TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Semi Final Pros and Cons

Don't think Walker's was a free.

Wow, we're non thinkers for not blaming 2 shots on goal in the 2nd qtr for the loss...

Blue Sombrero you posted 'Murphy has to take responsibility for that loss.'
I think people objected to you singling out one of, if not the, best player for us on the night for a greater degree of responsibility than any of the others.
I'd nominate the following as just as important as Murphy's misses in terms of momentum:
1. Davies' conceded goals - panicky free kick for the Eagles' second and the obvious one.
2. Setanta and Simmo missing at the start of the last.
3. Losing Thornton, Scotland's impact reduced - Kennedy recovering (nb - no one has even raised the question of him returning to the ground when he must have been mildly concussed - funny omission from the chat when it was on everyone's minds at the start of the year)
4. Even Juddy's awful turnover kick to give them the first in the 3rd + the failure of Walker to track Hurn closely.

And as many have pointed out, a game involves so many more decisions/executions of skill. I haven't had the heart to go back and watch it all again but you'll see things like Joseph losing out to Kerr in a tight tussle for a clearance on the wing, Setanta conceding free kicks/50s, failing to kill the ball and letting McGinnity score one over the back.

You argue that people made a personal attack on you - and you were just letting off some steam - well so were those who had a dig back at you. I wouldn't really get all that fussed about it.

Anyway, end of 2011 for me on TC - let's hope the 2012 goes a few weeks longer and ends with a close victory rather than a close loss! Or really just victory of any kind.

Craig_Bradley wrote:

Joseph attacked it hard, the better man won the contest.

The shoe doesnt fit.

There are 120mins of football, someone will be able to you how many contests there are. If you want to describe what we talk about here in those terms then dumb is picking the missed goals for special mention and ignoring every other contest that effects the momentum of a game.

Author:	simonverbeek [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:03 am ]
Post subject:	Semi Final Pros and Cons
Another interstate final lost by less than a goal, and whilst a part of you wants to be proud of the boys, the reality is that you have to look at tonight as a massive missed opportunity for the football club. PROS 1. Kade Simpson – in the second quarter he was the only thing standing between the CFC and oblivion. So consistent. (But also, had to nail that goal in the last quarter) 2. Some players stood up and did things I didn’t know they could do – Joseph’s goal on half time and Tuohy’s goal in particular. Shows that we still have improvement. 3. Carrazzo and Murphy has had a good finals series in the engine room. 4. We have a gun backline – Jamison, Henda, Laidler, Yarran. Settled 5. Eddie, Jeff and Walker did stand up in the finals, big positive. CONS 1. Missed opportunities – Murph x2, Setanta, Simmo. So costly. Especially when WCE were banging them home from everywhere 2. Lack of discipline in the second quarter – 2 50m penalties, the downfield free from Joey (in Q1 I know), and Marcus friccen Davies giving that moronic goal away. We lost the plot in the second quarter, and as club we cannot accept that. We won 3 quarters tonight (as we did in Brisbane in 09) and still lost, on the back of a complete mental fadeout in the second quarter. Completely unacceptable and the players need this burnt into their brains. 3. In hindsight Setanta as second ruck directly cost us a couple of goals from centre clearances. If Hammer had rolled his ankle, OK, but if not it was a selection blunder. How Jordan Russel isn’t a better option than Davies either doesn’t make sense to me. 4. For the last month we just decided to stop blocking for Judd. I don’t get it. Fricken Selwood probably doesn’t have a bruise tonight. What happened to all the good shepherds that were being laid for the captain during the year. His lack of output hurt us. 5. When we lose momentum in a game, we seem to really lose it altogether. Just need to develop a more resilient team ethos. Opportunities to make preliminary finals do not come around so easily. We would have been a show against Geelong, have a good record against them. We can talk about injuries, umpires, brave performances and all of these factors may have some truth. But tonight was a waste of a great opportunity and that needs to be hammered into the players. More resilience and discipline for twenty minutes in that first half, and the boys could’ve written history. Our window opens in March 2012 – the stakes are high. Do we want to be the first to 17? Get the players fit, get hungry, get angry, and don’t let that shit ever happen again!

Author:	Juddy&theKruezers [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Semi Final Pros and Cons
Good post Simon....massive opportunity wasted....no excuses....especially not umpiring decisions....interstate teams get raped every second week when they travel....we needed to be smarter and not let go of the advantage we gained early....the key to winning interstate is to take the crowds influence out early which we did then we went missing in the second when the opportunity was there to hammer home our advantage....waste....very disappointing....

Author:	Taff [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Semi Final Pros and Cons
Pros Simmo was inspirational, never gave up, heart and soul of the side. Robbo - gave his all and will get better and better Hendo - great effort and will also get better Laidler - was a find! Duigan - see Laidler. Murph - just kept going and such a shame he missed those two goals Warnock - has made a huge leap and with another strong off season will be even better (with some support) Zac - this guy is going to be so good! That mark and goal are a sign of what is to come All done without Gibbs, Kreuzer, Waite and the class of the 2010 version of JR. Pleased to see the way Eddie, Jeffy and 1AW stood up for us in the finals. Cons Juddy must be exhausted, also looked to be really labouring in the last. Needs the chop out and more protection. Just don't have enough class yet to finish the job. Injuries killed us. Those who keep bleating about the umpiring - just dumb! There will always be dodgy decisions but that is footy. If you are good enough it doesn't matter. Have to wait 6 months for the next season.

Author:	Donstuie [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Semi Final Pros and Cons
Pro: We softened West Coast up for an absolute shit-kicking by the cats this saturday Got nothing else right now, but I'm sure more will follow at some stage

Author:	Scotty12000 [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Semi Final Pros and Cons
Pros: There's always next year Cons: Why couldn't it be this year?

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	Captain Dan [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Semi Final Pros and Cons
Pros: The drubbing we gave the nancy boys last week softens the blow for this loss. Cons: One of the most over-umpired games I have ever seen - for both sides.

Author:	George Harris [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Semi Final Pros and Cons
Agree 100% with Simon Verbeek. PROS: Never say die attitude CONS: @#$%&! umpires

Author:	MIL [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Semi Final Pros and Cons
Pros Laidler, Duigan, Robbo, Hendo, Touhy will be a player, 1AW's great kicking, Simmo, 206 getting better all the time. Cons Judd fade out. It maybe we stopped blocking for him, but I really dunno, as he's coped with worse than that in the past. Every time he got one of his very few touches we scored a goal too Yarran being out of the game for most of the night. FFS get him into the middle if he's getting dragged out of it. Great coaching Woosha, but very predictable. Just the worse year I can recall injury-wise for our talls. WTF Umpiring was disgraceful, and anyone who says it wasn't relevant is kidding themselves. Was watching the game with 3 mates (Filth, Bullies, 9thmond fans) and they were all shocked at how bad it was. Very hard to win in front of a hostile crowd when the umps screw you. And, NO, the WC do not cop that crap every week when they travel. Most of us knew we were up against it as soon as we saw we'd been given the Razor too.

Author:	Stefchook [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Semi Final Pros and Cons
Pros: Murphy must surely have the best and fairest. Outstanding game. Robbo. Absolute desperado. Carrazzo. Although we really needed him to shut down Kerr. Betts. Had a brilliant 2nd half of the season. Tuohy. Surely he won't play VFL again, fitness permitting. Joseph (see Robbo). Persistence and willingness to fight and compete, even though we didn't have many play standout games. Cons: Losing another interstate final. And another heartbreaking close one. Murphy's 2 easy misses just before and after quarter time. Could almost have killed the game then and there. Hampson failing his fitness test. Not sure whether he would have played anyway, but our 2nd quarter centre square clearances cost us the game. Thought Warnock competed well, but was always going to be up against it. MC have been great for much of the year, but were too slow to close down the game once West Coast got a run on. Go the uber flood or something. You're not going to win many finals when the opposition tops 100 and kicks 5 goals in a row and gets 8 goals in a quarter. Was always on the cards, but home crowd influence on the umps. 4 free kick goals says it all really. Not to mention the frees that should have been paid that cost goals. Don't think Walker's was a free. But why didn't Lynch get penalised for holding the ball 5 seconds earlier? And why didn't Duigan get a free for receiving an arm chop/front on contact in the marking contest earlier in the quarter? And why is it that only Selwoods were eligible for too high? And why didn't Joseph get another kick for goal after being flattened by Waters after he kicked the goal (certainly more deserving than Davies' moment of madness)? They kicked 5 goals from outside 50 (one bouncing at right angles). And 2 from just inside 50. That's not going to happen very often, and it just kills you. Needed more from Judd and Yarran. Missing players. Obviously would have been fantastic to have had Waite and Kreuzer available. And Russell at decent fitness. But Gibbs really cost us. One more (goalkicking) class midfielder would surely have gotten us over the line.

Author:	The Spornstar [ Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Semi Final Pros and Cons
Stefchook wrote: Don't think Walker's was a free. I tend to agree, though it was as much a free as the one that was given to Kennedy against Jamo. However, on balance Walks' was probably not a free, and I wish if Ratts was going to complain about the umps he didn't focus on that particular decision, when in reality that was the least worst of the bad decisions that continued to go against us all night long. Today I was listening to some of the reviews of last night's game on the radio and it reminded me of one of my pet footballing hates. When one team so obviously gets reamed by the umps (ie Carlton), yet some supposedly fair minded supporters call up and say the umpires were bad but they were bad for both sides. Er, no they weren't you idiots, they were bloody great for the Eagles last night.

Author:	Blue Sombrero [ Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Semi Final Pros and Cons
Pros: Fought it out to the bitter end when all seemed lost. Laidler's season ending as he has played all year. Great pickup. Discovering Justin (thanks Jimmae) Cons: Losing. Being attacked by an emotional bunch of non-thinkers after the game for saying Murphy's misses that lost our momentum were the cause of the loss and then spending two days reading how many other posters have singled them out as one of the main reasons. Only one or two posters after the game bothered to counter the argument and thanks to them. To the rest of you who just went the man instead of the ball, it just made me more aware that there is a chasm between the thinkers and dumb posters here on TC. Funnily enough, it's usually the same people who attack the team and players after a loss and then go over the moon after a win. If you want to be a pendulum, that's your decision. Enjoy it.

Author:	TruBlueBrad [ Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Semi Final Pros and Cons
Wow, we're non thinkers for not blaming 2 shots on goal in the 2nd qtr for the loss...

Author:	hollywood43 [ Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Semi Final Pros and Cons
PROS: - Had a massive crack with 4 of our best 22 out, very important blokes ( Waite, Kruzer, Hampson and Gibbs ) - Kept coming at them, even after being one man down during the game - Warnock, i thought he done a great job against 2 gun ruckmen - We bashed them and Geelong should have an easy time with them so the Cats can slap the pies or hawks in the granny ( i hate either team ) - Judd was well held yet we still should have pinched the win - 2012 is a premiership chance for us CONS: - Umpires too scared to pay critical frees that cost us goals. ( Duigan getting smashed over the shoulder in a marking contest, Lecras scores, Quentin Lynch dropping the ball in our forward 50, play on ) - Goal kicking... Murph, Simpson, Ohailpin ( critical misses for very gettable goals ) - Another year gone and we have to wait for ages!!!

Author:	Blue Sombrero [ Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Semi Final Pros and Cons
TruBlueBrad wrote: Wow, we're non thinkers for not blaming 2 shots on goal in the 2nd qtr for the loss... I didn't write that at all. You chose to read it that way. And that is exactly the sort of non-response I was talking about. No points for or against your point of view. Just a dumb, smart-arsed reply. I suspect you are incapable of making an argument that refutes the fact that we lost the momentum immediately after the event and never really regained it. The reality of professional sport is (and I have no idea if you or anybody else on TC has either played it or coached it at an elite level) is that after the game, Ratts would probably have spoken to Murphy about it in private and told him that those misses were responsible for the loss of momentum and he will have to use it as a motivation for his pre-season and his performance next year. It was palpable within a minute that the team dropped it's collective head and the WCE sniffed the opportunity they should never have had and went on with it. Murphy would also know. If people disagree with me that's fine. That's what makes TC a good place to come but failing to back up a with any sort of cohesive rebuttal is just dumb. If the shoe fits.....

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Author:	TruBlueBrad [ Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Semi Final Pros and Cons
The shoe doesnt fit. There are 120mins of football, someone will be able to you how many contests there are. If you want to describe what we talk about here in those terms then dumb is picking the missed goals for special mention and ignoring every other contest that effects the momentum of a game.

Author:	Craig_Bradley [ Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Semi Final Pros and Cons
Blue Sombrero you posted 'Murphy has to take responsibility for that loss.' I think people objected to you singling out one of, if not the, best player for us on the night for a greater degree of responsibility than any of the others. I'd nominate the following as just as important as Murphy's misses in terms of momentum: 1. Davies' conceded goals - panicky free kick for the Eagles' second and the obvious one. 2. Setanta and Simmo missing at the start of the last. 3. Losing Thornton, Scotland's impact reduced - Kennedy recovering (nb - no one has even raised the question of him returning to the ground when he must have been mildly concussed - funny omission from the chat when it was on everyone's minds at the start of the year) 4. Even Juddy's awful turnover kick to give them the first in the 3rd + the failure of Walker to track Hurn closely. And as many have pointed out, a game involves so many more decisions/executions of skill. I haven't had the heart to go back and watch it all again but you'll see things like Joseph losing out to Kerr in a tight tussle for a clearance on the wing, Setanta conceding free kicks/50s, failing to kill the ball and letting McGinnity score one over the back. You argue that people made a personal attack on you - and you were just letting off some steam - well so were those who had a dig back at you. I wouldn't really get all that fussed about it. Anyway, end of 2011 for me on TC - let's hope the 2012 goes a few weeks longer and ends with a close victory rather than a close loss! Or really just victory of any kind.

Author:	aramari [ Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Semi Final Pros and Cons
Craig_Bradley wrote: Blue Sombrero you posted 'Murphy has to take responsibility for that loss.' I think people objected to you singling out one of, if not the, best player for us on the night for a greater degree of responsibility than any of the others. I'd nominate the following as just as important as Murphy's misses in terms of momentum: 1. Davies' conceded goals - panicky free kick for the Eagles' second and the obvious one. 2. Setanta and Simmo missing at the start of the last. 3. Losing Thornton, Scotland's impact reduced - Kennedy recovering (nb - no one has even raised the question of him returning to the ground when he must have been mildly concussed - funny omission from the chat when it was on everyone's minds at the start of the year) 4. Even Juddy's awful turnover kick to give them the first in the 3rd + the failure of Walker to track Hurn closely. And as many have pointed out, a game involves so many more decisions/executions of skill. I haven't had the heart to go back and watch it all again but you'll see things like Joseph losing out to Kerr in a tight tussle for a clearance on the wing, Setanta conceding free kicks/50s, failing to kill the ball and letting McGinnity score one over the back. You argue that people made a personal attack on you - and you were just letting off some steam - well so were those who had a dig back at you. I wouldn't really get all that fussed about it. Anyway, end of 2011 for me on TC - let's hope the 2012 goes a few weeks longer and ends with a close victory rather than a close loss! Or really just victory of any kind. Joseph attacked it hard, the better man won the contest.

Author:	Figer [ Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Semi Final Pros and Cons
aramari wrote: Craig_Bradley wrote: Blue Sombrero you posted 'Murphy has to take responsibility for that loss.' I think people objected to you singling out one of, if not the, best player for us on the night for a greater degree of responsibility than any of the others. I'd nominate the following as just as important as Murphy's misses in terms of momentum: 1. Davies' conceded goals - panicky free kick for the Eagles' second and the obvious one. 2. Setanta and Simmo missing at the start of the last. 3. Losing Thornton, Scotland's impact reduced - Kennedy recovering (nb - no one has even raised the question of him returning to the ground when he must have been mildly concussed - funny omission from the chat when it was on everyone's minds at the start of the year) 4. Even Juddy's awful turnover kick to give them the first in the 3rd + the failure of Walker to track Hurn closely. And as many have pointed out, a game involves so many more decisions/executions of skill. I haven't had the heart to go back and watch it all again but you'll see things like Joseph losing out to Kerr in a tight tussle for a clearance on the wing, Setanta conceding free kicks/50s, failing to kill the ball and letting McGinnity score one over the back. You argue that people made a personal attack on you - and you were just letting off some steam - well so were those who had a dig back at you. I wouldn't really get all that fussed about it. Anyway, end of 2011 for me on TC - let's hope the 2012 goes a few weeks longer and ends with a close victory rather than a close loss! Or really just victory of any kind. Joseph attacked it hard, the better man won the contest.

Author:	Blue Sombrero [ Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Semi Final Pros and Cons
Craig_Bradley wrote: Blue Sombrero you posted 'Murphy has to take responsibility for that loss.' I think people objected to you singling out one of, if not the, best player for us on the night for a greater degree of responsibility than any of the others. I'd nominate the following as just as important as Murphy's misses in terms of momentum: 1. Davies' conceded goals - panicky free kick for the Eagles' second and the obvious one. 2. Setanta and Simmo missing at the start of the last. 3. Losing Thornton, Scotland's impact reduced - Kennedy recovering (nb - no one has even raised the question of him returning to the ground when he must have been mildly concussed - funny omission from the chat when it was on everyone's minds at the start of the year) 4. Even Juddy's awful turnover kick to give them the first in the 3rd + the failure of Walker to track Hurn closely. And as many have pointed out, a game involves so many more decisions/executions of skill. I haven't had the heart to go back and watch it all again but you'll see things like Joseph losing out to Kerr in a tight tussle for a clearance on the wing, Setanta conceding free kicks/50s, failing to kill the ball and letting McGinnity score one over the back. You argue that people made a personal attack on you - and you were just letting off some steam - well so were those who had a dig back at you. I wouldn't really get all that fussed about it. Anyway, end of 2011 for me on TC - let's hope the 2012 goes a few weeks longer and ends with a close victory rather than a close loss! Or really just victory of any kind. I agree with everything there. I would just point out one thing. ALL of the things you mentioned, occurred AFTER we had lost the momentum. We lost it immediately after Murphy's second easy miss. No matter what else you may argue, there is no denying that fact. Kick those two goals, we are 6 in front with the momentum and the crowd silent (no crowd effect on the umpiring). Of course we may still have lost. Unlikely.