TalkingCarlton
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

Pies 9 Mids, Blues 8 Mids
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28883		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Virgin Blue [ Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Pies 9 Mids, Blues 8 Mids
Keep hearing commentators go on and on and on about how Pies have TWO midfields.

Well that is true, but I believe we have 2 Midfields too, though one less than Pies, and within this context it is crucial Grigg stays Blue !!

PIES

Didak
Thomas
Pendlebury
Ball
Johnson
Beams
Sidebottom
Wellingham
Swan


Blues

Judd
Murphy
Simpson
Grigg
Lucas
Scotland
Brock the Rock
Carrazzo

Possibly Yarran to replace Scotland in time, and I don't inc Hadley. I also count Shaw, Gibbs, Leon, Garlett, Betts as not midfield
Author:  Juddy&theKruezers [ Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pies 9 Mids, Blues 8 Mids
VB the pies have a great game plan that every player (of which the majority are spuds) sticks to an executes consistently....we do not and herein lies the difference....
Author:  club29 [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pies 9 Mids, Blues 8 Mids
Yep its a great system they have. Makes playing look easy. Their defenders are well protected and are made too look great and crabbing around the boundary all of a sudden looks like the way to go. They rarely concede a goal after a turn over.

Took a lot of pain for them to get where they are but looks like they are going to get there in the end.

I agree with Virg. I would like us to get more midfield depth.......... and also some more defensive setups.

Will be interesting to see which way the game evolves. Imagine once teams start replicating some of colllingwoods systems. The game will become unrecognisable.

I am hoping the interchange cap will turn back the clock a bit.
Author:  bondiblue [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pies 9 Mids, Blues 8 Mids
Virgin Blue wrote:
Keep hearing commentators go on and on and on about how Pies have TWO midfields.

Well that is true, but I believe we have 2 Midfields too, though one less than Pies, and within this context it is crucial Grigg stays Blue !!

PIES

Didak
Thomas
Pendlebury
Ball
Johnson
Beams
Sidebottom
Wellingham
Swan


Blues

Judd
Murphy
Simpson
Grigg
Lucas
Scotland
Brock the Rock
Carrazzo

Possibly Yarran to replace Scotland in time, and I don't inc Hadley. I also count Shaw, Gibbs, Leon, Garlett, Betts as not midfield


Or is it that Walker is more important for our midfield rotations?

You're a thinkin' man VB...always thinkin. Keep it up.

I think improvement with rotations should be factored as a need too.

There's more to it than just personnel.

Hadley- Brock...what's the difference?

Betts is one of our best clearance players when played in the guts...one to think about (I guess Rob Peter to pay Paul)

Robinson, Kerr, Ellard, Joseph, Houlihan.....they too should be considered for the midfield mix.
Author:  dannyboy [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pies 9 Mids, Blues 8 Mids
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
VB the pies have a great game plan that every player (of which the majority are spuds) sticks to an executes consistently....we do not and herein lies the difference....



so do we give Ratts 10 years?

as to the spuds - as a Carlton supporter - they are spuds

but in truth if they were spuds they would not be playing off in a Grand Final - but hey keep your head in that Carlton sand.
Author:  bluegirl72 [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pies 9 Mids, Blues 8 Mids
club29 wrote:
Yep its a great system they have. Makes playing look easy. Their defenders are well protected and are made too look great and crabbing around the boundary all of a sudden looks like the way to go. They rarely concede a goal after a turn over.

Took a lot of pain for them to get where they are but looks like they are going to get there in the end.

I agree with Virg. I would like us to get more midfield depth.......... and also some more defensive setups.

Will be interesting to see which way the game evolves. Imagine once teams start replicating some of colllingwoods systems. The game will become unrecognisable.

I am hoping the interchange cap will turn back the clock a bit.


It would be interesting to see what, if any effect a cap would have on the Collingwood team..and particularly Dane Swan.
Hard to know for sure without a before and after.
Author:  jimmae [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pies 9 Mids, Blues 8 Mids
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
VB the pies have a great game plan that every player (of which the majority are spuds) sticks to an executes consistently....we do not and herein lies the difference....

If by great you mean obvious and simple to break down if you play them on the counter-attack and do your film study, then yes, it's great.

They've shown heat maps of some Collingwood's 'stars'. Some of them literally hang around in the same spot on the ground for 95% of their game time, living off the hard work of others.
Author:  cimm1979 [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pies 9 Mids, Blues 8 Mids
dannyboy wrote:
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
VB the pies have a great game plan that every player (of which the majority are spuds) sticks to an executes consistently....we do not and herein lies the difference....



so do we give Ratts 10 years?

as to the spuds - as a Carlton supporter - they are spuds

but in truth if they were spuds they would not be playing off in a Grand Final - but hey keep your head in that Carlton sand.



DB, you'd have to admit the óies are well drilled and have supreme confidence in there game plan.

It helps if you have really good cattle and the pies have some good players, but I agree its more how than who.

Much like the Saints mlast year.
Author:  Virgin Blue [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pies 9 Mids, Blues 8 Mids
Pies have plenty of youth n ordinary players. But their game plan an discipline is first rate. Malthouse is the key
Author:  dannyboy [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pies 9 Mids, Blues 8 Mids
what ordinary players?

What spuds?

How are they more 'ordinary' than our players?

And I agree they are well drilled

and how long have they had the same coach for?

and their fancy training facilities?
Author:  club29 [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pies 9 Mids, Blues 8 Mids
This board would go into melt down if Carlton had to play the chip around the boundary at all costs game that collingwood have played with for the last 4 years. In fact the fact that it is now the winning formula is thowing egg in a lot of faces.

They have identified parts of the ground where if a turn over occurs a scoring opportunity for the opposiiton has a high probability of happening. They avoid these areas in attack and set up to force opposition turnovers in these spots when defending.

The big key is the way they set up when they dont have the ball. The dont allow space anywhere and almost flood their own forward fifty when defending rebound 50's. This is where the saints will struggle as they do when the dons use the same tactics.

The pies make winning a game look easy.

In time i hope we can grow into our own style and when the luck of the draw that the pies get every year falls on us we are ready to capitalise.
Author:  Rexy [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pies 9 Mids, Blues 8 Mids
club29 wrote:
This board would go into melt down if Carlton had to play the chip around the boundary at all costs game that collingwood have played with for the last 4 years. In fact the fact that it is now the winning formula is thowing egg in a lot of faces.

They have identified parts of the ground where if a turn over occurs a scoring opportunity for the opposiiton has a high probability of happening. They avoid these areas in attack and set up to force opposition turnovers in these spots when defending.

The big key is the way they set up when they dont have the ball. The dont allow space anywhere and almost flood their own forward fifty when defending rebound 50's. This is where the saints will struggle as they do when the dons use the same tactics.

The pies make winning a game look easy.

In time i hope we can grow into our own style and when the luck of the draw that the pies get every year falls on us we are ready to capitalise.


:lol: They don't always do that club and you know it so stop embellishing just for the sake of winning an argument. :razz:

I agree though we must create our own winning formula because copying what was successful last year will be futile.
Author:  99prelim [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pies 9 Mids, Blues 8 Mids
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
VB the pies have a great game plan that every player (of which the majority are spuds) sticks to an executes consistently....we do not and herein lies the difference....


Agree totally JK. Unfortunately comments like that are seen as being negative and critical by a few on this site.....esp since we're coming from a long way back
Author:  club29 [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pies 9 Mids, Blues 8 Mids
Rexy wrote:
club29 wrote:
This board would go into melt down if Carlton had to play the chip around the boundary at all costs game that collingwood have played with for the last 4 years. In fact the fact that it is now the winning formula is thowing egg in a lot of faces.

They have identified parts of the ground where if a turn over occurs a scoring opportunity for the opposiiton has a high probability of happening. They avoid these areas in attack and set up to force opposition turnovers in these spots when defending.

The big key is the way they set up when they dont have the ball. The dont allow space anywhere and almost flood their own forward fifty when defending rebound 50's. This is where the saints will struggle as they do when the dons use the same tactics.

The pies make winning a game look easy.

In time i hope we can grow into our own style and when the luck of the draw that the pies get every year falls on us we are ready to capitalise.


:lol: They don't always do that club and you know it so stop embellishing just for the sake of winning an argument. :razz:

I agree though we must create our own winning formula because copying what was successful last year will be futile.


Argument Rexy?? who with?

They do love the boundary Rex as far as i can see. Protecting the themselves from the turnover. I agree they only do this when stuck behind another teams zone . When they force an opposition turnover the dont automatically go to the wing. The charge off to goal.
Those maps of the ball movement they show on the telly seem to indicate this is what they do.

Sorry for being argumentative with ........um.....someone.
Author:  99prelim [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pies 9 Mids, Blues 8 Mids
dannyboy wrote:
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
VB the pies have a great game plan that every player (of which the majority are spuds) sticks to an executes consistently....we do not and herein lies the difference....



so do we give Ratts 10 years?

as to the spuds - as a Carlton supporter - they are spuds

but in truth if they were spuds they would not be playing off in a Grand Final - but hey keep your head in that Carlton sand.



Malthouse had another bunch of spuds playing in successive grand finals 7-8 years ago (Johnson, Shaw, Jason Cloke, Cole, Woewodin, O'Bree, Kinnear, Fraser, Holland, Lonie, Lokan, Freeborn, McKee, Steinfort, Betheras, Molloy and Walker), three years after they won the wooden spoon.
But you just keep believing that it will magically happen just because all the players will have one more year's experience. Carlton will improve incrementally while the other 15 clubs remain in a position of stasis. PLEASE DB, giving me a flowering spell
Author:  99prelim [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pies 9 Mids, Blues 8 Mids
club29 wrote:
This board would go into melt down if Carlton had to play the chip around the boundary at all costs game that collingwood have played with for the last 4 years. In fact the fact that it is now the winning formula is thowing egg in a lot of faces.

They have identified parts of the ground where if a turn over occurs a scoring opportunity for the opposiiton has a high probability of happening. They avoid these areas in attack and set up to force opposition turnovers in these spots when defending.

The big key is the way they set up when they dont have the ball. The dont allow space anywhere and almost flood their own forward fifty when defending rebound 50's. This is where the saints will struggle as they do when the dons use the same tactics.

The pies make winning a game look easy.

In time i hope we can grow into our own style and when the luck of the draw that the pies get every year falls on us we are ready to capitalise.


They don't chip it around the boundary....they actually kick and move the ball quickly around the boundary. big difference
Author:  Juddy&theKruezers [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pies 9 Mids, Blues 8 Mids
99prelim wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
VB the pies have a great game plan that every player (of which the majority are spuds) sticks to an executes consistently....we do not and herein lies the difference....



so do we give Ratts 10 years?

as to the spuds - as a Carlton supporter - they are spuds

but in truth if they were spuds they would not be playing off in a Grand Final - but hey keep your head in that Carlton sand.



Malthouse had another bunch of spuds playing in successive grand finals 7-8 years ago (Johnson, Shaw, Jason Cloke, Cole, Woewodin, O'Bree, Kinnear, Fraser, Holland, Lonie, Lokan, Freeborn, McKee, Steinfort, Betheras, Molloy and Walker), three years after they won the wooden spoon.
But you just keep believing that it will magically happen just because all the players will have one more year's experience. Carlton will improve incrementally while the other 15 clubs remain in a position of stasis. PLEASE DB, giving me a flowering spell



Just the point I was trying to make 99....whilst I agree with Ratts that there may be a hole or two in our list(there are deficiencies in most teams)....one player here or there is not where the rapid improvement will come from....it will only come from developing a system that all adhere to....identifying the strengths and weaknesses of the playing list and creating a plan of play that gets the best out of it....Tarrant Brennan Mundy blah blah blah blah....I'd like to start hearing the names of some of the off field brains that we intend to bring in to assist Ratts in getting the best out of our playing list....
Author:  cimm1979 [ Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pies 9 Mids, Blues 8 Mids
We should start with the Swan Districts coach , Brian Dawson.

I started a thread on the guy a while back.

He's not available for a about 7 games next year, but his work at Swans is nothing short of miraculous.
Plus he's got a brain the size of a planet, without being a robot.

You want player development,? you want Brian Dawson.
Author:  dannyboy [ Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pies 9 Mids, Blues 8 Mids
99prelim wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
VB the pies have a great game plan that every player (of which the majority are spuds) sticks to an executes consistently....we do not and herein lies the difference....



so do we give Ratts 10 years?

as to the spuds - as a Carlton supporter - they are spuds

but in truth if they were spuds they would not be playing off in a Grand Final - but hey keep your head in that Carlton sand.



Malthouse had another bunch of spuds playing in successive grand finals 7-8 years ago (Johnson, Shaw, Jason Cloke, Cole, Woewodin, O'Bree, Kinnear, Fraser, Holland, Lonie, Lokan, Freeborn, McKee, Steinfort, Betheras, Molloy and Walker), three years after they won the wooden spoon.
But you just keep believing that it will magically happen just because all the players will have one more year's experience. Carlton will improve incrementally while the other 15 clubs remain in a position of stasis. PLEASE DB, giving me a flowering spell



and you keep believing they have spuds and we have the talent and its all about the coach.

Lots of Collingwood people were begging for Malty to go and Bucks to be given the coaching job - but not now.

A supporter's expectations has nothing to do with reality - no matter how clever they may want to sound.
Author:  99prelim [ Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pies 9 Mids, Blues 8 Mids
"A supporter's expectation has nothing to do with reality"

Using the above argument, two thirds of coaches who have been sacked, would never have been sacked, Matthew Knights being the latest example. Supporters chewing the ears off the CEO and President day in day out play a big part in the decision making. It is a bona fide reality whether you like it or not.

In the past, Carlton supporters demanded success...and yes they could buy success....nevertheless, the powerbrokers worked assiduously at getting the success
StKila suppoorters were happy to lose by under 5 goals...and so were the StK board

DB The court of public perception/opinion has an important role to play. Yes they may not be in the inner sanctum, but don't devalue the time and effort they invest watching all the goings on at their club. They don't always get it right, but I assure you they get it right more often than not.

Bottom line is, our development rate is a concern.
Our gameplan/execution/drills is a concern
If NM and Melb improve by 50% of their 2010 in 2011, we're in trouble if our dev rate is too incremental. Every side is 3-5 years away from a wooden spoon or a flag. Right now, I don't think we're anywhere near a flag
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC + 10 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/