A recent trip to NYC (including a night at Yankee Stadium) got me thinking anew about something that's been bugging me for a while.

The New York Yankees are lucky enough to have one of the cleanest, simplest and most recognized logos in world sport. But of course, they know this and protect it and milk it for all its worth.

Consider this: when a Yankees fan sees a photo of their greatest ever player, Babe Ruth, they see him proudly wearing the NY logo:



Sixty years on, and their current favourite player is Derek Jeter. And when they see Derek go out to bat, they see him proudly wearing the same logo that Babe Ruth wore all those years ago:



When you look at a photo or footage of arguably our greatest ever player, the great John Nicholls, you see him proudly wearing a logo that had all the power, symmetry and simplicity of the great Yankees logo:



Forty years on, when we see our current favourite player, he's wearing a logo that is quite different:


The question is, why??

Why can one of the biggest, most professional (and profitable) sporting clubs in the world manage to keep their identity intact, and we can't?

Why did we feel the need to change our logo to allegedly 'modernise' it, when a team/brand as powerful and relevant and successful as the Yankees felt it appropriate to keep their identity the same as it ever was: the famous pinstripes, and the famous logo. Design like that never loses its appeal or its relevance.

The NY Yankees logo works on EVERYTHING, everywhere. They use it on merchandise, uniforms, the stadium, caps, memorabilia... everything. And it's a hell of a lot like the classic logo someone (more in this in a second) decided to phase out over a decade ago.

So... onto the WHO?

Who, exactly, decided to do this? Who thought it appropriate to throw out the key symbol that represented the MOST SUCCESSFUL PERIOD IN OUR CLUB'S HISTORY? Who, exactly, decided that the jumper Big Nick and Jezza and Kernahan and SOS and Bradley and all our other greats wore in those Grand Finals was no longer relevant?

I reckon it was the decision of a third-rate mind, and I also reckon changing the jumper to that degree should have been a very, very big deal. Not just something that was decided by some functionary at the club on a whim.

Pisses me off to think that we had a great symbol, and we threw it away for a far weaker version of the CFC, for no apparent reason or benefit.

I know there will be people who'll say "who cares... it's a carlton jumper and it's still the CFC..." and that's true. But it's only half the story. We had something great and we replaced it with something ordinary. We went from powerful and simple with a brutal elegance, to something weak, spindly and messy.

Yankees fans would burn the stadium down if the owner tried doing that (not that he'd be stupid enough), and rightly so. I tell you, if I was lucky enough to be born a Pratt, we'd be starting Season 2012 wearing the same logo that Carlton greats like Big Nick made famous.

But, of course, I'm just some guy ranting on a forum. So the whale-bones it is. Pity.

Send this to Jeannie...

I'm happy to be signature number 2 on the petition.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

make that 3 on the petition

A decent rant, and one the gentlmen may have had in way back in the early to mid 1900's, when the Carlton Monogram looked nothing like the one Big Nick was wearing but nonetheless they won 5 Premierships in (albeit in several different looking designs).

I had a look at this website which is fantastic;

http://www.sportslogos.net/index.php

And found out the Yankees have had several different logo's and sub-logos.

This is the "Primary" Logo. This became the "Primary" Logo back in 1947, one year before Babe Ruth passed.



This is the "Alternate" Logo. This came in, in 1909. They had 7 different logos before hand including when they were Baltimore.



I don't mind the change, but I wouldn't mind seeing them go back to the "Nick" style.

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Go to http://www.snoutslouts.org/ for a look at the mighty GFC...

Bring back the notches!!!

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

+1.

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Hooked on The Blues

Well I'll be the heretic - I prefer the new design.

What I really don't like though is all the advertising crap.
Here's a thought : how about the AFL takes some of it's newly acquired billions
and buys out the clubs guernsey sponsorships so that all the clubs can go back
to clean jumpers. I reckon it'd significantly reduce the need for clash jumpers as well.
(Please don't bother posting telling me it'll never happen - duh!)

No offense - but I really can't see how you can be so concerned about fairly minor changes
in the logo shape with all that other sh*t there. (And I include that stupid AFL badge in that as well).

On the Yankees, they may call their NY logo the 'secondary' logo, but it's still the one they use on their uniforms. It's still the one they have on their stadium. It's still the one they have on all their merchandise. And it's still the one 80% of New Yorkers wear on their caps.

The 'primary' logo does a job for them, mainly a bit of colour and movement. But you go into the Yankees store over there, and 95% of stuff will have the classic logo. Because that's what sells, because that's what the people want.

Where they've been clever is in finding a way to introduce some new stuff, without screwing with their heritage. We just screwed the pooch by trading down from a classic to a piece of poop.


Re Carlton's old-school monograms... yep, get that. But when you look at the monogram that has defined our club, it's the one that Big Nick is wearing. Just like the Yankees came to prominence when Babe Ruth lit the place up... we came to the fore as a club and as a sporting brand during the great modern era ushered in by those champions.

We had monograms before that. But given there's not a lot of historical footage of them, they don't really have much in the way of resonance.

Anyway Jeannie... if you're reading this, feel free to adopt me and second me to the board as a single-issue candidate. A few more research trips to NYC and I'll be ready to make some concrete recommendations.

None taken.

But one (the advertising) is an economic imperative, and without it we simply can't survive as a club.

The other (the monogram) is entirely within our control.

Why am I concerned? Well, I don't lie awake at night about it... but I think these things matter. I think our monogram is important. And I don't know how or why anyone came to the conclusion that the jumper Kernahan/Doull/Jezza/Big Nick wore on the Premiership Dais was somehow wrong, and needed fixing.

I also have a professional interest in design, marketing and advertising. So I'm probably conscious of things like this moreso than most.

And I think the Yankees are a great example of how you respect your heritage and reap the rewards.

The OP's 2 photographic examples of the NY logo are not identical.
I'd suggest that the current logo (on Juddy's jumper) is closer to our original club logo, and it is only due to a lack of technology available to put the original design on the 1960s jumpers.

I'd agree with that.

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And only 7 that you like;
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Or 20 ways to start a fight.

I get JohnM's point, and agree with it for the most part. Trouble is, part of what makes the Yankees brand work has little to do with sport and a lot to do with the fact the letters represent New York. So, when you're wearing a Yankees cap, sure people will know it's for a baseball team, but they'll probably just as equally recognise it as a "New York" cap.

There's plenty of other similar monograms in US sports that don't have the same brand strength and I'd say that has a large part to do with the fact that Kansas City, for example, just isn't as sexy as New York.

So, that's why there's merit in them protecting the "NY" monogram.

As for why we have changed our CFC monogram, well, I'd say part of it is now down to manufacturing improvements in that it's much easier to reproduce a design that is the same over and over again. The old skool CFC design that JohnM likes was handmade IIRC and would have been different on every single jumper. That's part of the appeal, of course, and I kind of liked that the old jumpers were different, and not mass produced.

Having said all that, there's no reason why the modern day jumpers couldn't have picked the best "Big Nick" era monogram and run with that. Or, at the very least, they could bring back the notches!

One final proposition, however, JohnM has said the old monogram resonates with him largely due to it representing an era aligned with success. Would he (or I, and others) feel the same way about the 2011 design if we'd just worn it to a few premierships?

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THEY LIKE TO SEND UP!!!!!!!!

Until each team plays each other the same number of times, the AFL, as a fair dinkum competition, cannot be taken seriously.

He (Mr Swann) said the honour and pride associated with the club's traditional navy blue jumper was priceless.

You will notice looking at pictures of Ruth and now Derek Jeter that the NYY monogram is missing from one of their jersey's. That is because the interlocking NY didn't adorn the famous pinstripe uniform from 1917 to 1936. As such, some of the Yankees greatest players, Babe Ruth included, never played in jerseys that had the monogram sewn on.

Times change.

The "new" logo is beautiful. It is striking. It is better, in my opinion, than the NY one.

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"In fairness it did seem in the early days of the draft teams would just pick a name totally at random out of a hat. I'm pretty sure we picked James Cook at #2 one year. The mediocre forward, not the explorer" - Me, 12/9/2011

Carlton 2012: Lets remind them why they once feared the Dark.

The new logo is miles ahead of the others.........

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I see you watching me watching you.

I love ém both, but the old one reminds me of our fabulous history.

You could change it back to the old one tomorrow with little complaint.

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I hope Essendon* folds.

Notches. Notches. Notches.

And I bloody wish we'd go back to this as our 'club' logo



Instead of the sterile



Look at Melbourne's logo these days. They have gone for something that looks historical, they are the oldest club in the league and they've gone for an historical icon.

We are not as old as melbourne, but we've got a far greater onfield history over the journey.

Give us back our classy Mens Sana logo again.

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Congratulations CK95

Absolutely add me to the list...

This stupid decision was made during our "dark years" when some moron decided to update our brand.

Can you imagine Coca Cola, Ford, Apple, Virgin or McDonalds bastardising their image or brand in the same way?

Channel 9 tried it a few years ago (dropping the dots from the logo). Their ratings and revenue took a slide to such an alarming rate that they reversed the decision immediately.

To change the famous Carlton brand to a corporate version is one of the dumbest marketing moves seen. No other AFL club has the uniqueness the Carlton Football Club has. It is so hard to build a heretige position within a market and it defies logic that we would throw this away.

The scary thing is it is a strong indication that the people in charge don't actually know what it is that makes us special. It is not simply membership numbers that makes you successful.

If "you could change it back to the old one tomorrow with little complaint" - you've probably got it wrong...

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"...that's the thing about opinion - you don't have to know anything to have one..." Andre Agassi commenting on Pat Cash 2004
"...the less you know - the more you believe..." - Bono 2006

Great post John. You are absolutely right. I have written to the club about this. Greg Swann replied saying they were conducting a review of the jumper (this was about 2 years ago) but are obviously happy with the current design as nothing changed.
I also spoke to Sticks after the AGM. I put it to him that didn`t he want to see the players wearing the same jumper that he wore in 2 premierships? Didn`t that magnificent old style jumper mean something to him? The jumper we have had all the success in?(the jumper i remember growing up loving)
His response was,"this is the first time anyone has raised the issue".(complete bs i thought).Just then Adrian Gleeson walked past and i asked him the same questions. He said "yes i get asked this all the time". He(Sticks) said it would be too hard to get a uniform look but i pointed out that we/Nike have done this already with the Heritage rounds. He didn`t want to know about it. Bloody disappointing for mine.
I think a viable solution would be to use the old style jumper against our traditional rivals(Coll, Rich, Ess, Melb) the current one against the rest and the 97` Heritage jumper as the clash jumper.

Agree. Hawthorn and Richmond have also gone back to their traditional jumpers.