TalkingCarlton :: View topic - "They have become everything that we have lost"

One area where they excel is their recruiting department and player development. They have been spot on for the past 3 to 4 years. This time last year they had regulars like Presti, Davis, Medhurst, Fraser, O'Bree and Lockyer playing weekly. If anyone would have suggested that they could win this years flag without any of these blokes playing a major part, I would have said you were nuts.

Whether we like it or not our recruitment in this same period of time has not been anywhere near as effective even though we have had higher picks.

Why, they even have a true blue supporter scouting for them. They don't mind. He has a keen eye for talent and they snapped him up when we would not give him a chance.

Why, they even have a true blue supporter scouting for them. They don't mind. He has a keen eye for talent and they snapped him up when we would not give him a chance.

Maguire's been there for 12 years now, so it's not like this thing has happened overnight.

As for the onfield comparison they were a basket case in 2005, we were still in 2007.

Took them 5 finals series in a row to make a GF and now they've reached the pinnacle. Well deserved.

Can not expect us to be in the same situation at the same time.

Whether we have the right model in place to do so is another debate that you'll find in many other threads.

preacher wrote:

Why, they even have a true blue supporter scouting for them. They don't mind. He has a keen eye for talent and they snapped him up when we would not give him a chance.

You make it sound as if Stephen was knocked back for a job he applied for. The Club wasn't hiring so there was never any job on offer. Such is Life.

Regards Cazzesman

And Mick said they had been building the team for years to this day. In other words, he had a strategic plan. Add that to his trundling out a new game plan at the critical moment and voila.

Bloody hell, I feel after Pratty took over until now, we have been well and truly back on track. We are making all the right noises/deals (except for Princes Park) and are becoming financially strong again. We have grown again. We have recruited well, including the biggest fish of all in Judd and continued to pursue all available options. We have drafted ok but who is ever going to draft 100%? We have played finals for the past 2 years and yes we didn't succeed but are certaintly showing that the way is up now! What more do you want?

2011 is a defining year, no doubt but lets let it begin before we stamp it!

Author:	darknavy [ Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:	"They have become everything that we have lost"
I heard a caller on SEN earlier at about midday today The gentleman was a passionate Carlton fan and he spoke a few home truths. He congratulated Collingwood on their win and their season and then went on to say that in the last 10 years Collingwood has become everything that Carlton has lost. he then spoke about the following (and I'm paraphrasing here -Strong -United -Relentless in the pursuit of excellence - Feared by opposition -Respected -Strong leadership -Driven by improvement -All for one/ one for all -Financially secure -Players wanting to stay -Playing for the coach and Jumper - Stars like Luke Ball wanting to come on board And guess what - I agree with him. We really have lost all those things that were once hallmarks of Carlton. We need our mojo back. It took the Pies the better part of the decade to get it all together - but they have what we want. I'm sure the powers that be want all that too but I wonder what our blueprint and vision is. As much as I love Sticks and appreciate the work that he has done FOR NO MONEY - AND FOR THE LOVE OF THE NAVY BLUE - I believe that it probably time for a visionary president who can put together a 5 -10 year plan and has the contacts and leadership nous to put it all together similar to an Eddie Everywhere. Eddie came in as a 33 year old and has built that club to a level that all clubs should aspire to in all areas. Never mind that they are the filth yada yada yada.... The bloke made the hard calls and was right most of the time - Made the hard decisions on club legends like Shaw and Bob Rose, Left Victoria Park when the writing was on the wall and built the first high performance centre in Melbourne . Invested heavily on a large coaching panel, astute recruiting and club vision and really united a rabble of a fan base. I want what they got - but in navy blue

Author:	Siegfried [ Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: "They have become everything that we have lost"
You're spot on mate, was having the same discussion today. Mcguire took over a rabble, and has turned it into a powerhouse. And the amazing thing is that in the last few years, Collingwood has done it with grace and humility...who could ever have thought we'd say that about them?! The Ratten catchcry of wanting to get the arrogance back is so 1980s out of date it's not funny. Collingwood's off-field leadership has been sensational, and has been fully responsible for what has happend on-field. We desperately need the same.

Author:	Juddy&theKruezers [ Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: "They have become everything that we have lost"
No matter who we recruit on field we will never get our act together until off field has been fixed once and for all....whilst Pratt was there we were almost on the road but since his absence we have been in Limbo....we really need the right person to take the club forward again from where we are now, which is better than where we were but a long way from where we need to be....

Author:	CK95 [ Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: "They have become everything that we have lost"
Yeah I heard that caller too. Couldn't help feeling a bit of this-flower-hurts-but-he-is-right.

Author:	aramari [ Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: "They have become everything that we have lost"
It obviously starts at the top. Professional, energetic, well-connected, well-resourced, intelligent, focussed on sustainable long-term vision, progressive, best-practice, ruthless and driven by passion. Every premiership team looks in immediate retrospect to be the model of perfection but have to give Eddie McGuire great kudos for the journey he's taken to get himself and his club to this point. Collingwood are the best club in Australian professional sport.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	SOS4PM [ Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: "They have become everything that we have lost"
You could say that about geelong for the last couple of years. Now look at them!!!

Author:	preacher [ Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: "They have become everything that we have lost"
One area where they excel is their recruiting department and player development. They have been spot on for the past 3 to 4 years. This time last year they had regulars like Presti, Davis, Medhurst, Fraser, O'Bree and Lockyer playing weekly. If anyone would have suggested that they could win this years flag without any of these blokes playing a major part, I would have said you were nuts. Whether we like it or not our recruitment in this same period of time has not been anywhere near as effective even though we have had higher picks. Why, they even have a true blue supporter scouting for them. They don't mind. He has a keen eye for talent and they snapped him up when we would not give him a chance.

Author:	aramari [ Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: "They have become everything that we have lost"
preacher wrote: One area where they excel is their recruiting department and player development. They have been spot on for the past 3 to 4 years. This time last year they had regulars like Presti, Davis, Medhurst, Fraser, O'Bree and Lockyer playing weekly. If anyone would have suggested that they could win this years flag without any of these blokes playing a major part, I would have said you were nuts. Whether we like it or not our recruitment in this same period of time has not been anywhere near as effective even though we have had higher picks. Why, they even have a true blue supporter scouting for them. They don't mind. He has a keen eye for talent and they snapped him up when we would not give him a chance. Who's that?

Author:	Blueboy74 [ Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: "They have become everything that we have lost"
Maguire's been there for 12 years now, so it's not like this thing has happened overnight. As for the onfield comparison they were a basket case in 2005, we were still in 2007. Took them 5 finals series in a row to make a GF and now they've reached the pinnacle. Well deserved. Can not expect us to be in the same situation at the same time. Whether we have the right model in place to do so is another debate that you'll find in many other threads. Not sure why I'm writing in one line sentences. Maybe channeling Blueman.

Author:	bluedog [ Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: "They have become everything that we have lost"
And they stuck to their guns (pretty much) about the clash jumper. On another note, how well does their club treat their supporters in comparison to how our club treats our supporters? Just asking. Go Blues! On and off the field. BTW, good thread, despite the fact that it probably wouldn't exist if St Kilda kicked one more point the week before.

Author:	Cazzesman [ Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: "They have become everything that we have lost"
preacher wrote: Why, they even have a true blue supporter scouting for them. They don't mind. He has a keen eye for talent and they snapped him up when we would not give him a chance. You make it sound as if Stephen was knocked back for a job he applied for. The Club wasn't hiring so there was never any job on offer. Such is Life. Regards Cazzesman

Author:	GWS [ Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: "They have become everything that we have lost"
Blueboy74 wrote: Maguire's been there for 12 years now, so it's not like this thing has happened overnight. As for the onfield comparison they were a basket case in 2005, we were still in 2007. Took them 5 finals series in a row to make a GF and now they've reached the pinnacle. Well deserved. Can not expect us to be in the same situation at the same time. Whether we have the right model in place to do so is another debate that you'll find in many other threads. Agreed. There's a lot of sudden rewriting of history going on at the moment. Congrats to Collingwood for getting to where they are but it's amazing how competent a club can look when it wins a flag. A good bounce for Milne last week and the Pies would still look a rabble. AS for the idea they've done it with "grace and humility"...

Author:	Blue Sombrero [ Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: "They have become everything that we have lost"
Doesn't matter how they've done it, with or without grace, they've done it. They were lucky Eddie had the footy show at the time. They were able to snare big sponsors in the knowledge that Eddie would shamelessly give them free weekly publicity on Australia's top rating TV show. It was a sponsor's dream. They tanked in 2005 and got Thomas and Pendlebury. But on the positive side, they went after Jolly and Ball last year and that was a master stroke. Those two were in their best on GF day Mk II and had good years to boot. They have got the most out of their mid-draft players plus jagged a couple of smokeys in O'Brien and Maxwell. And Mick said they had been building the team for years to this day. In other words, he had a strategic plan. Add that to his trundling out a new game plan at the critical moment and voila. There is no reason we can't do the same. We have the sponsors. We have the facilities. We are financially secure or will be in a year or so. We have a good list. All we need is a couple of top up players, the same on and off field desire and a game plan that will make other teams' strategies fall short. Whether we have the coaching department do do the final thing is yet to be determined but if they aren't already working on it, there's something wrong. Just get on with it.

Author:	Baggers_ [ Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: "They have become everything that we have lost"
Cazzesman wrote: preacher wrote: Why, they even have a true blue supporter scouting for them. They don't mind. He has a keen eye for talent and they snapped him up when we would not give him a chance. You make it sound as if Stephen was knocked back for a job he applied for. The Club wasn't hiring so there was never any job on offer. Such is Life. Regards Cazzesman I think the point was that they don't seem to have any issue with hiring 'the enemy' if it's the best thing for Collingwood, rather than this particular individual not getting a gig at Carlton.

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Author:	ScottSaunders [ Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: "They have become everything that we have lost"
yes, they are where we want to be, but lets see how they would go, if the AFL tried to tear them apart, prevented them from doing any deals that where benefecial to them, and reduced their capacity in the draft for a few years. whilst carlton is to blame for their demise, nor does it excuse those in the power at the time, the AFL had an almight go to remove any influence carlton once had on the AFL, and boy did they do it. I dont think there is any coincidence that collingwoods resurgence, could be paralled with carltons demise. good luck to collingwood, they saw an opportunity, and not only did the see it, but took it, and excelled on it. carlton is building, from the ground up, but we will get there, but it is interesting perspective. collingwood took 12 years to get where they are today. carlton is at around 5 years to get where they are today and coming from a hell of a lot way back than collingwood ever did. a little perspective is needed i think. i want success as much as the next bloke, but i think collingwood illustrates perfectly, it doesnt happen over night, but if you continue to improve and get better and better, it will happen.

Author:	SurreyBlue [ Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: "They have become everything that we have lost"
Bloody hell, I feel after Pratty took over until now, we have been well and truly back on track. We are making all the right noises/deals (except for Princes Park) and are becoming financially strong again. We have grown again. We have recruited well, including the biggest fish of all in Judd and continued to pursue all available options. We have drafted ok but who is ever going to draft 100%? We have played finals for the past 2 years and yes we didn't succeed but are certaintly showing that the way is up now! What more do you want? 2011 is a defining year, no doubt but lets let it begin before we stamp it!

Author:	darknavy [ Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: "They have become everything that we have lost"
Blueboy74 wrote: Maguire's been there for 12 years now, so it's not like this thing has happened overnight. As for the onfield comparison they were a basket case in 2005, we were still in 2007. Took them 5 finals series in a row to make a GF and now they've reached the pinnacle. Well deserved. Can not expect us to be in the same situation at the same time. Whether we have the right model in place to do so is another debate that you'll find in many other threads. Not sure why I'm writing in one line sentences. Maybe channeling Blueman. I agree that it took 12 years for it to happen but as an organisation they have obviously stuck to a plan and a vision that has got them to where they are today. Someone said earlier that they were a rabble in 2005, but that was just on the field with the playing group. Their recruiting team obviously identified that they needed to change personnel and got some really great talent. They were still strong off field and sticking to a plan. I agree that Pratt was on the right track and had the ability to make things happen quickly, but we are in some kind of limbo now. But I still think that we really have lost what they have gained. We are definitely better off than 5 years ago and thank goodness that Essendon* is even more shambolic.

Author:	woof [ Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: "They have become everything that we have lost"
Blue Sombrero wrote: And Mick said they had been building the team for years to this day. In other words, he had a strategic plan. Add that to his trundling out a new game plan at the critical moment and voila. This is a critical point. A coach who is secure about his future can take a long term view. We needed to take a long term view when Fev was booted out yet our first choice replacement was Bradshaw. It will be interesting to see how we treat this trade period. The talk from the club is that we need to secure a key position backman and I am happy for the club to try and trade their way into that position. Every other pick should be used to get fresh kids in.

Author:	missnaut [ Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: "They have become everything that we have lost"
SurreyBlue wrote: Bloody hell, I feel after Pratty took over until now, we have been well and truly back on track. We are making all the right noises/deals (except for Princes Park) and are becoming financially strong again. We have grown again. We have recruited well, including the biggest fish of all in Judd and continued to pursue all available options. We have drafted ok but who is ever going to draft 100%? We have played finals for the past 2 years and yes we didn't succeed but are certaintly showing that the way is up now! What more do you want? 2011 is a defining year, no doubt but lets let it begin before we stamp it! Exactly. Let's wait until this time next year before we start beating ourselves up. We also need to remember that we are coming from a very long way back compared to Collingwood. From memory many said it would take us about 10 years to recover and it's coming up to that soon. If the ball had bounced the other way last week and Tiprat had sent it through for 6 points we'd still be laughing over pictures of Eddie McGuire's face. Collingwood got out of jail last week, St Kilda could have and should have won then.

Author:	club29 [ Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: "They have become everything that we have lost"
Yep no more collingwood this ...collingwood that. It is making me sick. They have done as much as hawthorn and it took them 3 times as long and a fake GF after choking in the real one. Its all about Carlton from here on !