Collingwoods average age is 25. Ours is 23.
Geelong's is 27 and they are meant to be the best. So we have four years before we will be the best. Is that an excuse?
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| The Youth Excuse is Overrated http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28481 |
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| Author: | Virgin Blue [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The Youth Excuse is Overrated |
We keep hearing how young we are, how we are 12th ?? for 100+ games in the AFL, but when you cast an eye over the teams yesterday you will see the Pies only had about 1 or maybe 2 more experienced players (btw I inc the likes of Pendlebury, Thomas, Gibbs, Murphy in this experienced category as they have played around (I think) 80-100 games). Not only that, but the Pies had their fair share of youth on display yesterday, just as we did. Point is, the whole YOUTH excuse is just that, an excuse, a cop out. And I also think the 'our list aint that good' excuse is that also, an excuse. Pies have some pretty ordinary players (who the hell is Blair, and u can't tell me Macaffer is a good player, and Ried etc), but they are well drilled in their respective roles, and fit into the overall game plan and structure that Malthouse has instilled at the club. So why isn't our team better drilled? Why are the Pies light years ahead of us, given the relative experience and talent pools on display yesterday weren't that far apart? Why don't we have set fwds to kick to? Pies had Dawes and Cloke as targets all day up fwd. They had a structure. Why didn't we have Waite and Hendo as targets? Malcolm Blight on Ch 10? (Fox replay) was going beserk when commentating saying we have no structures up fwd. It's no surprise our mids/flankers balls it up when going inside F50. They look up and there is nothing to kick to. Why can't we have an overall strong defensive game plan and presence likes Pies, Saints, Hawks? These teams suffocate teams, and have innovated defensively. Pies are so well structured and drilled at keeping the ball in their F50 - it's virtually impossible to get the ball out of their fwdline. Our Fwd 50 entries were a joke, we couldn't get the ball past wing. When we got the ball at HB we kicked it to 2 on 1s in the Pies favour. Ratten has fundamentally failed two crucial tests. 1. He doesn't been able to instill a successful defensive game plan. The better teams suffoctae you, stop you from getting out of their fwdline. We don't have anything resembling such a defensive mind set. Ratten has been there long enough to have implemented such a thing, surely. 2. He has failed to instill any form of logical fwd structure. Against Swans he had Robbo at FF and Waite and Hendo up the ground. And yesterday he had Blight going ape droppings in dismay at our lack of structure. We are falling down all over the ground, defensively and fwd. No wonder the players are not putting in, they have lost faith in what little plan we have. Pls can someone de-mystify our great game plan and structure? And don't tell me it's a Fev thing. Pies don't have a Fev or Brown on Riewoldt and they are top of table. Waite is as good as Cloke, so why didn't we play Waite fwd and have a structure to kick to? We are playing bottom 3 footy right now. Hell we were several gls behind both the wooden spoon candidates Eagles and Lions in the first half. Really though we shouldn't be too surprised. We hardly went through a long, searching process when we appointed Ratten. Time to do the honorouable thing Brett and fall on your sword and club need to finally get us a great coach. |
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| Author: | jimmae [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Youth Excuse is Overrated |
I showed last week through a statistical break down that we are physically and mentally behind teams like Collingwood, and that one of the key reasons is age and experience. 2 or 3 more young blokes will do that to you. It's not the only issue but it is an issue. Shooting from the hip really isn't your strong suit. |
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| Author: | Virgin Blue [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Youth Excuse is Overrated |
Keep the personal comments to yourself. Where are the stats ? Go take a look at us vs them yesterday, hardly any difference in experience. Certainly not enough to make us have 3 shots on goal in the first half |
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| Author: | club29 [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Youth Excuse is Overrated |
When i see 22 committed players charge out and win the clearances, not miss easy shots at goal, not misss easy passes, not pass it sideways for the sake of it, run hard both ways and tackle like they mean it and still lose by 10 goals i will be at the coaches throat big time. For now i am concerned the coaches cant get the players fired up but are more concerned that the players need a coach to fire them up. Players are getting paid well and should enjoy playing and when playing colllingwood in front of 70000 should not need anyone to talk them into it. |
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| Author: | Michael Jezz [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Youth Excuse is Overrated |
Our average age was 23.9 and games 78 this weekend. We are not that young or inexperienced.....just shithouse |
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| Author: | Virgin Blue [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Youth Excuse is Overrated |
Jimmae, instead of making little pot shots why don't you explain to me what Ratten's game plan is? Why we have no structure? Why Ratts has been there yrs now and there is no semblance of the sort of overall defensive mind set that makes teams lkke Hawks and Saints and Pies so good? |
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| Author: | Virgin Blue [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Youth Excuse is Overrated |
Michael Jezz wrote: Our average age was 23.9 and games 78 this weekend. We are not that young or inexperienced.....just shithouse Most clubs avg age is around 21-24 give or take Pies had maybe only 1 or 2 at a stretch genuinely more experienced players than us |
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| Author: | Virgin Blue [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Youth Excuse is Overrated |
club29 wrote: When i see 22 committed players charge out and win the clearances, not miss easy shots at goal, not misss easy passes, not pass it sideways for the sake of it, run hard both ways and tackle like they mean it and still lose by 10 goals i will be at the coaches throat big time. For now i am concerned the coaches cant get the players fired up but are more concerned that the players need a coach to fire them up. Players are getting paid well and should enjoy playing and when playing colllingwood in front of 70000 should not need anyone to talk them into it. 22 players don't just stop trying for 6 weeks for no reason They are dissillusioned, don't have faith in the game plan Look maybe they will bounce back like Crows, or maybe they won't But is is clear to me they are not having faith in the game plan they have been told to follow |
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| Author: | Virgin Blue [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Youth Excuse is Overrated |
jimmae wrote: I showed last week through a statistical break down that we are physically and mentally behind teams like Collingwood, and that one of the key reasons is age and experience. 2 or 3 more young blokes will do that to you. It's not the only issue but it is an issue. Shooting from the hip really isn't your strong suit. BTW I said 1 or maybe 2, not 2 or maybe 3 Go look at the players who took to field yesterday Pies had kids I hardly knew. But they have a system, game plan, structure they fit into Where is ours?? |
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| Author: | club29 [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Youth Excuse is Overrated |
Virgin Blue wrote: club29 wrote: When i see 22 committed players charge out and win the clearances, not miss easy shots at goal, not misss easy passes, not pass it sideways for the sake of it, run hard both ways and tackle like they mean it and still lose by 10 goals i will be at the coaches throat big time. For now i am concerned the coaches cant get the players fired up but are more concerned that the players need a coach to fire them up. Players are getting paid well and should enjoy playing and when playing colllingwood in front of 70000 should not need anyone to talk them into it. 22 players don't just stop trying for 6 weeks for no reason They are dissillusioned, don't have faith in the game plan Look maybe they will bounce back like Crows, or maybe they won't But is is clear to me they are not having faith in the game plan they have been told to follow If thats the case they are a pack of sooks and they should grow some balls. |
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| Author: | Virgin Blue [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Youth Excuse is Overrated |
For what it's worth I am not saying the list is brilliant, but rather the difference in playing stock yesterday shouldn't be such that the Pies are soooo far ahead of us in 2010 The lack of structure is so obvious, M Blight was virtually screaming it yesterday Why can't others see it ?? |
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| Author: | Sydney Blue [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Youth Excuse is Overrated |
You can't drill hardness you have either got it or you haven't Ratten could be the best coach in the world but if his players haven't got hardness at the ball you have no hope I felt like throwing up when I saw Leigh Brown taunting Warnock and hanging on to his jumper whilst Warnock tried to slap him away like a big girl Brown was just mocking him you know your soft when the biggest blouse over the last 8 or so becomes your best defensive forward and his hardness is missed when out We have sacrificed hardness for speed and skill??? You need your tough nuts we let Bentick Cloke Hartlett go and we don't play Wiggo Hadley and Robbo is in and out of the team We need to play a season or two of tough lock down ugly football we need to become Sydney or St kilda for a year or two play out some nil all draws |
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| Author: | Virgin Blue [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Youth Excuse is Overrated |
Club29, we have seen time and time again teams not play for their players bec they don't have faith in the game plan it is not a matter of this group all being sooks And u cant fire the whole 22 of them Look they might turn it around, but until then we won't know, and right now we are a rabble - lowest shots on goal tally til half time for CFC since 1924 I think they are saying And it is bec the structures aren't working, and the players have given up faith in the coach I am sick of hearing Ratten say it will be a bruising week on the track etc. He is starting to sound like a broken record. Maybe he should leave Waite and Hendeson up fwd so we have something to kick to when we come out of defense and attack the F50 zone. That'd be better than kicking to midgets and leaving Robbo at FF all alone like in the Swans game |
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| Author: | Virgin Blue [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Youth Excuse is Overrated |
Sydney Blue wrote: You can't drill hardness you have either got it or you haven't Ratten could be the best coach in the world but if his players haven't got hardness at the ball you have no hope I felt like throwing up when I saw Leigh Brown taunting Warnock and hanging on to his jumper whilst Warnock tried to slap him away like a big girl Brown was just mocking him you know your soft when the biggest blouse over the last 8 or so becomes your best defensive forward and his hardness is missed when out We have sacrificed hardness for speed and skill??? You need your tough nuts we let Bentick Cloke Hartlett go and we don't play Wiggo Hadley and Robbo is in and out of the team We need to play a season or two of tough lock down ugly football we need to become Sydney or St kilda for a year or two play out some nil all draws Your hanging your hat on Bentick, Cloke and Hartlett??? LOL |
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| Author: | Virgin Blue [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Youth Excuse is Overrated |
I actually think the whole coaching panel needs to be looked up Why is it you never hear any of our assistants being spoken of as a possible candidate for possible new head coach roles at other clubs? Could it be bec they are no good? Teague, Lappin, Harvey, Montgomery --- do any of these make u believe we can win a Flag one day?? One thing I can't stand is when ppl say "If u sack coach after coach you will end up like Richmond" bec what happens if all the coaches u hire are all hacks? It is possible you know. I don't think we have had a good coach for a long time |
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| Author: | Virgin Blue [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Youth Excuse is Overrated |
OK then, what about this one --- in the last couple weeks Grigg and Warnock have been our only 2 consistely good players over 2 weeks, maybe throw in JR and Simmo too Now doesn't that tell u something? ie: the guys that come in are trying but the rest of them, who have been in the team much of the year and therefore have been subjected to Ratten's pathetic structures, have given up?? Look I agree the list needs looking at (right now I would be trading Walker and Hampson for picks), not just the coaches, but surely it is obvious the bulk of the playing group have lost faith in the coach ?? Trade Walker and Hampson fpr picks around 25-35 if we are lucky, and get rid of the coach and get a coach who has better structures |
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| Author: | jimmae [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Youth Excuse is Overrated |
Virgin Blue wrote: jimmae wrote: I showed last week through a statistical break down that we are physically and mentally behind teams like Collingwood, and that one of the key reasons is age and experience. 2 or 3 more young blokes will do that to you. It's not the only issue but it is an issue. Shooting from the hip really isn't your strong suit. BTW I said 1 or maybe 2, not 2 or maybe 3 Go look at the players who took to field yesterday Pies had kids I hardly knew. But they have a system, game plan, structure they fit into Where is ours?? The Pies had only 4 players under the age of 22: Beams, Sidebottom, Blair, Reid; two first rounders, a second rounder & a rookie, so virtually all the youth was quality. 22 - 23 is around about where players start to click as they are physically read for AFL football week in, week out (presuming they were drafted at 17-19). We had 6: Yarran, Garlett, Joseph, Ellard, Henderson, Gibbs. Half our forward line, our only small defenders and a mid we expect to be a prime mover of the football. Three first rounders, three rookies. As I said the other day, you can't hide them all on the bench when they're not in the game; we've poked most of them up forward or down back but eventually the mistakes they are trying to iron out of their games impact on the rest of the team, and we know there are a few senior names who aren't exactly up to it at present. The thing you're all overlooking when you quote average ages and games is the spread of these figures. How many 100 game players; how many 23 and over with 100 games, etc. Again, I stress it isn't the be all and end all, but it is significant enough to take our confidence and self-belief down, and that loss of focus is all you need to falter at this level. |
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| Author: | DIAMOTISM [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Youth Excuse is Overrated |
Collingwoods average age is 25. Ours is 23. Geelong's is 27 and they are meant to be the best. So we have four years before we will be the best. Is that an excuse?
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| Author: | Virgin Blue [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Youth Excuse is Overrated |
Is youth the reason we kick to midgets inside F50? Is youth the reason we kick out of D50 to 2 on 1s in Pies favour? Is youth the reason Ratten played Hendo and Waite up the ground and placed Robbo to FF against Swans? On SEN today they were saying Ratten's moving waite to defense yesterday played straight into Pies' hands bec basically Ratten shat himself, loaded up down back, and reality is Pies are no.1 this year at the scrap in close - that is the hallmark of the game plan On FOX they talked about the same thing, about how we had no structure These things aren't to do with youth Waite played well in his comeback game against Saints in that great win, playing fwd he bagged 3 gls in first term Why isn't he being played there now? Where is the structure? Ratten is too defensive. Doesn't take the game on. It has little to do with youth, and more to do with lack of structure and game plans |
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| Author: | DIAMOTISM [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Youth Excuse is Overrated |
Youth is the reason why we are soft. |
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