TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Should Carlton abandon its alignment with the Bullants?

I think having our own stand alone team in the VFL goes beyond player development (although I do firmly believe that this should be one of the prime reasons to have a stand alone team).

It means staking a claim and ownership on a territory in Melbourne to call your own and where your club can have and develop a core supporter base in the future.

Collingwood has long since abandoned its heartland of the Northern Suburbs of Melbourne and has become a National Brand.

Essendon* own the Northwest of Melbourne.

Western Bulldogs own the West of Melbourne (and the benefits of this will be seen even more over the next 20 years).

Hawthorn own the Eastern Suburbs.

St. Kilda own the South East and making inroads down the Mornington Peninsula.

Geelong clearly have their own home town and the Western District.

Carlton should as a matter of urgent priority establish their own VFL team - and stake a claim in the Northern Suburbs of Melbourne - and they should take Northern Bullants with them either willingly or by forced takeover.

The team should be rebadged as the "Northern Blues" and play in Navy Blue - based at Visy Park.

Its main aims should be to act as a feeder/development team for Carlton's AFL side - and also as a community based club working closely with schools (hearts and minds), business community (sponsorship), Northern Knights (players).

Yes its Collingwood's traditional heartland - but this is one area where we should drive a wedge into as Collingwood have more and more of a national big business focus.

By branding our VFL side as the "Northern Blues" we are taking territorial ownership of this area of Melbourne and over a period of time with proper management and focus should benefit us enourmously.

This will also help us when the VFL goes down the path of a Regional Superleague concept as well which has been mooted with the State Based Champions League concept.

We need to act and act quickly as a territorial ownership of the Northern Suburbs of Melbourne will be critical in our long term survival as a club - you only have to see what has happened to North Melbourne with a weak heartland in the inner city which gives them no support in terms of members/supporter numbers.

Author:	bluekettle [ Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Should Carlton abandon its alignment with the Bullants?
Should Carlton abandon its alignment with the Bullants and field a stand-alone reserve team instead, as AFL clubs may abandon their VFL affiliates and field stand-alone reserves teams from 2012. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/a ... 5962341857 I don’t mind Carlton having its own reserved side like both Geelong and Collingwood have now.

Author:	Hotcox [ Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Should Carlton abandon its alignment with the Bullants?
With the abolishment of the 12/10 rule for next season why would we bother paying the $110,000 fee to be stand alone. The partnership from where i sit is working ok with the Bullants.

Author:	grrofunger [ Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Should Carlton abandon its alignment with the Bullants?

Author:	AGRO [ Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Should Carlton abandon its alignment with the Bullants?
I think having our own stand alone team in the VFL goes beyond player development (although I do firmly believe that this should be one of the prime reasons to have a stand alone team). It means staking a claim and ownership on a territory in Melbourne to call your own and where your club can have and develop a core supporter base in the future. Collingwood has long since abandoned its heartland of the Northern Suburbs of Melbourne and has become a National Brand. Essendon* own the Northwest of Melbourne. Western Bulldogs own the West of Melbourne (and the benefits of this will be seen even more over the next 20 years). Hawthorn own the Eastern Suburbs. St. Kilda own the South East and making inroads down the Mornington Peninsula. Geelong clearly have their own home town and the Western District. Carlton should as a matter of urgent priority establish their own VFL team - and stake a claim in the Northern Suburbs of Melbourne - and they should take Northern Bullants with them either willingly or by forced takeover. The team should be rebadged as the "Northern Blues" and play in Navy Blue - based at Visy Park. Its main aims should be to act as a feeder/development team for Carlton's AFL side - and also as a community based club working closely with schools (hearts and minds), business community (sponsorship), Northern Knights (players). Yes its Collingwood's traditional heartland - but this is one area where we should drive a wedge into as Collingwood have more and more of a national big business focus. By branding our VFL side as the "Northern Blues" we are taking territorial ownership of this area of Melbourne and over a period of time with proper management and focus should benefit us enourmously. This will also help us when the VFL goes down the path of a Regional Superleague concept as well which has been mooted with the State Based Champions League concept. We need to act and act quickly as a territorial ownership of the Northern Suburbs of Melbourne will be critical in our long term survival as a club - you only have to see what has happened to North Melbourne with a weak heartland in the inner city which gives them no support in terms of members/supporter numbers.

Author:	Stefchook [ Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Should Carlton abandon its alignment with the Bullants?
I agree with this. We've got a good supporter base, but the club should always be planning how to grow it.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	limestone [ Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Should Carlton abandon its alignment with the Bullants?
gee, you convinced me , DONE. Great to have you posting again Agro

Author:	DIAMOTISM [ Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Should Carlton abandon its alignment with the Bullants?
limestone wrote: gee, you convinced me , DONE. Great to have you posting again Agro You want to tap into the masses then you need to play games where the population of young kids are growing. Richmond are already trying to take over the Northern Suburbs by having a base out at Craigieburn. The free areas are running out. Essendon* have Bendigo, North have Ballarat, Albury/Wodonga was free but GWS are marketing hard there. Looks like we need to compete against Richmond in the Northern Suburbs. NSW people like the blues, so why don't we look at Wagga, Griffith and Narandera areas for areas of growth. Play a few games there.

Author:	JohnM [ Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Should Carlton abandon its alignment with the Bullants?
What's it worth to the Carlton brand to have the jumper being worn by the entire list, no matter whether they're playing in the AFL or the VFL? Probably a bit. What's the benefit to younger players of learning their trade playing with the Carlton VFL team, rather than the Northern Bullants. Mentally, perhaps a little bit. Would supporters much rather see our younger guys playing for Carlton, and not some red team with an ant on the jumper? Definitely. There are probably a lot of intangible benefits to playing as Carlton and not in red. I'm sure someone at the club is doing/has done a cost/benefit analysis.

Author:	bradcon [ Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Should Carlton abandon its alignment with the Bullants?
AGRO wrote: I think having our own stand alone team in the VFL goes beyond player development (although I do firmly believe that this should be one of the prime reasons to have a stand alone team). It means staking a claim and ownership on a territory in Melbourne to call your own and where your club can have and develop a core supporter base in the future. Collingwood has long since abandoned its heartland of the Northern Suburbs of Melbourne and has become a National Brand. Essendon* own the Northwest of Melbourne. Western Bulldogs own the West of Melbourne (and the benefits of this will be seen even more over the next 20 years). Hawthorn own the Eastern Suburbs. St. Kilda own the South East and making inroads down the Mornington Peninsula. Geelong clearly have their own home town and the Western District. Carlton should as a matter of urgent priority establish their own VFL team - and stake a claim in the Northern Suburbs of Melbourne - and they should take Northern Bullants with them either willingly or by forced takeover. The team should be rebadged as the "Northern Blues" and play in Navy Blue - based at Visy Park. Its main aims should be to act as a feeder/development team for Carlton's AFL side - and also as a community based club working closely with schools (hearts and minds), business community (sponsorship), Northern Knights (players). Yes its Collingwood's traditional heartland - but this is one area where we should drive a wedge into as Collingwood have more and more of a national big business focus. By branding our VFL side as the "Northern Blues" we are taking territorial ownership of this area of Melbourne and over a period of time with proper management and focus should benefit us enourmously. This will also help us when the VFL goes down the path of a Regional Superleague concept as well which has been mooted with the State Based Champions League concept. We need to act and act quickly as a territorial ownership of the Northern Suburbs of Melbourne will be critical in our long term survival as a club - you only have to see what has happened to North Melbourne with a weak heartland in the inner city which gives them no support in terms of members/supporter numbers. Hard to argue with any of that.

Author:	bondiblue [ Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Should Carlton abandon its alignment with the Bullants?
AGRO raises a really good point....onya AGRO....and his point should not be taken lightly. OK, so they've dropped the 12/10 rule for 2011, so I can drop the argument against this rule. I want all our players training and playing in Carlton gear. I want the reserves players use to passing the ball to a team mate in Navy Blue rather than red. I want the Reserves players to feel part of the Carlton Football club, not Bullants. I don't feel right/clean going to watch The Bullants. My 1st and 2nd Div VFA teams were always Sandringham and Williamstown, not Preston and the Shaw family. When I did go and watch the Blue boys in Red I found it difficult to distinguish the Carlton players. I didn't enjoy Little Red Riding Hood, and I'm not going to enjoy the Red Bluebagger. The AFL have [REDACTED] up the VFA and turning them into the VFL then aligning them with AFL clubs, the AFL have made a right royal mess of the VFA/ VFL, so I don't know why the Carlton Football Club should add to that. About time we had a stand alone reserves team again. For $110K license fee, that's peanuts when you consider we turnover $40M in revenue, with a $2.2M profit.

Author:	Hornet [ Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Should Carlton abandon its alignment with the Bullants?
We made a big mistake many years not affiliating with Bendigo. Would've had our own jumper and retained the 'Blues' - as the Bummers have done with their brand. Play a few games at Princes Park and I think most would be pretty happy about now? Personally I'd prefer that than to have our own stand alone team when you consider the promotion of our brand in central Victoria. As for our current situation... dropping the player limit next season will be great for player development but playing in red jumpers out of the northern burbs doesn't really promote the Carlton Football Club imo. I'd like to see us stand alone if it's financially viable.

Author:	muzza [ Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Should Carlton abandon its alignment with the Bullants?
Yeah, they could play in baby blue jumpers with a navy blue CFC. I am a visionary.

Author:	limestone [ Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Should Carlton abandon its alignment with the Bullants?
on the Richmond and Craigieburn agreement, if you are going to commit to stuff like this , then do it properly, like on Mchappy day at maccas last month, they had a handball competition there at craigieburn, ummmm , with Melbourne players there, WTF, means sh$t .

Author:	budzy [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Should Carlton abandon its alignment with the Bullants?
Northern Blues ey?? ./viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16421 ./viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25302

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Author:	Warby [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Should Carlton abandon its alignment with the Bullants?
Great post Aggers; and I agree with every point you've made. I desperately miss the days when our Reserves and our U19's played in the CFC guernsey. $110,000?........meh!..........make it happen.....let the kids who are the champions of tomorrow wear the CFC guernsey with pride.

Author:	AGRO [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Should Carlton abandon its alignment with the Bullants?
budzy wrote: Northern Blues ey?? ./viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16421 ./viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25302 I didnt say it was an original idea. But its a flowering good one and something I feel passionate enough about to post on. We must act and act quickly - yes Richmond have established a foothold in Craigieburn - so we can't sit on our backsides we need to act now. From Budzy's links it appears the idea has been mooted and bandied about since 2007 and perhaps Pratt and Swann were going to push it forward as their next big idea. Pratt would have been visionary enough (and rich enough) to ensure that the idea would be funded correctly. David Smorgan has seen the light and has taken Footscray down the path - as I said in my earlier post the benefits of his decision wont be seen for another generation - but I am more than certain that Western Bulldogs wont be scratching around for 50,000 + members in the year 2040.

Author:	phoenix johnson [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Should Carlton abandon its alignment with the Bullants?
Have always liked thed idea of Carlton as a stand alone team in the VFL. Means players such as the rookie players or guys who were struggling to get in the Ants 1s because of the 12/10 rule, can now have a real shot at playing the rung below Carlton and proving their worth on the list instead of being cut after 0 games and 0 opportunity. My only querie is this. If one or two or three stand alone teams come in to the VFL, surely that must mean 3 existing teams will need to fold. I'm not sure the VFL would be keen on the idea of expanding so they can fit said three teams in to the league. Thoughts?

Author:	DocSherrin III [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Should Carlton abandon its alignment with the Bullants?
phoenix johnson wrote: My only querie is this. If one or two or three stand alone teams come in to the VFL, surely that must mean 3 existing teams will need to fold. I'm not sure the VFL would be keen on the idea of expanding so they can fit said three teams in to the league. Thoughts? They don't necessarily have to fold. They could be ranked and the VFL form 2 divisions...just like in the old days. Williamstown, for instance, played in Division 2 for many years in the late 60's/70'. It could be deemed that the Northern Bullants are strong enough to stay in Division One without Carlton assistance...it could also be deemed that St.Kilda's alignment with Sandringham be shifted to Frankston and they become the Frankston Saints and play Division One. But splitting a few clubs up into Divisions could work without killing off these clubs that have been around longer than many Melbourne based AFL clubs.

Author:	Warby [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Should Carlton abandon its alignment with the Bullants?
Thanks Doc.....I must confess I'd forgotten that the VFA ( VFL) operated successfully in 2 Divisions; and it could work again.

Author:	anfield [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Should Carlton abandon its alignment with the Bullants?
I'd prefer our own reserves team but Im not that fussed about staking out our own piece of turf as such. We are arguably the 2nd biggest national brand in the game after Collingwood. Playing interstate appears to attract good support, games are sell outs, and we are one of the biggest TV drawcards. A stand alone reserves side offers alot more articulation with the senior team, more control over the youngsters, better co-ordination with training and developing a cohsive brand of football. The idea of of an association with the Northern Knights is a good one too.