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What makes one a mercenary? Hamill & Campo v Judd & Mclean
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Author:  Kouta [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  What makes one a mercenary? Hamill & Campo v Judd & Mclean
As Carlton fans, we've embraced players who have joined Carlton on a bigger contract and for more chances to play in flags.

Yet we have labelled former players mercenaries and traitors if they leave for greener pastures.

Specifically Hamill and Camporeale who joined a rabble and a despised rival.

A few WC fans turned on Judd, yet they conveniently ignored that Stenglein walked out on Adelaide to go home and win a flag.

Essendon* poached Prismall on dollars.

How do you differentiate between a mercenary and a player who is just looking out for his family and/or future?

I believe Mclean joined Carlton because Melbourne asked him to take a pay cut.

Yet Brock famously donated $10,000 to the Melbourne's Debt Demolition Campaign in 2008.

I get the feeling Carlton fans haven't embraced Thornton like Russell after both were looking to move on in 2006.

Form would be the reason behind this, not the fact Bret wanted to leave.

Would you be dirty on Grigg and Jacobs if they left for more opportunities and money elsewhere?

I'm not sure how I would about feel a player walking for dollars until it happened.
Author:  Belisarius [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes one a mercenary? Hamill & Campo v Judd & Mclean
Hmmm...I might have to put this into the Deep Thought "Tricky" basket and get back to you in a few million years on this one :lol:
Author:  jimmae [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes one a mercenary? Hamill & Campo v Judd & Mclean
For Campo & Hamill it came off as petty differences and cash respectively. Judd wanted to go home and take on a fresh challenge, while McLean was being given the finger by Melbourne when one could have pointed to injury as the reason for his form slump.

Looking back on it now Campo let his frustration get the better of him, even though his grievances probably held some merit.

It's part PR, part personalities; part grace, part savvy. We've seen the full circle of it post-career, where Campo is partially involved behind the scenes with Bradley and his printing company if I'm not mistaken, while maintaining a reasonable reputation as an assistant at Essendon*. Meanwhile Hamill is nowhere to be found.
Author:  gerry atric [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes one a mercenary? Hamill & Campo v Judd & Mclean
I think the go home factor is understandable and Judd had given the WCE great service. Also their were lots of good reasons to leave them at that time given the drug scandals enveloping the club. He may have wanted to get away from that culture.

Hamill I hated for leaving. In retrospect it was probably the regime to blame for paying inflated money to other players. Hamill was offered huge money by the Saints. Still, he should have been loyal and he would have been captain of Carlton, made almost as much money, and been a favourite son, instead of a player who won't ever be welcome back and who isn't really a long term saints player either.

Campo spat the dummy and he may have had some cause but he threw away a lot. Again, he won't be seen in the same light by many Blues fans because he walked out when we were in deep trouble....and for what? One injury riddled year at Essendon*. Bad move Campo.

Players who leave for money probably gain little most times. They usually aren't welcome at either club in the way a one team player is. And if you can't set up yourself for life at one club then the extra you make at the new club probably won't go far.

Brock is a different case. The Dees were happy to trade him and didn't see a future for him with Moloney and Jones ahead of him. And whn the Blues stumbled in before trade week and offered pick 11 the Dees thought they'd won tattslotto. I think they'd be very happy with Brock.
Author:  The Spornstar [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes one a mercenary? Hamill & Campo v Judd & Mclean
gerry atric wrote:
Brock is a different case. The Dees were happy to trade him and didn't see a future for him with Moloney and Jones ahead of him. And whn the Blues stumbled in before trade week and offered pick 11 the Dees thought they'd won tattslotto. I think they'd be very happy with Brock.


I keep hearing different versions of this one. The first one I heard is that Melbourne didn't want to let him go?

Re Hamill, y'know I wouldn't have begrudged him the right to make more money elsewhere. I wouldn't have been happy, but could have accepted it, especially if he had tried to broker a fair trade with St Kilda. But for him to lie and say it was due to his treatment from Elliott at the B&F (and I am the furthest thing from an Elliott apologist by the way) was purely a convenient excuse. That's why he is scum.
Author:  kingkerna [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes one a mercenary? Hamill & Campo v Judd & Mclean
simple,

Hamill - rated himself very highly on a list that had quite a few players that were better and deserved more money, he chased the big bucks and left. The money he went for would have put him in our top 3 which he wasn't

Campo - The club he loved playing for had changed dramatically, he and quite a few other players weren't all happy. So he left, I don't hold to much of a grudge, served us well and was getting past it when he left anyway. We have treated many past champions worse then Campo treated us - eg. Mconville, Marcou to name two

Judd - Wanted to go home, gave his all to the WCE including playing injured and trying to carry them through a finals series. Decided his time was up and chose between several clubs.

Mclean - The way I see it is that he saw Carlton as a club more likely to be successful and he wanted to be a part of it - opportunity arose so he took it, or his manger asked around and we obliged. I doubt that we would be paying him much more then Melbourne were.
Author:  Blueboy74 [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes one a mercenary? Hamill & Campo v Judd & Mclean
Quote:
Re Hamill, y'know I wouldn't have begrudged him the right to make more money elsewhere. I wouldn't have been happy, but could have accepted it, especially if he had tried to broker a fair trade with St Kilda. But for him to lie and say it was due to his treatment from Elliott at the B&F (and I am the furthest thing from an Elliott apologist by the way) was purely a convenient excuse. That's why he is scum.


This.

2.2mil for 4 years or 600k for 2. Come out and admit you walked for money, and you would be a hard person to blame him considering his status as a player at the time.

As for Mclean, as I metioned off-season, Moloney and fans were quick to carry on about loyalty to Melbourne, but at the same time were more than happy to get Luke Ball to the club.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/rfnews/wa ... 17043.html

Nick Stevens is another name you could throw into the argument.
Author:  Stamos [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes one a mercenary? Hamill & Campo v Judd & Mclean
Players that leave Carlton through their own volition are mercenary scum.

Players that leave their club to join Carlton are simply trying to fulfill a lifelong dream to reach the pinnacle of sporting achievement. Who could blame them. :thumbsup:
Author:  BlueMark [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes one a mercenary? Hamill & Campo v Judd & Mclean
Wasn't happy when Hamill left, but understood the reasons why, the fact hat he got better money, well good luck to him. I actually think we won on that 'deal' Hamill spent most his time at the Saints injured and rarely reached the level he had at Carlton.

Campo was well on the way out and jumped before he was pushed. Again I wasn't happy, despite the 'haters' Campo was a very good player for us for a long time and would have rather see him finish his carreer at Carlton. And good on him for craving out a further carreer as a assistant coach

Judd, he had made it clear that he wanted to leave West Coast and absouloutly delighted he chose us. His arrival at the club signalled the end of what I call the 'post revolution civil war' and the re-establishment of Carlton as a 'power' club.

McLean, just wish he can stay on the park and show what he can really do.
Author:  BlueBern [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes one a mercenary? Hamill & Campo v Judd & Mclean
I can only recall one player who's left Carlton, and gone on to play in a premiership.
Author:  woof [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes one a mercenary? Hamill & Campo v Judd & Mclean
BlueMark wrote:
I actually think we won on that 'deal' Hamill spent most his time at the Saints injured and rarely reached the level he had at Carlton.


We got Livo and Cranage, I don't think anyone had a victory.
Author:  Punter22 [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes one a mercenary? Hamill & Campo v Judd & Mclean
woof wrote:
BlueMark wrote:
I actually think we won on that 'deal' Hamill spent most his time at the Saints injured and rarely reached the level he had at Carlton.


We got Livo and Cranage, I don't think anyone had a victory.


Yeah I was going to say - Getting Livo can not be considered a win.
Author:  bondiblue [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes one a mercenary? Hamill & Campo v Judd & Mclean
BlueBern wrote:
I can only recall one player who's left Carlton, and gone on to play in a premiership.


Brent Crosswell is that man.

I'm sure there were a few in the first 50 years of our history.
Author:  TruBlueBrad [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes one a mercenary? Hamill & Campo v Judd & Mclean
bondiblue wrote:
BlueBern wrote:
I can only recall one player who's left Carlton, and gone on to play in a premiership.


Brent Crosswell is that man.

I'm sure there were a few in the first 50 years of our history.


Troy Bond
Author:  jimmae [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes one a mercenary? Hamill & Campo v Judd & Mclean
Punter22 wrote:
woof wrote:
BlueMark wrote:
I actually think we won on that 'deal' Hamill spent most his time at the Saints injured and rarely reached the level he had at Carlton.


We got Livo and Cranage, I don't think anyone had a victory.


Yeah I was going to say - Getting Livo can not be considered a win.

We did get pick 4. In theory, it was a win. :|
Author:  BlueBern [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes one a mercenary? Hamill & Campo v Judd & Mclean
TruBlueBrad wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
BlueBern wrote:
I can only recall one player who's left Carlton, and gone on to play in a premiership.


Brent Crosswell is that man.

I'm sure there were a few in the first 50 years of our history.


Troy Bond


Bond was the one who I was thinking of, but great pick up from BondiBlue!!

I'm sure the list of players who came to Carlton from other clubs to play in a premiership is much longer.
Author:  buzzaaaah [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes one a mercenary? Hamill & Campo v Judd & Mclean
I harbor no ill feelings toward Hamill.
The club stuffed up big time when they knocked back an offer from Hammill for $350k/year. By then end of the year, his stocks were higher after a great season. St Kilda came to him with a ridiculous offer. Who would turn that back?
Also remember that at that time there was brown paper bags flying left right and centre. How knows what went on between Hammill and Elliot.
St Kilda wanted hammill to put himself in the PSD. he resisted and insisted on a good deal for the Blues. We got pick 4 and a player. It's not his fault we picked 2 spuds. If we had picked Shaun Burgoyne, Daniel kerr or Kane Cornes, we would have been celebrating that deal.

Campo left because of Pagan. He also got a sweeter deal from the bombers than he deserved. He didn't pot the club ala Beaumont or the coach ala Kouta. I don't respect him for leaving but i'm not upset about it either.
Author:  TheGame [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes one a mercenary? Hamill & Campo v Judd & Mclean
If you leave us you're a traitor, if you come to us you're okay.
Author:  Blue Beatle [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes one a mercenary? Hamill & Campo v Judd & Mclean
The Spornstar wrote:
gerry atric wrote:
Brock is a different case. The Dees were happy to trade him and didn't see a future for him with Moloney and Jones ahead of him. And whn the Blues stumbled in before trade week and offered pick 11 the Dees thought they'd won tattslotto. I think they'd be very happy with Brock.


I keep hearing different versions of this one. The first one I heard is that Melbourne didn't want to let him go?

Re Hamill, y'know I wouldn't have begrudged him the right to make more money elsewhere. I wouldn't have been happy, but could have accepted it, especially if he had tried to broker a fair trade with St Kilda. But for him to lie and say it was due to his treatment from Elliott at the B&F (and I am the furthest thing from an Elliott apologist by the way) was purely a convenient excuse. That's why he is scum.


David Parkin sums it up best - he was dirty on Hamill after the way carlton looked after him. He tells how hamill would have been sent packing after one year at carlton because of his behaviour if parkin himself hadn't promised his mother that carlton would give him two years to sort himself out. (He obviously came with behaviour problems from canberra). Then don't forget how jack particularly fought to get him off the tribunal charge so that he could play in the '99 GF. He deserved the spray that he got at the B&F because he was already going and jack knew it. Sad but true - sometimes loyalty goes a long way.
And on another matter, how did St Kilda get him and gehrig under their salary cap? Brian Waldron (of Melbourne Strom salary cap rorting fame) was CEO at St Kilda at the time!!!
Author:  blueboys101 [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes one a mercenary? Hamill & Campo v Judd & Mclean
i hated hamill when he left but as i got older i can understand and probably would have done the same thing, and we got a sweet deal when i think about it, we fuked up that number 4 pick.
judd left for the go home factor, gave WCE premierships and good service and ddint leave for cash but i reckon he came to us bc we gave him the most from any vic club.
campo was just dumb and mclean had no respect from melb
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