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| Carlton Reserves http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28871 |
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| Author: | darknavy [ Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Carlton Reserves |
Whilst I am happy for the Carlton listed players that they are playing in a GF with the Bullants on the weekend I think that it is time to seriously look at fielding our own reserves team. If you look at the premiership teams over the past decade with the exception of West Coast and Power who are affiliated with about 4 clubs each, they all had their own reserves team or at least (in the case of Hawthorn) played in their clubs colours and were called the same team name as the Seniors. Currently the two AFL clubs with what is perceived to be the deepest lists are the two clubs who field stand alone VFL teams, Collingwood and Geelong. As the cliche goes it is not your top 6 players that win you flags, it is your bottom six The past decade of premiers 2007,2009 Geelong - Geelong Reserves 2008, Hawthorn - Box Hill HAWKS (same colours and logo) 2006 WCE - players spread across numerous clubs 2005 - Sydney - Swans Reserves play in the AFL Canberra League 2004 - Port Adelaide - players spread across numerous clubs 2001, 2002,2003 Brisbane - Lion Cubs It seems that the only model that hasn't had premiership success is the affiliated VFA teams and playing in strange colours Is this coincidence or does it make a huge difference in the development of players when the AFL club can ensure that depth players are played in certain positions. I know that David Teague is paid by Carlton to a certain degree but do Ratts and the MC have a say in how and where players are played? Just wondering |
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| Author: | caulfieldrover [ Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carlton Reserves |
Please do me another little study. Where did the Pies, Geelong, St. Kilda and Dogs 2nds end up. As teams improve the seconds often drop off as teams have to release younger players to get access to the draft. As long as our squad is developing we will keep the Red squad. |
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| Author: | jimmae [ Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carlton Reserves |
I know Geelong did the double in 2007. Treble if you count the minor premiership in the AFL. 4 points shy of the quadruple. I'm more worried about Teague's influence than that of any selection issues. Those have long been thrashed out with the administration at Preston. |
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| Author: | darknavy [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carlton Reserves |
caulfieldrover wrote: Please do me another little study. Where did the Pies, Geelong, St. Kilda and Dogs 2nds end up. As teams improve the seconds often drop off as teams have to release younger players to get access to the draft. As long as our squad is developing we will keep the Red squad. Do your own study Dan. I'll stick to my ambit claim. Actually its not about where the reserves finish on the ladder but more about how the young players are developed as footballers, the jobs that they are assigned and how they are groomed. Is there any reason that Dayne Beams, Nathan Brown, Chris Dawes, Brad Dick, Brent Macaffer, John McCarthy, Scott Pendlebury, Ben Reid, Steele Sidebottom, and Sharrod Wellingham are better as an overall unit than the likes of Shaun Grigg, Paul Bower, Joe Anderson, Aron Joseph, Shaun Hampson, Lachie Henderson, Mitch Robinson, Chris Yarran and Jeff Garlett? |
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| Author: | dane [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carlton Reserves |
I'd like a reserves team. But this thread makes no sense. Who cares if the Lions or Swans won. I could be the premiership winning team on my own in those leagues. Your comments about Port and WCE mean nothing either. So really all you have is Geelong and Hawthorn. Going to have to do better! 
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| Author: | darknavy [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carlton Reserves |
No - I'm not talking about winning VFL or reserves premierships - I am saying that the clubs who control or run their own seconds team or whose seconds team play in the same colours as the AFL senior team have have gone on to win 8 out of the last 10 AFL Flags and it looks likely that will continue this year. I didn't even mention Essendon* in 2000 whose reserves are also the Bombers. |
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| Author: | maxm68 [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carlton Reserves |
darknavy wrote: I know that David Teague is paid by Carlton to a certain degree but do Ratts and the MC have a say in how and where players are played? Just wondering Surely to christ he does ?? ............ If ratten and the Carlton MC have no say in where and how our players are played I'd be very ......... very surprised 
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| Author: | DocSherrin III [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carlton Reserves |
If money were no option, we'd have our own Carlton Reserves. Money is an option and will continue to be for some time. Whilst cash is a barrier to our own team, and both parties are happy with the way things are going - the affiliation will remain. As a non-Bullants supporter, I've been surprised with the following the 'Ants have received from Carlton supporters. But there's no doubt that a Carlton reserves team playing at Visy Park would receive plenty more support. If some concrete figures and information from the AFL, VFL and Carlton were made available, I'd jump at the opportunity to conduct a feasibility study and associated recommendations on the processes, timelines and costings required to bring this to fruition. I'd be surprised if there was any backlash. At the end of the day, I don't think many people care about the Northern Bullants minus the Carlton affiliation. Pretty sure I could count them on one hand. |
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| Author: | Blue Boys [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carlton Reserves |
darknavy wrote: No - I'm not talking about winning VFL or reserves premierships - I am saying that the clubs who control or run their own seconds team or whose seconds team play in the same colours as the AFL senior team have have gone on to win 8 out of the last 10 AFL Flags and it looks likely that will continue this year. I didn't even mention Essendon* in 2000 whose reserves are also the Bombers. How about the fact that the Bullants and the Blues both start with the letter 'B', does that hold any weight? Do you honestly think that the fact that they wear the same colour jumper or they hold the same name will have a bearing on the result. I agree that where the players are positioned and how they're coached in the seconds may have a bearing, but the colour and the name of the team is insignificant. Your so called study is bull$hit. |
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| Author: | darknavy [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carlton Reserves |
Blue Boys wrote: darknavy wrote: No - I'm not talking about winning VFL or reserves premierships - I am saying that the clubs who control or run their own seconds team or whose seconds team play in the same colours as the AFL senior team have have gone on to win 8 out of the last 10 AFL Flags and it looks likely that will continue this year. I didn't even mention Essendon* in 2000 whose reserves are also the Bombers. How about the fact that the Bullants and the Blues both start with the letter 'B', does that hold any weight? Do you honestly think that the fact that they wear the same colour jumper or they hold the same name will have a bearing on the result. I agree that where the players are positioned and how they're coached in the seconds may have a bearing, but the colour and the name of the team is insignificant. Your so called study is bull$hit. Its called a casual observation - not a study numbnuts |
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| Author: | Blue Boys [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carlton Reserves |
darknavy wrote: Blue Boys wrote: darknavy wrote: No - I'm not talking about winning VFL or reserves premierships - I am saying that the clubs who control or run their own seconds team or whose seconds team play in the same colours as the AFL senior team have have gone on to win 8 out of the last 10 AFL Flags and it looks likely that will continue this year. I didn't even mention Essendon* in 2000 whose reserves are also the Bombers. How about the fact that the Bullants and the Blues both start with the letter 'B', does that hold any weight? Do you honestly think that the fact that they wear the same colour jumper or they hold the same name will have a bearing on the result. I agree that where the players are positioned and how they're coached in the seconds may have a bearing, but the colour and the name of the team is insignificant. Your so called study is bull$hit. Its called a casual observation - not a study numbnuts I assume it was a light hearted pi$$ take? my mistake then. |
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| Author: | bluechampion [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carlton Reserves |
Box Hill and the Hawks aren't different. The Hawks entered into the same sort of agreement with the Box Hill Mustangs as we did with the Northern Bullants. But the Hawks made them change their name and colours and, I think, their song. Otherwise their arrangement is almost identical to ours. |
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| Author: | darknavy [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carlton Reserves |
So the Bullants need to wear blue then or -we're flowered |
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| Author: | jimmae [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carlton Reserves |
darknavy wrote: Is there any reason that Dayne Beams, Nathan Brown, Chris Dawes, Brad Dick, Brent Macaffer, John McCarthy, Scott Pendlebury, Ben Reid, Steele Sidebottom, and Sharrod Wellingham are better as an overall unit than the likes of Shaun Grigg, Paul Bower, Joe Anderson, Aron Joseph, Shaun Hampson, Lachie Henderson, Mitch Robinson, Chris Yarran and Jeff Garlett? I've got one: about 18 months more development, on average. |
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| Author: | Hotcox [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carlton Reserves |
jimmae wrote: darknavy wrote: Is there any reason that Dayne Beams, Nathan Brown, Chris Dawes, Brad Dick, Brent Macaffer, John McCarthy, Scott Pendlebury, Ben Reid, Steele Sidebottom, and Sharrod Wellingham are better as an overall unit than the likes of Shaun Grigg, Paul Bower, Joe Anderson, Aron Joseph, Shaun Hampson, Lachie Henderson, Mitch Robinson, Chris Yarran and Jeff Garlett? I've got one: about 18 months more development, on average. Also they have had better facilities in which to train/work in, which has fast tracked there development over sides like Carlton |
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| Author: | dane [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carlton Reserves |
Hotcox wrote: jimmae wrote: darknavy wrote: Is there any reason that Dayne Beams, Nathan Brown, Chris Dawes, Brad Dick, Brent Macaffer, John McCarthy, Scott Pendlebury, Ben Reid, Steele Sidebottom, and Sharrod Wellingham are better as an overall unit than the likes of Shaun Grigg, Paul Bower, Joe Anderson, Aron Joseph, Shaun Hampson, Lachie Henderson, Mitch Robinson, Chris Yarran and Jeff Garlett? I've got one: about 18 months more development, on average. Also they have had better facilities in which to train/work in, which has fast tracked there development over sides like Carlton 2004 board. 
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| Author: | blue4 [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carlton Reserves |
DOn't understand why the AFL don't pump MILLIONS in a reserve and under 19 competition - increase lists to 60+. I like VFL but Reserves football will get more ratings on TV IMO. AFL should do more to support young talent. Keep the u18 competition but talent that deserve a run n top flight football get squeezed out due to current rules. |
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