PROS

-Much better 2nd half, at least we're a fit team
-Jamison came back and looked very fit. We looked so much better when he went forward in a "Silvagni lost cause type hail Mary". Proved he can play forward in finals if only we didn't need him down back. He's a funny boke - did a great Setanta impression with the panicky snap
- Henderson seemed all at sea in early marking contests on Buddy, but after a couple of nice runs and kicks got some confidence and more than held his own
- Laidler seemed our only competent footballer at times tonight
-Simpson good as usual
-Walker did some good things
-This game is likely irrelevant to our ladder position
-We have a week off at the perfect time.
-Spots up for grabs: Russell, Setanta, Bower, Hampson, Watson, Curnow, Kerr, Lucas, Houlihan etc have 2 games to impress
CONS

-2nd half effort, while brave, has less credibility given Hawthorn seemed to ease off.
-Appalling kicking at goal AGAIN. Betts, Gibbs, Garlett
-Appeared to choke in finals-type pressure
-Garlett was incredibly poor early. WTF was that kick when facing the boundary? Poor decisions. Confidence was shot - 3 shots from 50 didn't make the distance - lost confidence, lost timing with kicks. Saved his place with solid 2nd half.
-Monstered in close, shat themselves in the first half, poor first touch and Hawks excellent pressure did the rest
-Robinson and Ellard have dropped off completely, leaving Judd and Murphy exposed-major headache
-Thornton may have played himself out of the finals team. Bower and Setanta to push hard.
-What to make of the rucks? Kreuzer was terrible and slow, and as a forward the best he can do is bring it to ground, poor body work in marking contests. Warnock an absolute liability around the ground. Hampson played a few excellent games prior to injury and IF he were at the required level (unlikely given it takes him some time to get the hang of things) I would drop either one of K or W.
-We aren't going to be a serious finals team without a proper key forward. No Waite = No Carlton. Setanta must come in if form permits. Jamison has the presence required, but he's needed elsewhere.

PROS

getting close even though Judd had his worst game for ages

Jamo's return, looked confident on the knee

Biggest pro - a game complete with no added INJURIES! (even though Carrots shoulder could be in trouble)

seems we're fitter, they looked like theyd run out of legs in the last

CONS

that really hard blade of grass in the fwd pocket that Thornton tripped over!!

hawthorn CAN play, Clarko's got game alright!

(was a dud of a phys-ed teacher at school, but boy does he knows game plans)

Pros:

Jamison back

No Houlihan in the first half

Cons:

No Houlihan to kick the ball

Didn't have to ask Judd to go to the well again to get within two kicks

The calls for Setanta to play. And people say Bower's and Austin's reputation have grown because they're not playing. We might as well bring De luca back.

Cons:
Absolutely shat ourselves in the first half

Pros:
Forgot about all that in the second half

_________________

************************************************************
NOW YOU'RE JUST SOME CLUB THAT I USED TO KNOW.

Cons
Bit finals players now

Havent beaten a top 4 side

PANICKY immature weak performance in first half

Dreadful ball use most of the game -even use in final quarter ordinary

only 4 quarter performance from about 4 players

Losing to Hawthorn again

kicking for goal - misses from the goal square - 3 goals 6 last quarter

knowing game was gone after half way into second quarter

terrible panicky performance like thay will lead to losing first final

Get darren harris to work with betts garlett gibbs et al - kicking for goal has killed us for the last 6 years

pro
Joseph best 2 games for the club the last 2 -seems surer with the ball

Hendo - shakey at start but got better
Jamo good return after 6 weeks

murphy scotland simpson
hopefully we will learn from that

Gibbs seems to me to hook his shots at goal. All the misses I remember have been to the left side as he faces goal. He needs some assistance there.

I know C Rioli is a super player and does some amazing things but I have never seen a player getting credit for even doing the ordinary like he does. If the ball is anywhere in his vicinity, even if its in the hands of another Hawks player, the Hawks fans start caling out "Cyril, Cyril".
Then if he actually takes possession and gives off a handball, even a standard one, it "OOh Cyril, you are amazing"
When he got caught holding the ball, it was "He's human"

Joseph owned him last night. Good game.

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T E A M

Agree with the rest of your pros and cons but there's no way the Hawks eased off. We clearly lifted, which we were unable to do in the first half.

PROS
- Jamison is a gun footballer. To come back and play that well after 8 weeks out was fantastic
- Simmo and Scotland, as always
- Hendo got better and better and means we could use Jamo forward more often if Setanta/Waite aren't in
- Played very well at times in 2nd half, even if finishing was still poor
- Fitness seemed fine
- AJ beat Cyril
- Judd was non existent, meaning a 12 point deficit was probably quite amazing
- Carlton crowd was great, once we had an opportunity to actually cheer
- Another opportunity for us to see what we need to improve to really compete in these types of games

CONS
- Insipid first half, as bad as the effort against Collingwood in 2010
- When the heat is on, we are found wanting. Too many soft efforts, and too many panicked disposals under pressure. But the very first thing was our ball handling. It was like a cake of soap for us in the first half. This dot point is easily the one that upsets me the most. Was depressing watching us go to water when the pressure was on. Yes, second half was braver, but it's easier to play that sort of footy when you're coming from behind. We need to be toe to to in the contest from the very start.
- Flat track bully tag continues to linger
- Kicking for goal terrible at Etihad again
- Rightly our wrongly, our ladder position means we are relegated to the finals sideshow rather than the real stuff

CONS:

Too many to mention or remember them all. First half was the worst I've seen since the Pagan years, completely unacceptable given our list. Scared, clumsy, second to the ball and/or fumbling immediately, handballing to a player about to be tackled, always 2 seconds behind the play. Hawthorn had loose men everywhere, we zoned off terribly. Hawks' uncontested possession count must have been massive in the first half. Duigan was woeful in the first half, almost like he kniows there's cameras now after OWAAT. First real game where he's felt the SANFL/AFL jump but I have faith he can acclimatise. Carrazzo horribly out of touch, even for his usual inaccuracies. T-Bird had a few mistakes at (unlucky) key moments and being much maligned, he's not the player that can get away with that sadly.

Kicking for goal was attrocious, field kicking not much better and decision making going into the forward 50 was borderline retarded. There was no pressure in our forward 50, the ball rebounded out far too easily where at the other end, Hawthorn were able to crush us into our defensive goalsquare with immense pressure. Every time the reverse camera angle showed the field from behind Yarran etc looking for a target to kick to, I cringed - reminded me of Carlton circa 2000's where no-one presented for targets, we stood like stunned mullets on kickout until the umpire moved it on. Some truly marvellous things last night got completely obliterated a millisecond later by kicking it or passing it straight to a Hawks player. Really starting to think Garlett needs a week in the Ants (maybe even this week?) to get rid of the yips a-la Thomas from Norf. Gibbsy choking the way he did was disappointing, I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt but we should expect our big players to stand up when it's their time - clutch hitters are vital in finals footy.

Midfield non-existent, Robbo and Ellard MIA, Judd and Murph way down, even Heath our rock was making errors. It felt as though the boys thought it was a privelege to play the Hawks - too stand-offish, too reactive, too hands-off, too bruise-free. Scoreboard reflected our complete surrender to the contest and if I never see a passage of play let alone a half like that again it'll be too soon. Have never condoned walking out of a game but if I'd been at Shitihad last night I think I would have at half time. Embrassing and unacceptable. I'm still pissed off.

PROS:
Obviously a real crack in the second half. I don't believe Hawthorn took the foot off, I feel we really found our mark and began to play our game. AJ was fantastic, he'll have a play of the day this week. Great job negating Rioli. I thought Hendo did a really good job on Buddy once we stop being overawed by the occasion. Jamo up forward was an interesting experiment with favourable results, congrats on your first goal Scientist! Gave me a bit of joy in a downer night. Simmo tried his guts out as he does every week, most players improved in the second half. Laidler played well all night, he was among the VERY few 4 quarter players last night. The fact that we managed to overcome incredible pressure, substandard delivery and a massive deficit to almost steal the game away says a bit for our mental resolve, however we shouldn't have ever been in that position. The fact that we could have won this game yet still finished in 5th on the ladder anyway makes the loss slightly bearable (only just though). We've learnt a lot about Hawthorn 20111 and how their flooding really puts us under the pump; how if we play on by hand and take the game on we can overcome this. We learnt that uncontested possessions are a killer when a team has oustanding field accuracy - we cannot afford to zone off. Most of all we learnt that last night wasn't a case of unfit bodies, it was a case of unfit minds. We're a great white shark with the brain of a goldfish at the moment - the boys need to remember who they are, what they're capable of and treat every team with disrespect and no mercy. We kissed Hawthorn's ass for too long last night and they shat all over our faces. Never again.

Take the bye, rest a few tired bodies, get games into others via the Ants, come back and make a statement against St Kilda like we did post West Coast and post Dogs/Collingwood - no reason why we can't belt the bejesus out of the Saints and walk ourselves into fearsome form for the first week of finals. No passengers, no excuses. Our fate has been out of our hands for most of the final third of the season. Now we'll end up 5th, the bonus game is history and our fate is back in our hands again. I'm hoping this accountability will be drilled into the team and our senior players will bring our youngsters into the fold. The bye is a long time, but off-season's even longer.

If you plan on laying down your guns like that again Carlton, please let me know in advance so I don't have to watch. On second thoughts, just don't ever do it again. You're better than that.

Cons:

- We play conservative, I'm convinced it's part of our game plan to keep the game close in the first half, then come steaming home. Just review our games this year.
- Armfield showed why JR will be back against the Saints
- Warnock was pathetic in the first half especially.
- Judd, Murphy, Gibbs all had shockers in the first half, Judd looked flat the whole game.
- Our handling and disposal under pressure was un-Carlton of 2011.
- T-Bird playing a half forward before a change
- Garlett could have been the match winner early, but lacked length in this kicks and made some poor decisions. I don't mind him trying things, but sometimes he needs to do the team thing.

Pros:

- Simmo is the barometer
- Laidler and Hendo did a good job in defence
- AJ on Cyril was great. Can't stop the defensive efforts of Cyril which had an impact on the result.
- Kreuzer's ground work and grunt in the ruck is needed more often. Too much time up forward.
- Scotland good as always.

Surprised people thought Warnock was that poor. Around the ground not great, but thought he controlled the ruck contests, even in the first half.

Always enjoy your posts Scotty. Well said. Your comment on us being a great white shark with the mentality of a goldfish is correct. We still lack that extra 10% you get between the ears.

Pros
- Jamo back and played well. Heartening to see after all the subterfuge around his injury.
- AJ giving Cyril another bath.
- Henderson in defence overall.
- Ratts swinging Jamo down forward and Walker in the middle. Can't say he didn't try anything.
- Second half showed we are a fit team.

Cons
- Sitting there watching us play better in the second half being completely frustrated knowing it would ultimately be futile.
- Odds were stacked against us: playing at Etihad, playing the Hawks, playing after a short break and interstate trip. Thanks AFL.
- Entire team in the entire first half. Probably even worse than the Dogs game.
- Goal kicking. Can we please, please address this before the finals. If we play a final at Etihad we need to practice kicking there indoors.
- Need a marking forward target badly.
- Garlett. I'm one of his biggest fans but he needs to work on his kicking and decision making. Missed two sitters, didn't even make the distance twice.

Cons

- Scottie Thorton feeling after-effects of Freo game
- Gartlett's goal kicking
- Matthew Warnock doesn't take enough marks around the ground


Pros

- Laidlaw was servicable
- Yarren good run out of defence
- Jamieson great first game back

_________________
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/

The fumbling really stood out for me last night. I think with surer hands, we would have been right in the game even at 1/2 time

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T E A M

Pro
Henderson, Laidler, Yarran, Simmo, Walker, Jamo

Con
first half (as bad as i've seen all year)
kicking for goal
206. tries hard but seriously needs to get in the gym over summer. AND get on the angry pills (refer Dean Brogan). you gotta give us some presence Knockers!!

_________________
i don't wanna spend my life explaining myself. Either you get it, or you don't- Frank Zappa

Pros

- Hendo for me really had a crack, got beaten on a couple of occassion only, i was a massive critic of this bloke but i must say he has been pretty solid and last night was a good game by him

- Simpson, kept coming all night, tireless running.... puts in all the time

- Yarrans run out of defence is deadly.... i love this bloke

- We didnt pack it up and get slapped, we changed somethings and dealt with the press, in years gone by that would have been a 70 pt plus loss

- we were most likely gonna be 5th anyway, so not much harm done ladder wise

Cons

- First half we were fumbling bad, and blokes that are generally clean by hand and foot, ( Murphy and Scotland ) made bad mistakes very unlike them

- Goal kicking.... Betts, Gartlett easy misses in the first half... and Gibbs two misses in the second half killed us.... that one running into 50 on his own directly in front was an absolute shocker. Could have pinched the game

- Warnock, just not strong enough, he should have destroyed that game

- Killed in the clearances 1st half

_________________
Matty Kruzer you star!

Moshe, you're not a football commentator by chance?

Oh yeh and big PRO - AJ .... Cyril is meant to be some sort of star.... he got belted by AJ,,, good game AJ

_________________
Matty Kruzer you star!

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Pros
Simmo, as usual
Scotland again
Jamo got through the game and got better as it went on.
Good fighting comeback in second half, years ago we would have got smashed by 10 goals.
No apparent injuries.

Cons
first half
Our goal kicking, which is now a real problem
Sloppy disposals and turnovers.
Is Laidler in trouble for a late bump?
Foul mouthed idiot sitting a couple of rows behind me, couldnt find any security to complain or no number was on the scoreboard to dob him in.

Doogan needs a rest too - add that to the cons, but add to the pros that we have the bye so he can get his rest then.