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| Setanta - not up to it? http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28173 |
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| Author: | Virgin Blue [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Setanta - not up to it? |
he is fine when the ball comes in quick but when the midfield is under the pump he struggles. In these cases it is hard yakka for fwds and they need to make the most of half chances and I think due to his lack of understanding of the finer aspects of the game he struggles to produce in these instances. Not sure he is the answer long term. |
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| Author: | Stamos [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Setanta - not up to it? |
Firstly, the ball wasn't kicked well to him, but he had a bad night. Our forward structure wasn't good last night though. I've said in other posts, I think he needs all 3 'Helpers' (ie Betts and Garlett and Yarran) in the side, or a third true marking option. Yarran must come in next week, but if they also decide to bring in Hendo and move Waite up to the wing, that would work well and Setanta should be ok. Remember he did carve up Freo at Subi last year with 4 goals. I'd keep him in the side. As to long term, I think we need to turn Hampson into a Full Forward. Hampson FF, Hendo CHF, Waite Wing, plus Betts, Yarran, Garlett, Houlihan, Simpson, Murphy would be a formidable attacking side. |
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| Author: | sticks25 [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Setanta - not up to it? |
Stamos wrote: Firstly, the ball wasn't kicked well to him, but he had a bad night. Our forward structure wasn't good last night though. I've said in other posts, I think he needs all 3 'Helpers' (ie Betts and Garlett and Yarran) in the side, or a third true marking option. Yarran must come in next week, but if they also decide to bring in Hendo and move Waite up to the wing, that would work well and Setanta should be ok. Remember he did carve up Freo at Subi last year with 4 goals. I'd keep him in the side. As to long term, I think we need to turn Hampson into a Full Forward. Hampson FF, Hendo CHF, Waite Wing, plus Betts, Yarran, Garlett, Houlihan, Simpson, Murphy would be a formidable attacking side. I do not see either being the answer long term,Setanta has been a non-contributor for the last four games now and needs a spell, not quite sure what evident Hampson has shown he could be a successful full forward, the last player of this size to successfully play that role probably was Paul Salmon, the game has evolved alot since then, Hampson is neither a good mark or a very reliable kick two of the critical aspects to being a successful forward . |
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| Author: | club29 [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Setanta - not up to it? |
Out of form. When he is in form he is of value as a tall target. At the moment he is struggling. Having said that north didnt allow us to move the ball fast enough into areas that would allow Carlos to perform at his best. Still he had some chances last night to make a difference but sadly he couldnt. Needs a rest and week in the twos in my opinion. |
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| Author: | blueboys101 [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Setanta - not up to it? |
i hate when people say the ball wasnt kicked to him right thats why he didnt play well how about when he plays well the ball was kicked good to him and anyone could have played that day, doesnt make sense. lets be honest setanta is a battler, does some good things plays better when we have the 3 helpers has a heart as big as pharlap but he aint gonna win us a GF and has played shit for about 3 weeks so tiime to give henderson a go, but in his defence i reckon he looks tired so the break will help him alot |
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| Author: | SurreyBlue [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Setanta - not up to it? |
Waite was playing full forward & CHF last night ... how did he go covering both positions? He has no idea and when squeezed, as they did last night, he ran around like a headless chook. At the very least he could have layed a tackle !!!! I haven't seen the stats but if he has a tackle against his name, I would be asking questions.  Nothing against the big fella but ... |
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| Author: | Ytoojae [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Setanta - not up to it? |
Posted this in the Fremantle discussion where dropping Setanta is a hot part of the discussion but very much fits in this thread (obviously). I decided to take a closer look at the numbers of Setanta O'hAilpin with and without all of the three amigos playing. It surprised me at how startling the numbers were to be honest. Without counting the Hawthorn game in which Yarran was injured and missed a large part of the game. Setanta with the three amigos Vs Adelaide 8 D - 1 M - 1.0.6 - 2 T - 1 HO - 1 GC - 1 FF - 1 FA - 36 DT - 40 SC Vs Geelong 10 D - 4 M - 1.3.9 - 1 T - 1 HO - 1 GA - 2 GC - 2 I50 - 1 FF - 53 DT - 57 SC Vs Collingwood 18 D - 4 M - 5.1.31 - 2 T - 1 GA - 6 GC - 5 I50 - 3 FF - 103 DT - 114 SC Vs St Kilda 11 D - 3 M - 2.2.14 - 1 GA - 3 GC - 53 DT - 71 SC Vs Power 14 D - 4 M - 3.2.20 - 3 T - 1 GA - 4 GC - 1 FF - 83 DT - 95 SC Total 61 D - 16 M - 12.8.80 - 8 T - 2 HO - 4 GA - 16 GC - 7 I50 - 6 FF - 1 FA - 328 DT - 377 SC (5 games) Average 12.2 D - 3.2 M - 16ppg - 1.6 T - 0.40 HO - 0.80 GA - 3.20 GC - 1.2 FF - 0.2 FA - 65.6 DT - 75.4 SC Setanta when not all three are playing Vs Richmond 12 D - 7 M - 3.2.20 - 2 T - 1 GA - 4 GC - 2 FA - 78 DT - 75 SC Vs Brisbane 16 D - 8 M - 4.3.27 - 4GC - 3I50 - 1 FA - 94 DT - 85 SC Vs Essendon* 8 D - 2 M - 2.0.12 - 1GA - 3GC - 2I50 - 2 FA - 38 DT - 36 SC Vs West Coast 11 D - 5 M - 3.0.18 - 1 GA - 4 GC - 1 FF - 1 FA - 60 DT - 79 SC Vs Melbourne 12 D - 1 M - 0.1.1 - 3 T - 1 GA - 1 GC - 2 I50 - 1 FF - 2 FA - 41 DT - 40 SC Vs North Melb 4 D - 1 M - 1.1.7 - 1 T - 1 GC - 1 FA - 21 DT - 25 SC Total 63 D - 24 M - 13.7.85 - 6 T - 4 GA - 17 GC - 7I50 - 2FF - 9 FA - 332 DT - 340 SC (6 games) Average 10.5 D - 4 M - 14.167ppg - 1 T - 0.67 GA - 2.83 GC - 1.167 I50 - 0.33 FF - 1.5 FA - 55.33 DT - 56.67 SC Based solely on the DT and SC stats alone it appears that he is between 1.2 to 1.33 times the player with the three amigos than he is without. Solution -- If Betts is healthy enough to play against the Dockers then you add Yarran without subtracting Setanta from the lineup. Interesting to note that Setanta's best games (minus the Collingwood game) with the three amigos came with Jarrad Waite as the other forward option. This could indicate that Setanta's output is directly correlated to the amount of forward line defensive pressure that the team applies. This has, to me, been Setanta's greatest area of strength. Another stat worth mentioning that correlates to defensive forward pressure: With the three Amigos Setanta has a great 6-1 free kicks for differential with the three amigos while he has a polar opposite 2 frees for, 9 against when without. Clearly Setanta is a better performer with the three amigos. Add/Edit: Carlton w/ Setanta + three amigos: 4-1 (loss to a nigh on unstoppable and in form Collingwood side) .. Carlton w/ Setanta but only 2 amigos: 2-4 defeating only Melbourne (who played us fairly after the first quarter) and the Eagles in Melbourne. |
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| Author: | blueblood2345678 [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Setanta - not up to it? |
Our forward structure last night was poor. I think we're a different side going forward with all 3 amigos. It's one loss, and we'll bounce back. It's funny with the change in attitude, we win a great great game against a team higher than us and we're saying "we can win the premiership" then we have a bad loss to a lower side and it changes to "ratten should be sacked" Our boys need to go out there each week with alot more heart and alot more grunt and determination. Do that win or lose, and that will be a step in the right direction. |
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| Author: | Ytoojae [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Setanta - not up to it? |
I tend to agree with you BB. For the most part the team that goes out more determined and possessing the greater will to win is the team that is going to come through with the goods at this level of competition. When we've come against teams hungrier than us we've gotten beaten - Hawthorn and last night spring immediately to mind. However, when we're the team on the park who wants it more we're more than capable of destroying even the best teams in the competition, such as our wins against St Kilda and Geelong. |
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| Author: | Sydney Blue [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 2:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Setanta - not up to it? |
What do you mean he is not up to it Geez it takes a while for the penny to drop |
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| Author: | Ytoojae [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 2:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Setanta - not up to it? |
Sydney Blue wrote: What do you mean he is not up to it Geez it takes a while for the penny to drop He's too old to be a project forward but he's the perfect third banana ala Podsiadly for the Cats. He's done well considering that key forward is a position that the team anticipated going into the season was the position that we were going to have to improve on long term. Henderson's kicking eight goals in the reserves last week has illustrated that he is developing at about the pace we could have hoped for this season. If the club viewed Setanta as anything more than a short term solution to a long term problem (that can be remedied) I'd be amazed. The statistics that I posted prove that he's been quality in many games, particularly when the three amigos are all playing together. |
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| Author: | Virgin Blue [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Setanta - not up to it? |
It has nothing to do with little helpers, if anything the very notion of 'helpe' tells u Santy is not up to it. When the going is tough, he gets found out bec he isn't a natural and therefore cannot make the most out of fewer opportunities and half chances. |
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| Author: | Blues2005 [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Setanta - not up to it? |
The problem is that his bad games are truly awful in that he disappears altogether from any involvement in the game. He needs to somehow find ways to contribute even if he is not having a great individual game. Would it be worth throwing him into the ruck or even giving him a run in the middle at times in an attempt to get him more involved? At least this way he could give us something even if he's having a dirty night up forward. |
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| Author: | Ytoojae [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Setanta - not up to it? |
Blues2005 wrote: The problem is that his bad games are truly awful in that he disappears altogether from any involvement in the game. He needs to somehow find ways to contribute even if he is not having a great individual game. Would it be worth throwing him into the ruck or even giving him a run in the middle at times in an attempt to get him more involved? At least this way he could give us something even if he's having a dirty night up forward. Last night I would have thrown him down back and pushed T-Bird up forward. Last year throwing T-Bird was one of the things that changed the game. |
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| Author: | Mickstar [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Setanta - not up to it? |
Setanta aint a first banana.Never has been,never will be.But he could be a sensational third tall striker. Cast your mind back to Carey and Johnnie Longmire when they were running riot.Carey and Longmire set it up,and Mark 'The Fridge' Roberts would come in for the kill.Setanta is our very own 'Fridge' Roberts. |
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| Author: | Sydney Blue [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Setanta - not up to it? |
He needs the three Amigos He needs to be third banana He should have been sent down back He should have been played in the ruck His calves are hurting He is dropping his head in marking contest He needs good delivery He creates a contest He tries hard he sings the song with gusto it's all code for he is not up to it Give him back his wooden stick and send him back home he needs to realize the fun is over |
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| Author: | dannyboy [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Setanta - not up to it? |
Sydney Blue wrote: He needs the three Amigos He needs to be third banana He should have been sent down back He should have been played in the ruck His calves are hurting He is dropping his head in marking contest He needs good delivery He creates a contest He tries hard he sings the song with gusto it's all code for he is not up to it Give him back his wooden stick and send him back home he needs to realize the fun is over 
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| Author: | verbs [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Setanta - not up to it? |
dannyboy wrote: Sydney Blue wrote: He needs the three Amigos He needs to be third banana He should have been sent down back He should have been played in the ruck His calves are hurting He is dropping his head in marking contest He needs good delivery He creates a contest He tries hard he sings the song with gusto it's all code for he is not up to it Give him back his wooden stick and send him back home he needs to realize the fun is over The Irish experiment is over. Lost count of how many times I've heard that. 
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| Author: | Sydney Blue [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Setanta - not up to it? |
So I gather you two are happy with 2 kicks 2 handballs but hey geez he tries hard there is not one player on this current list with the exception of Judd that wouldn't get dropped after showing the form this blokes has recently |
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| Author: | isdonis.george [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Setanta - not up to it? |
Wonder what Sinbad's up to these days. |
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