WARNING – This thread is a geek zone. I repeat. This thread is a geek zone.



I’m enjoying a quiet Saturday night in, and Doc’s “What If” thread about Sticks coming over in ’81 got me thinking about a fantasy match between the best team of David Parkin’s 1st stint as coach (1981-1985) vs the best team of Parkin’s 2nd stint (1991-2000)...

1981-1985
English Southby Perovic
Harmes Doull Hunter
Maylin Johnston Glascott
Buckley Maclure Bosustow
Marcou Ditchburn McConville
Fitzpatrick Sheldon Ashman
Inter: Alvin, Blackwell, Madden, Meldrum

1991-2000
Hogg Silvagni Dean
McKay Sexton Christou
Kouta Williams Hanna
Campo Spalding Brown
Pearce Kernahan Whitnall
Madden Ratten Bradley
Inter: Allan, Clape, Manton, Rice

Note - I have judged players on their performance during the specified periods, not necessarily on their overall career. Accordingly Alvin, Dean, Madden, Meldrum, Rhys-Jones and SOS qualified for both teams (ie. they played in both of Parkin’s two stints) – but only Madden had the form in both periods to make both teams. Rhys-Jones played his best footy under Walls, so I haven’t selected him in either side. Similarly, champions like Armstrong, Austin, Keogh and Swan McKay played under Parkin in the twilight of their careers and so I couldn’t find a place for them in the ‘80s side under my criteria.

PREDICTIONS:

I think there would be some positional shuffling on game day, and the match-ups would go something like this-

English vs Brown: Two tough customers, but I think the 90’s have the advantage here. Browny would change in the midfield with Williams and Ratten, and Des would have his hands full all day.

Southby vs Kernahan: What a contest this would be! Sticks obviously has a height advantage, but Southby always found a way against all types of opponents. Southby would get great support from his teammates, but I think Sticks would prevail….but he’d be certainly made to earn it!

Doull vs Whitnall: A win for the ‘80s side here, although the young forward would provide some headaches for the legendary defender.

Harmes vs Pearce: Two explosive players here. The ‘80s side won’t like Harmes being dragged deep into defence, but he should be able to get the job done on the dangerous Pearce.

Perovic vs Spalding: Two cult-heroes who’d have a tough battle. Big Earl would have to play near his best to get the better of Big Val in his prime.

Glascott vs Campo: Intriguing contest between two smart and skilful players. I’d give Campo the edge in overall talent, but I could imagine Glascott exposing Campo’s defensive side going the other way if he got support from his teammates. Glascott would follow Campo onto the ball when he switches with Bradley.

Hunter vs Kouta: I know Hunter wasn't a midfielder, but he was such a versatile player and I think he’d be the man for the big job on Kouta. Kenny would keep Kouta honest both in the air and on the ground, but Kouta’s sheer size, athleticism and talent should prevail. You’d travel a long way to watch these two go head to head… If Kouta gets on top or drags Kenny to the goal square, I think McConville would be Plan B for the 80s against Kouta.

Williams vs Johnston: A couple of shrinking violets here, eh?! As much as I love Johnno, I think Diesel would come out on top. Both could push forward and kick goals if their team needs a lift.

Hanna vs Maylin: Mil vs Phil. I think Mil would be too big and strong, but Maylin would try to run off Hanna and challenge his defensive game.

McKay vs Buckley: Another dream match-up. I’ll back the ‘90s man.

Dean vs Maclure: Two proud leaders who would respect each other enough to belt the living suitcase out of each other for 4 quarters… I’d give Maclure the slight edge.

Christou vs Bosustow: A couple of flamboyant characters here. Buzz would have the advantage overhead, but would he be disciplined enough to curb Ang’s run out of defence?

Sexton vs McConville: Two quiet achievers. I’ll give Sexton the nod in this contest.

Silvagni vs Ditchburn: It was a toss of the coin whether to pick Ditchburn or Warren Ralph in the ‘80s side. I’m confident that SOS would better either one of them.

Hogg vs Marcou: Hoggy would wear Marcel like a cheap suit, but I don’t think he’d be able to keep the talented small forward/midfielder quiet all day. Hoggy might get moved to a tagging role on one of the other mosquito fleet members if someone like Ashman or Sheldon cuts loose.

Fitzpatrick/Madden vs Madden/Allan: Fitzpatrick to start in the ruck but then move forward to allow ‘80s Madden vs ‘90s Madden. The superior mobility of ‘80s Madden would be countered by the superior nous and guile of ‘90s Madden. Classic break even.

Ashman/Sheldon vs Bradley/Ratten: Exciting head-to-head midfield battle.

I fancy the ‘90s combination to come out on top. There’s obviously not much in it at all, but the ‘90s side has a size/strength advantage in most positions and I think a slight edge in midfield talent. The ‘80s side would try to open the game up and make it a free-flowing running game and try to use leg speed to their advantage. If there are frequent stoppages, the game will be played on the ‘90s side’s terms.

Both teams have exceptional backlines, so it could come down to which one cracks first. The ‘90s side has more scoring power in attack, but the ‘80s side might try to unsettle the ‘90s defensive unit by playing a small forward line with only one tall (Maclure or Fitzpatrick). They would try to isolate the ‘90s defenders and run them out of position.

Who do you think would win? Any differing views out there on my selections or predictions? Any discussion/feedback appreciated and encouraged...

I know it might be unfair to compare players from different eras, but this was a fun exercise…

Thanks for indulging me…

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

Wow,

You really know how to put up an impossible list. I'd be best to say a drawon any and every game they would play against each other. However I will lay my neck on the line to say the 90's squad is very slight and very slightly in front for only a few reasons.

Slightly better disposal skills on average between the 2 squads, and a slightly more structured movement of the ball as a game plan overall. Mainly because what I saw in the 1995 season, I have never, ever seen before in a Carlton squad. I am well over 40 years of age and have seen all these players play.

Hunter, Southby, Glascott, The Buzz, Madden, McConville, Harmes, The Dominator, Buckley and Doull were all hard working champs in the past. Would watch them play today in their previous peak form any day in our current squad.

But how do you go past SOS, Dean, MacKay, Sexton, Brown, Williams, Sticks, Rice, Lance in form and not fat, and Bradley (Mister runs 30kms in a game all day. O.K. I exagerated a little).

Man it still comes out to be a draw. You are an Ass asking suck a difficult question. I have just listed my best all time footy favourites for all time missing Judd, Special-K, big Nick, and Jezza. Good luck with this debate. It will last a dozen seasons at least. Cheers aboynamesue. By the way I am not a Geek. Nerd maybe.

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Bring the season on already. The wait is killing me.

Ha, cheers Mantis. I agree that a draw would be a fitting result...

By the way, I had to leave some good players out...

For the 80s side, premiership players Wells, Bortolotto, Klomp & Wow Jones come to mind. And, as already mentioned, there was nothing between Ralph & Ditchburn.

For the 90s side, I JUST left Hickmott out in favour of Clape, only because I think Hicky played his best footy under Brittain and because Clape was in the premiership team. It could have gone either way though. Gleeson, Dorotich, Heaver and (gulp) Hamill are others that I thought seriously about for the 90s team...

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

I understand your draw on that note. Wow you left out some gunners there and I was wondering about Klomp and Jones to be honest, but quickly got what you were getting at with being the best in this period of time, but hey its a tough life picking the best in the moment they played their best footy. Great thread mate. Should get some real action on this one from Nerds like me. Just feel there is a few players missing but can't put a finger on it at the moment. I'll get back to you on it.

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Bring the season on already. The wait is killing me.

Great article and well done

One area that I think the 80's side would have over the 90's is verstaility to play in more positions and I reckon teh ability to shtdown opponents e.g.

Glascott on Campo - Glascott could play a defensive role on Camp but i couldnt see it the other way

English was a centreman in his early days and could play both ends of the ground - Brown was a fwd / onballer

Pera and Earl would be a classic match-up both on the on the field and in teh bar later - Duke would win in versatility here, but Val was a winger in his earlier days for teh SAints

HArmes could play anywhere unlike Pearce

Doull and Whitnall both showed ability to play both ends of teh ground, Doull could play as a fwd and did on a few occassions

I agree with Sticks and Southby despite Geoff having teh ability to beat most foprwards on his day - plus Sticks could ruck as well

Hunter Vs Kouta match-up - no 80's player except possibly Harmes could go with Kouta - but Hunter could hold down kep positions both ends of teh ground

Hanna Vs MAylin - i would say Mil would have Shark's measure and Mil could play back, fwd or on-ball

McKay Vs Buckley - cant split

Diesel Vs Johnno - this breaks my heart but I would put Diesel ahead

I woudl have to have Dean just ahead of MAclure and both players played at both ends of teh ground

Ang Vs Buzz - hard call, evns???

McConvilel Vs Sexton - Macca i think would be too good for Sexton, Macca was a truly underrated player for teh Blues and should have played 200+ games and would ahve played in the 87 flag had he stuck around. Could play both ends of the ground no worries and swapped ends for us in the 82 GF

SOS would be allover Farmer like a cheap suit - SOS was verstaility personified

Marcou would run rings around Hoggy

Madden would have the reach but Fitzy had the nouse - could almost won 2 Norm Smith Medals for the Blues (79 & 81 GF's) - a draw here would be fitting

Bradley and Ratten were a better combo than Ashma and Sheldon but Ashman was a deceptively good mark as he was a key forward in his junior days - but Ratten could play a defnders role week in and week out but I never saw Sheldon or Ashman do this

I thiought Austin was stiff as he was one of ony 3 players to keep Hudson goaless and played well on the likes of Bartlett, Matthews etc plus ruck-roved in his earky days


Well done again - always hard to compare players from different eras, the 90's would have been fitter and more drilled in game plans that the 80's team

The legendary 80's team would show superior pace and versatility than their 90's counterparts just about any day of the week for mine - except in '95 when Kerna's boys were indeed invincible.

If comparisons like this are to be made then we can really only go on records and 3 flags in 4 years (if you're to include '79 as '80s') is something the 90's incarnation simply can't match.

football evolved a fair bit from the early 80s to the late 90s. Kernahan's side by 15 goals.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Cheers Bomba, great post. Some awesome match-ups in this game, eh? Val vs Earl might be my favourite. Kouta vs Kenny & Diesel vs Johnno would be pretty mighty too.

I very nearly put Austin in the side, but under my criteria that a player only be judged on their performances in the specified periods (in Austin's case that means 1981-1985) I couldn't fit him in. I think Curly left most of his best footy in the 70s. Having said that, his performance on Matthews in the '82 Preliminary Final alone nearly got him in. But who do you drop to bring him in? Perhaps Alvin? Or leave out Ditchburn and play Harmes or Hunter forward with Curly in defence?

By the way, the captains:

80s team - Fitzpatrick (C), Johnston (VC)
90s team - Kernahan (C), Bradley (VC)

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

ABNS - wouldn't Gleeson be more of an 80's then 90's? In reference to one of your posts above??

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

Gleeson wouldnt have played under Parkin in the 80's. i think he debuted in 86 under Walls.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Possibly could have used Hunter to replace Ditchburn, Harmes onto Kouta and then Austin onto Pearce

Nonetheless - you have justified your reasoning which is sound

I think Sticks and Braddles were a better combination that Fitzy and Johnno, Johnno worst two years wre possibly when he was the skipper (thanks to his back injury)

You got it TBB. Bear started in '86 under Walls. Gleeson was still a good footballer in the early 90s and played key roles in some big wins during that period (the Night Final vs Essendon* in '93 comes to mind). I couldn't find a spot for him though unfortunately.

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

I think where the game is played would make a difference to my prediction.....

If at Princes Park or even the 'G, I'd pick the '90s team with a reasonable degree of confidence. But if at Waverley, I'd almost change my tip because the '80s team would relish the open spaces....

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

The 80's team had teh mosquito fleet which was quick and could carry the footy and cover distances quickly

The 90's team was more clinical in its approach which was reflective of teh modern game

I would have loved to see Harmes fully fit and Kouta go head to head

I still think at either venue th 90's team would be in front, even though my heart says the 80's team

I'd love to know Parko's opinion on this 'fantasy game'...

I suspect he would back the 90s team - he talks about the '95 team with a certain awe. Also, the '90s team consists of mostly players he brought to the club (yes, he even played a part in getting Sticks & Braddles) and/or he developed, whereas the '80 team is largely made up of star players that he inherited from the Barass/Big Nick/Jezza eras (with a few exceptions). The 90s side probably has more of his stamp on it and could be closer to his heart....

But I'd love to hear him compare the teams and get his insight about the possible match-ups (eg. who from the 80s side would have gone to Kouta? how would Sticks have gone against Southby? etc)...

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

he often siad that the 90's side coached themselves, the 80's side played hard and partied harder, i think there were a few more stronger willed individuals than the 90's (or more of them - apologies to Brown Dog)

The 90's side just seemed to have a more methodical approach to the game

But he did get 2 flags from the 80's whereas he only got the one from 90's

The thing I'll always remember about that 95 side was the outstanding contested marking. Silvagni, Dean, Kouta, Sticks, Earl, Mil, Sexton, Pearce. No wonder we were hard to beat.

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#DonTheStash

Great thread .

Jees , you left some good players out of those teams . Just shows the depth we have had at times .

The 80s for me . Only by a whisker though .

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Get the facts first.
Then you can distort them at your leisure.

Always hard to pick such teams let alone compare them, which players come to mind that you think were unlucky?

The heart says the 80's side...the head says the 90's side...and I can't DEcide...it is one for 'Ask Parko' and the 1981 30 year Premiership anniversary is the perfect time to do just that.