Post subject: Re: Rookie List review
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:19 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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london blue wrote:
id be promoting Tuohy - need his freshness and will need him to develop into an A grade midfielder


My thinking is that we can keep him on the Rookie List for another year and nominate him so that he can play AFL next year without needing a LTI. It just frees up a spot on our Primary List.

Unless Tuohy goes backwards at an alarming rate in 2012, he'd be a certain promotion to the Primary List in 2013. I thought he was very good in the 2nd half last night. Could he take Scotland's place as that HB/Wingman over the next couple of years?

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 Post subject: Re: Rookie List review
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:41 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Touhuy is developing at a rate of knots and on the senior list he would continue to develop faster than on the rookie list. He's a real long way from home and you wouldn't like to see him getting brassed off because the opportunities at Carlton are not keeping pace with his development.

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 Post subject: Re: Rookie List review
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:52 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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isdonis.george wrote:
Touhuy is developing at a rate of knots and on the senior list he would continue to develop faster than on the rookie list. He's a real long way from home and you wouldn't like to see him getting brassed off because the opportunities at Carlton are not keeping pace with his development.


He's a ripper is Zac. Hasn't played a bad game, and has done some "special" things like that mark/goal last night. He knows where the goals are, remembering that long bomb against the Swanettes too.


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 Post subject: Re: Rookie List review
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:55 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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london blue wrote:
id be promoting Tuohy - need his freshness and will need him to develop into an A grade midfielder


I hope you are right, my concern is he's a good at the nuts and bolts stuff, mark, kick, run at the moment. But midfielders need those instictive smarts that lets them do things in heavy traffic, clean hands, knowing when to kick and when to run.

But like I said, I hope he does, he's just the right size and temperament for the argy bargy stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Rookie List review
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:58 pm 
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Robert Walls

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isdonis.george wrote:
Touhuy is developing at a rate of knots and on the senior list he would continue to develop faster than on the rookie list. He's a real long way from home and you wouldn't like to see him getting brassed off because the opportunities at Carlton are not keeping pace with his development.


outside of $$$, I'd have thought there was no difference in terms of player development (between rookie and senior lists)


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 Post subject: Re: Rookie List review
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:48 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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No-one on our list next year with veterans' list eligibility. Therefore we have two nominated rookies. Curnow and Tuohy make sense.

After that:

2013: Jarrad Waite, Bret Thornton
2014: Heath Scotland, Setanta o'hAilpin, Kade Simpson
2015: Andrew Carrazzo

Makes sense to make the most of the nominated rookies factor as long as we can.

*edited - thanks AK43 for clarifying*

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Last edited by The Rhino on Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Rookie List review
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:59 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:01 pm
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The Rhino wrote:
No-one on our list next year with veterans' list eligibility. Therefore we have two nominated rookies. Curnow and Tuohy make sense.

After that:

2014: Heath Scotland, Jarrad Waite, Setanta o'hAilpin, Bret Thornton
2015: Andrew Carrazzo, Kade Simpson

Makes sense to make the most of the nominated rookies factor as long as we can.


I think you're a year late with them except for Scotland. Pretty sure they can go on veteran's list in the year they turn 30, not the year after. If I'm right, and I'm happy to be corrected, next year is the last year we won't have any veterans (assuming the above names are still at CFC)


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 Post subject: Re: Rookie List review
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:06 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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You're right. Looked at the 2003 version, not the 2009 agreement.

Puts Setanta and Thornton in the firing line a little bit

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 Post subject: Re: Rookie List review
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:11 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Anyone know how eligiblity works in terms of being promoted onto the senior list from the senior list?

i.e - Carrots debuted in 04, promoted onto senior list full time in 05?

Also - was Setanta on the senior list in 2004? :S

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 Post subject: Re: Rookie List review
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:31 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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On the subject of potential Rookie List players for next year, Ahmed Saad is obviously one that we'd look at, but I understand that he's GWS bound. Of the other Bullants players that might possibly be worth considering for a Rookie spot:

Adam Marcon - http://www.afl.com.au/News/NEWSARTICLE/ ... sId=104475
Josh Marchbank- http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx
Kane Lambert - http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default ... wsid=87031
Tim Lincoln - http://bigpondvideo.com/AFL/220767
are 4 local boys (the links are profiles from a couple of years ago when they were in the U18s). Lambert has done some impressive negating midfield jobs for the Bullants this year.

Joel McLellan and Tyson Biffin are other local ex-Northern Knights lads who did OK from very limited opportunities with the Bullants seniors this year. FWIW - Cazzesman mentioned McLellan on TC last year in this thread - viewtopic.php?f=4&t=27979

Ryan Gale - http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthrea ... 8&t=767778
(this is just a BF thread from last year) I haven't been a huge fan of Gale, but he had a good finals series for the Bullants this year - do any recruiting experts out there think he could be a late developer..? He has a pretty big kick on him. Similar size to Jamo/White/Austin. Might be a bit slow?

I wouldn't worry about Tyson Thomas. IMO - his skills aren't good enough for a player his size. And I doubt those Bullants players who have already been in the AFL system (Iacobucci, Arrowsmith, Gianfagna) will get another go. Can't see other Bullants regulars like McCorkell, Bransgrove or Meese getting a look in either.

So aside from Saad (who I think is a little bit overrated and might be out of our reach anyway), not a great deal of exciting Rookie List prospects for the Blues coming out of Cramer Street. Maybe Gale if Carlton thought he could play a specific role? Personally, I doubt he would be an improvement on Austin or White to be honest...

Do any other Bullants watchers out there have views on any of the above players?

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 Post subject: Re: Rookie List review
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:36 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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Liked the look of Kane Lambert. i reckon he's got the smarts to give it a crack

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 Post subject: Re: Rookie List review
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:52 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I'm with you ABNS, but I just think Carter is more likely to get a spot than Twomey. He has shown clean hands & skills to go with his pace and defensive effort. Like a Joseph or Davies, yet even more promising.

Away from that, I think Saad is the only Bullants player worth pursuing at this point.

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 Post subject: Re: Rookie List review
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:29 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Has cachia got any potential to be that big bodied mid to provide chop out for Judd and Murphy?

We need an intimidator in the Lewis mould- is there a role for him there?


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 Post subject: Re: Rookie List review
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:02 am 
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Harry Vallence

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I think Zach deserves better than another year on the rookie list. He is clearly good enough for the senior list and should be on it in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Rookie List review
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:12 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Great summation ABNS. I like Lambert as a potential RD candidate and maybe Gale who did look good in the finals. Haven't seen enough of Gale to make a strong call either way.

I also agree on Austin. I am a fan and would like to keep him, but I suspect the line went through his name. Did some good things across half forward but his kicking at goal is terrible. Prefer him as a key back and would be happy if we gave him a lifeline as a rookie.

All clubs get rid of their kids too early. You pick them for a reason, unless there are problems with injury/attitude take the time to make it work.


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 Post subject: Re: Rookie List review
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:31 am 
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Harry Vallence
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A quality review of the players from someone who probably knows them better than the current coaching staff


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 Post subject: Re: Rookie List review
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:33 am 
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Adrian Gallagher
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fmurphy30 wrote:
Great summation ABNS. I like Lambert as a potential RD candidate and maybe Gale who did look good in the finals. Haven't seen enough of Gale to make a strong call either way.

I also agree on Austin. I am a fan and would like to keep him, but I suspect the line went through his name. Did some good things across half forward but his kicking at goal is terrible. Prefer him as a key back and would be happy if we gave him a lifeline as a rookie.

All clubs get rid of their kids too early. You pick them for a reason, unless there are problems with injury/attitude take the time to make it work.


Gale had a great 2010 as well, but getting rid of the AFL listed rule has hurt him this year. He's a very good spoiler and never shirks a contest. Not sure he's much of an improvement on White or Austin though, but he hasn't had anywhere near as many injuries as them either.


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 Post subject: Re: Rookie List review
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:42 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Wouldn't lose too much sleep if Saad isn't on our list.

Would like another crumbing forward option on the list to keep Garlett and Betts honest, but his match fitness is so far behind what would be required at AFL level, and given he plays more of a Walker role than what those two offer, it's probably surplus to needs.

Let him go to GWS.

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