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Forward Line Options
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29826		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  MoodyBlue [ Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Forward Line Options
I have a serious question for anyone who goes to the games. I have noticed over the past 2 weeks against quality opposition how predictable we are especially up forward. Collingwood and Essendon* roate their midfield through the bench AND the forward line. Players such as Swann, Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Didak, Watson, Jetta all spend time up forward and kick goals. We seem to stay with 2-3 talls and Garlett and Betts or Collins. If we don't get a clear possession the opposition run it out so quickly. We seem to work so hard for every goal.

Surely having, Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Simpson, Scotland, Ellard, Simpson, Curnow all spending time up forward would make us more dangerous??
Author:  Megaman [ Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Forward Line Options
With our long bombs into the F50 we just need to pick up a Carey and a Johnno Brown in the midseason draft and we'll be away
Author:  Juddy&theKruezers [ Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Forward Line Options
We have no system whatsoever when we enter fwd 50...has been this way for the last few years and it aint getting any better....I said pre-season we really need to improve our setups and structures and fwd entries...its still early in the season and much tinkering will still be made but if nothing else it should be very clear 4 rounds in what is NOT working when we go forward....
Author:  AGRO [ Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Forward Line Options
We were told by Ratts and others that our small mid's would rest a lot of the time up forward - but I haven't seen it happening all that much.
Author:  Mark J [ Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Forward Line Options
When you run away from the ball carrier, instead of toward him, 9 times out of 10 you will be flying for a contested mark.

Thats what happened today.....either dumb instruction from the relevant coach or players who have no idea...i suspect a bit of both
Author:  missnaut [ Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Forward Line Options
Play in front and lead hard. Not rocket science.
Author:  mikkey [ Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Forward Line Options
Mark J wrote:
When you run away from the ball carrier, instead of toward him, 9 times out of 10 you will be flying for a contested mark.

Thats what happened today.....either dumb instruction from the relevant coach or players who have no idea...i suspect a bit of both



Good point. It is also the difference between a "lower" sharp kick to a front leading forward or a high bomb to a pack with our guys outnumbered.
Author:  The Normal One [ Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Forward Line Options
Henderson will make a difference. Hopefully today was an aberration.

I think Walker was missed today as he adds variety.

Mitchell without playing a game is the great white hope for me.
Author:  jimmae [ Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Forward Line Options
Megaman wrote:
With our long bombs into the F50 we just need to pick up a Carey and a Johnno Brown in the midseason draft and we'll be away

:lol:

We stifle a lot of ball movement in midfield and spray a lot of obvious kicks to leads coming into the 50 due to not working to give each other space and time through the middle. I think we need to sort that out as a team first before we can really point the finger at the forward structure.

In terms of personnel, Henderson needs to get into form ASAP. Waite is doing well despite everyone's claims to the contrary, and Jeff is producing some fantastic football. Walker has been patchy but showed exactly how much he was missed for his leading and ground work when subbed in.

It's pretty much tidy up the entries and give Eddie a spell in my book. Perhaps someone other than Carrazzo or Robinson to play the defensive HF role.
Author:  Laguna Legend [ Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Forward Line Options
jimmae wrote:
Megaman wrote:
With our long bombs into the F50 we just need to pick up a Carey and a Johnno Brown in the midseason draft and we'll be away

:lol:

We stifle a lot of ball movement in midfield and spray a lot of obvious kicks to leads coming into the 50 due to not working to give each other space and time through the middle. I think we need to sort that out as a team first before we can really point the finger at the forward structure.

In terms of personnel, Henderson needs to get into form ASAP. Waite is doing well despite everyone's claims to the contrary, and Jeff is producing some fantastic football. Walker has been patchy but showed exactly how much he was missed for his leading and ground work when subbed in.

It's pretty much tidy up the entries and give Eddie a spell in my book. Perhaps someone other than Carrazzo or Robinson to play the defensive HF role.



as much as Im loving Yazz's run off HB, maybe swap mitch and Yazz, as we saw today "The River" (yarra) loves a goal and is a natural goal-kicker aswell, and has shown he can be very defensive when needed. worth a week to try it? especially if Bettsy gets dropped?
Author:  jimmae [ Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Forward Line Options
I'd prefer him providing play off HB for 20 possessions, than 10 at HF as he snaps around at packs and maybe snags a couple of goals.

Today he disrupted play in defence, set up 3 goals and kicked one himself. He's set to be AA at this rate.
Author:  buzzaaaah [ Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Forward Line Options
I'd agree with jimmae on this one. Yarran at 1/2 back has been a winner. Why change?
Author:  Laguna Legend [ Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Forward Line Options
buzzaaaah wrote:
I'd agree with jimmae on this one. Yarran at 1/2 back has been a winner. Why change?


as i said im loving him at Hb and want to keep him there too, but mitch is looking pretty good too, and it just seems to me at the moment the forward line is SO lacking something, ANYTHING in fact, and mitch doesnt have the capacity to kick 2 or 3 week in week out AND be the defensive fwd, whereas Yarran just might.
just a thought thats all. definitely not something I WANT to happen, but if the fwd line continuse to operate as such, id feel it might be a pretty sound solution.
Author:  Juddy&theKruezers [ Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Forward Line Options
Laguna Legend wrote:
buzzaaaah wrote:
I'd agree with jimmae on this one. Yarran at 1/2 back has been a winner. Why change?


as i said im loving him at Hb and want to keep him there too, but mitch is looking pretty good too, and it just seems to me at the moment the forward line is SO lacking something, ANYTHING in fact, and mitch doesnt have the capacity to kick 2 or 3 week in week out AND be the defensive fwd, whereas Yarran just might.
just a thought thats all. definitely not something I WANT to happen, but if the fwd line continuse to operate as such, id feel it might be a pretty sound solution.

All the forward line lacks is system...simple system....where each forward knows where to run to when the ball is in our hands....but unfortunately as many have stated this system is unattainable due to most of our players being dumb....luck of the draw I guess....
Author:  Laguna Legend [ Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Forward Line Options
anyone know anyone with a time machine?
put hendo bout 30 games into the future and we're set i reckon
Author:  SurreyBlue [ Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Forward Line Options
Maybe the John Barker comments by some when hired have some merit. I hope not!
Author:  The Rhino [ Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Forward Line Options
Was our forward line, after Setanta got injured last year, really that great to begin with?
Author:  Steve_C7 [ Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Forward Line Options
Our biggest problem is that all our forwards lead to the ball, which makes it easy for defenders to get an extra player in the contest. We don't rotate enough of our mids through the forward line and are not disciplined enough for our players to spread hard to isolate the opposition defenders.

We have more than enough talent with Waite, Henderson, Garlett, betts and warnock/kruiser, but if we don't get a stucture in place where it is predicable to our mids and other forwards of where to lead and kick the ball, then we are always going to look like we kick in hope.
Author:  Sydney Blue [ Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Forward Line Options
For 8 years we never really drafted a natural forward and the ones we did sat in reserves whilst we had our magic clown performing his tricks
Author:  Blue Vain [ Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Forward Line Options
Workrate, structure and an understanding of individual roles. All absent IMO.
Good defences will protect the corridor and concede the pockets where the goalscoring opportunities are diminished. Unfortunately our forwards accept the option provided out wide or prefer to play from behind (Which we have done for years). Both soft, lazy options.
Good forwards with a strong work ethic will work their opponents over to create the space required. Nick Riewoldt isn't overly quick but he blows his opponents up with repeated leading and long searching leads up the ground.
With regard to structure, if neither team had a structure in our forward half and we went one on one, surely you could expect to win 50% of contests. Yet Essendon* took 10 marks in our forward 50 in the first quarter compared to our 1?
What does that tell us? 1. We are very unlucky? 2. Our players are lazy and/or stupid? 3. Our skills are abysmal? 4. Our players have no idea what our structure is and what their roles are? 5. All of the above?

Personally I suspect it's somewhere between lazy, undisciplined and not understanding roles/structures completely. Firstly, we need to eradicate this ridiculous belief from the forwards that a running/fatigued midfielder will be able to kick the ball 60 metres over his opponents head so Mr Waite/Walker can take a speccy. They need to increase their work rate significantly so they can drag their opponents outside 50, thus creating options for others. Repeatedly.
Secondly, Eddie Betts is not a key marking target. In fact, Eddie cant outrun slow opponents at the moment let alone the quick ones that are assigned to him. He therefore cannot compete in a marking contest. His role should be solely at the feet of the marking talls.

What I'd like to see? Eddie and a resting ruckman in the goalsquare for the long/get out option. Henderson or Walker, Waite and Jeffy up around half forward line working much harder than they are now. Long searching, seperate leads and repeated leads that wont neccesarily get rewarded with the ball but will see reward with fatigued defenders which in turn creates space and removes opposition defensive structure. It also creates room for our mids to run inside 50 and have more impact on the scoreboard.
Thirdly, our team needs to understand that this is our forward structure. Leading players who have worked hard to gain an advantage on their opponents need to be hit up. It will ensure the defenders stop zoning off and most importantly, it will reward the hard work of the leading player hopefully ensuring he'll continue working.
Lastly, if our forwards continue to play lazy selfish footy, they need to be dropped. No allowances for mates or long term players.

It sounds simple really. But apparently it's not.
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