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Should the club have persisted with Aisake?
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Author:  Captain Dan [ Sat May 22, 2010 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Should the club have persisted with Aisake?
Was thinking about this the other day. Setanta has taken a while to develop into the player he has become today, which may have meant that maybe Aisake needed a little more time in the seconds to learn the game and then await a call-up for senior selection.

From my understanding, he was delisted at the end of 2008. If we cast our minds back to 2008, neither Aisake nor Setanta were setting the world alight then. Perhaps it was just a matter of patience, as we all know the bigger men take much longer to develop...particularly if they are switching codes. I never saw much of Aisake in the Bullants, but at 201cm and 96kg, he could have featured in our team this year and played as a KPP, as they are hard to come by.

I know we shouldn't be going over the 'should haves' and 'could haves', but it is an interesting thought.

Do you think the club should have allowed Aisake a little bit longer to develop?
Author:  Crusader [ Sat May 22, 2010 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the club have persisted with Aisake?
You make it sound as though the club were the only ones that thought he'd be better off back in Ireland?

Fevola
Waite
Setanta

Kreuzer
Jacobs
Hampson
Warnock

Jamison
Bower
Thornton

Who in their right mind would want to hang around the northern suburbs, hoping to get a game ahead of that lot?

For all we know, he's probably going alright at the hurling caper back home. Everyone wins.
Author:  ryan2000 [ Sat May 22, 2010 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the club have persisted with Aisake?
He could have been anything that kid....... He was awesome to watch. But who knows what happened behind the scenes.
Author:  aboynamedsue [ Sat May 22, 2010 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the club have persisted with Aisake?
There was a lot of weird stuff floating around on TC when Aisake was cut in 2008 (mostly from posters that don't live in Melbourne and see few Bullants games). There was a lot of Ratten-blaming and even thinly veiled accusations of racism.

I saw a lot of Aisake in the Bullants and Bullants reserves in 2005-2008. He showed flashes of promise but he didn't make it. That happens. We were all looking for fairytales in that dark period, but that was one that we simply didn't get. It was a shame, but nobody carried on like that and blamed the club when Jake Edwards or Clint Benjamin didn't make it.

I was at the (in)famous VFL game in Frankston when Teague/Lappin allegedly 'lost' Aisake. I'm not pretending to know all the details, but from what I saw and heard, I don't think Teague/Lappin did much wrong.

It would have been fantastic if Aisake had of kicked on, but I think the right decision was made (for both he and the club). He was taller than Setanta but seemed to play shorter. He was tried in several different positions - including Ruck (but he was never going to make it in that position IMO), CHB, HF & FF. And for all the jumping up and down by some TCers at the time, it was interesting that no other club went for Aisake following his delisting.

I really hope he's doing well and enjoying life now, and I hope he's as thrilled as we all are at watching his big brother's recent success on the AFL stage. I'm sure he is.
Author:  Graeme [ Sat May 22, 2010 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the club have persisted with Aisake?
aboynamedsue wrote:
There was a lot of weird stuff floating around on TC when Aisake was cut in 2008 (mostly from posters that don't live in Melbourne and see few Bullants games). There was a lot of Ratten-blaming and even thinly veiled accusations of racism.

I saw a lot of Aisake in the Bullants and Bullants reserves in 2005-2008. He showed flashes of promise but he didn't make it. That happens. We were all looking for fairytales in that dark period, but that was one that we simply didn't get. It was a shame, but nobody carried on like that and blamed the club when Jake Edwards or Clint Benjamin didn't make it.

I was at the (in)famous VFL game in Frankston when Teague/Lappin allegedly 'lost' Aisake. I'm not pretending to know all the details, but from what I saw and heard, I don't think Teague/Lappin did much wrong.

It would have been fantastic if Aisake had of kicked on, but I think the right decision was made (for both he and the club). He was taller than Setanta but seemed to play shorter. He was tried in several different positions - including Ruck (but he was never going to make it in that position IMO), CHB, HF & FF. And for all the jumping up and down by some TCers at the time, it was interesting that no other club went for Aisake following his delisting.

I really hope he's doing well and enjoying life now, and I hope he's as thrilled as we all are at watching his big brother's recent success on the AFL stage. I'm sure he is.


Great post ABNS :clap: :clap:
Author:  bondiblue [ Sat May 22, 2010 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the club have persisted with Aisake?
aboynamedsue wrote:
There was a lot of weird stuff floating around on TC when Aisake was cut in 2008 (mostly from posters that don't live in Melbourne and see few Bullants games). There was a lot of Ratten-blaming and even thinly veiled accusations of racism.

I saw a lot of Aisake in the Bullants and Bullants reserves in 2005-2008. He showed flashes of promise but he didn't make it. That happens. We were all looking for fairytales in that dark period, but that was one that we simply didn't get. It was a shame, but nobody carried on like that and blamed the club when Jake Edwards or Clint Benjamin didn't make it.

I was at the (in)famous VFL game in Frankston when Teague/Lappin allegedly 'lost' Aisake. I'm not pretending to know all the details, but from what I saw and heard, I don't think Teague/Lappin did much wrong.

It would have been fantastic if Aisake had of kicked on, but I think the right decision was made (for both he and the club). He was taller than Setanta but seemed to play shorter. He was tried in several different positions - including Ruck (but he was never going to make it in that position IMO), CHB, HF & FF. And for all the jumping up and down by some TCers at the time, it was interesting that no other club went for Aisake following his delisting.

I really hope he's doing well and enjoying life now, and I hope he's as thrilled as we all are at watching his big brother's recent success on the AFL stage. I'm sure he is.


Hi abns

I was one of those intestaters who made what you may deem contentious comments about Aisake in that period. I'm sure you're implying me, because I think I was the only interstater to make serious comments about the fiasco.

But consider that I also did see quite a few Bullants games in that period too. I was coming to Melbourne very regualarly prior to this year with a keen eye as to what was coming through the ranks. After all I am a Melbournian; even today I am.
It doesn't matter where I live, what matters is how often I saw the Blues and Bullants and how much I cared to listen to information about the club and its players from people who live and breathe Carlton and live in Melbourne; lucky them.

The issues which were raised in my 'scathing' post was not based on what I thought, but what I'd been told from people I consider trustworthy and pretty good sources for CFC news. Their version of events was theres, and they thought the situation between Lappin/Teague and Aisake was a bit different to your perception of the situation. Such is life. Please consider there were times when Lappin and Teague were heard whispering loudly with their thoughts on Aisake. Yes perhaps their frustration was warranted, nevertheless, those comments were overheard and it wasn't glowing with regards to Aisake.

Perhaps you consider the development of Aisake as highly unlikely; I didn't, and many didn't.
Perhaps other teams may have thought his development was stuffed up and their was too much damage done to undo.
I don't know. But what I do know is that none of us know why the other teams didn't recruit him when we delisted him, but most of were certainly concerned by the lack of development of our kids compared to other teams', and our develpment regime was questioned, discredited, and despised by many at the time.

I still think that Aisake had upside, and that we should've persisted with him. That doesn't make me right or wrong, and same goes with you. I saw the signs of a good player potentially. I like him as a wingman or wven as a tall defender. Many others did too. Sometimes he made the game look very easu for him; that's called potential.

He's gone now. But lets remember the facts. It wasn't interstaters who were not even watching Bullants games who were making claims about the whole Aisake situation, in fact it was moreso Melburnians if you want to go back and have a look, and as for me, as what you may consider as an 'interstater', I was passing on comments Melburnians mentioned to me who did attend games I didn't attend and training sessions which I didn't attend, and supporters who know players and officials who I trust wouldn't make up stuff.

Poor old interstaters...copping it again....easy targets I guess.

abns, I do appreciate your opinion of him, and you may be right.
I do think you were a bit presumptious with your comments about interstaters though.
But I do really appreciate you posts and admire your efforts to post on Bullants games you've seen; both the ones I've seen, and this year (unfortunately) the ones I haven't.
But most importantly, I hope your team wins the flag this year without Aisake and Fevola, to prove your point (in a roundabout way) that we didn't need either of them to achieve to ultimate prize.
Keep up the good work :thumbsup:
Author:  Rexy [ Sat May 22, 2010 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the club have persisted with Aisake?
Every club has stories of players who got more opportunity than other players.
Yes it's unfair at times, but that's the way footy has been right through history.
Coaches and list managers ultimately live and die by their decisions over time, Ratts and Icke will be no different.
Author:  aboynamedsue [ Sat May 22, 2010 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the club have persisted with Aisake?
Chill out BB. You seemed to have turned much of my post into being about you or 'interstaters'.

For the record, I never said that non-Victorians (including non-Australians) can't have a valid opinion/insight. Nor is that my view. I simply observed, in reference to the specific issue of Aisake, the most provocative posts at the time came from people not based in Melbourne and non-regulars at Bullants games.

I reckon that's pretty factual (and I seem to have stuck a nerve!).

And I too thought Aisake showed some promise. I actually think the club DID persist with him. He was with us for 4 years, after all. He simply didn't make it. Our development of players was questionable for much of that 2005-2008 period, but I notice we're not still talking about Boyd, Pleming, Batson, Becker, Jackson, Flint, Benjamin, Raso etc.

Anyway, let's not look backwards.....let's focus on ruining Clarkson and Kennett's season tomorrow.... :cool:

Go Blues!!! :thumbsup:
Author:  bondiblue [ Sat May 22, 2010 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the club have persisted with Aisake?
aboynamedsue wrote:
Chill out BB. You seemed to have turned much of my post into being about you or 'interstaters'.

I seem to have stuck a nerve!.



It seems that way.
Embarassing really :oops:
But I'm chilled.

Never mind; we move forward towards our 17th and let bygones be bygones.

Gotta win tomorrow. Go Blues.
Author:  Agro jr [ Sun May 23, 2010 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the club have persisted with Aisake?
We had a super bad list during Setanta's formative years and we had scope to persist with him at the time - and now the rewards are there for both Setanta and the club.

I dont think the club could afford to persist with both Setanta and Aisake at the same time - in the first's at least.

Aisake had some magical moves and possibly could have made it - but I guess we will never know.
Author:  beowulf [ Tue May 25, 2010 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the club have persisted with Aisake?
I was another with high hopes for Aisake. Nor was I alone: the ABC commentary team LOVED him. Absolutely loved him. He could do little wrong for them.
I saw enough of him to think he was more than a little unlucky. He would have played 3 or 4 times but for something coming up at the WRONG time (like being suspended or injured).
I am not sure what went on with him re Teague and Lappin: I'll probably never know the details. However, he went from a player who was close to senior selection to a guy going through the motions. His last season just didn't have the sparkle. Had he managed a game in 2006 or 2007, he could have made it. By mid 2008 he had totally stagnated.
I'm disappointed, but he didn't get close to finding another club after he left us.

Best wishes to him. He did come back down under late last year and played at least 2 games for the Bullants.
Author:  kkk [ Wed May 26, 2010 1:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the club have persisted with Aisake?
After Sunday the question should be "Should the club have persisted with Setanta"?

...... That's a joke by the way, I love the big lug.
Author:  Blue Vain [ Wed May 26, 2010 6:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the club have persisted with Aisake?
Unfortunately you have to take your opportunities when they are presented and for a myriad of reasons, Aisake wasn't able to do that.

I recall watching Carrazzo in his first rookie season for Carlton at the bullants. I was super keen for the Blues to give him a spot but he had a very inconsistent year and was playing rubbish footy after about 15 games. He'd suffered injuries, a possible a lack of confidence and was being thrown into different roles every week. About 2 or 3 weeks before the season ended he was thrown into defence and hit top form as a rebounding defender.
Personally I believe his position on our rookie list was in jeopardy until he recaptured his form. Of course he's gone on to a B&F winner and a leader at the club. There are countless other examples.

The message is he took his opportunity when it presented itself. Some players dont get the opportunity to do so for a range of reasons. The club cant be blamed for that. It's an elite competition which requires ruthless actions.

(Unlike the Australian 20/20 captaincy apparently)
Author:  Bluey44 [ Wed May 26, 2010 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the club have persisted with Aisake?
No.
Author:  blue4 [ Thu May 27, 2010 5:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the club have persisted with Aisake?
I reckon someone like Richmond should have got him in their squad.

Prefer the sauce... would have preferred Aisake than "hi-pick" Warnock though.
Author:  carlton colt [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the club have persisted with Aisake?
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=130241
Author:  Juzzy [ Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the club have persisted with Aisake?
blue4 wrote:
I reckon someone like Richmond should have got him in their squad.

Prefer the sauce... would have preferred Aisake than "hi-pick" Warnock though.


now that's just silly.
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