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 Post subject: Filthy Lucre
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 9:29 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:29 pm
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Location: Melbourne
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/p ... -uy3z.html


The upshot of the story is that many Victorian-based AFL clubs just had a big windfall from the State Govt's pokies auction.

Bulldogs took the low-risk option and bid high for their 50+ machines, paying an average of $60,000 per machine.

Collingwood did a little of both, and bought some of their pokies at the high-end of the spectrum, and the rest for only $5,500 each.

Hawthorn scored a hundred pokie machines for the base price of $5,500.

Carlton purchased more than 260 pokie machines all at $5,500, spread across 4 venues (courtesy of Bruce Matheison). Based on estimated average returns per machine, these machines will eradicate our entire debt inside of a decade.

I hate the things myself. But you can't argue that they're an exceptionally good investment.


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 Post subject: Re: Filthy Lucre
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 9:43 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Go Blues!

I love that Richmond, Doggies and of coarse Collingwood supporters are effectively paying out our debt!

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 Post subject: Re: Filthy Lucre
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 1:55 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Location: Comparing orange boners with Hirdy
Whats stopping Bruce from shafting say, Essendon* and Collingwood, in a similar manner to Rich/WB and delivering their pokies to us? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Filthy Lucre
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 2:00 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:31 am
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Quote:
Liberal backbencher and Richmond supporter Bernie Finn told The Age: ''I think it's grossly unfair that one individual has the power to remove a major source of revenue from three AFL clubs and unilaterally direct it to just one.''


Was he speaking as a MP or Tigers fan? Inappropriate for a MP to be weighing in on a commercial transaction I would have thought. But ultimately who cares what he thinks. Is there anything illegal or improper occuring? If not, is this a Dial-a-quote by Caro looking for a Richmond viewpoint.

Why didn't she interview "Famous actor and Blues fan Vince Colosimo" on what he thought of the deal?

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 Post subject: Re: Filthy Lucre
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 2:07 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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I hate pokies.

I think they're one of many major scourges on society.

And I DO have a problem with the club IF it's being largely funded by pokies revenue.

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 Post subject: Re: Filthy Lucre
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 2:16 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:29 pm
Posts: 5913
Location: Melbourne
Unfortunately, our kids schools, our hospitals, our public transportation system, roads, water and other major infrastructure are currently being heavily funded by pokies.

It's a very broad societal issue, and would be unfair to single out a football club for relying on income from them, when the State Government is the biggest beneficiary of them all.


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 Post subject: Re: Filthy Lucre
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 2:17 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am
Posts: 4916
Rexy wrote:
I hate pokies.

I think they're one of many major scourges on society.

And I DO have a problem with the club IF it's being largely funded by pokies revenue.


I hate them as well but cigarettes are worse and our club gets nothing from those things being sold. The government gets money from both and in some way we all get a benefit from that whether you like it or not.


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 Post subject: Re: Filthy Lucre
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 3:03 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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JohnM wrote:
Unfortunately, our kids schools, our hospitals, our public transportation system, roads, water and other major infrastructure are currently being heavily funded by pokies.

It's a very broad societal issue, and would be unfair to single out a football club for relying on income from them, when the State Government is the biggest beneficiary of them all.


John, this is a thread related to Carlton and it's broadening reliance on pokies, so I don't consider it unfair to single out the club for relying on income from pokies.

Let's not deflect away from the thread topic.

Governments and others' reliance on pokies should really be debated in 'stuff', should it not?

We have 12 (or is it 13?) very well connected board members on the board and this is all they can come up with?

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 Post subject: Re: Filthy Lucre
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 3:11 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:29 pm
Posts: 5913
Location: Melbourne
Rexy wrote:
JohnM wrote:
Unfortunately, our kids schools, our hospitals, our public transportation system, roads, water and other major infrastructure are currently being heavily funded by pokies.

It's a very broad societal issue, and would be unfair to single out a football club for relying on income from them, when the State Government is the biggest beneficiary of them all.


John, this is a thread related to Carlton and it's broadening reliance on pokies, so I don't consider it unfair to single out the club for relying on income from pokies.

Let's not deflect away from the thread topic.

Governments and others' reliance on pokies should really be debated in 'stuff', should it not?

We have 12 (or is it 13?) very well connected board members on the board and this is all they can come up with?


It's not just about our club.

Collingwood, Essendon*, the Bulldogs, Melbourne, Hawthorn, St Kilda, Geelong, every Victorian club bar the Kangaroos has pokies.

Fair enough to get stuck into Carlton's board if we were an aberration here. But we're not: every club in Victoria, bar the sadly-broke Roos, are into these things. You can't sound-off against our directors without also doing so against the directors of all other Victorian AFL clubs.

The fact is, it's broader than our club. It's the entire AFL community... and Victorian society as a whole. I really don't see how you could single out Carlton for criticism when everyone's doing it.


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 Post subject: Re: Filthy Lucre
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 3:16 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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JohnM wrote:
Rexy wrote:
JohnM wrote:
Unfortunately, our kids schools, our hospitals, our public transportation system, roads, water and other major infrastructure are currently being heavily funded by pokies.

It's a very broad societal issue, and would be unfair to single out a football club for relying on income from them, when the State Government is the biggest beneficiary of them all.


John, this is a thread related to Carlton and it's broadening reliance on pokies, so I don't consider it unfair to single out the club for relying on income from pokies.

Let's not deflect away from the thread topic.

Governments and others' reliance on pokies should really be debated in 'stuff', should it not?

We have 12 (or is it 13?) very well connected board members on the board and this is all they can come up with?


It's not just about our club.

Collingwood, Essendon*, the Bulldogs, Melbourne, Hawthorn, St Kilda, Geelong, every Victorian club bar the Kangaroos has pokies.

Fair enough to get stuck into Carlton's board if we were an aberration here. But we're not: every club in Victoria, bar the sadly-broke Roos, are into these things. You can't sound-off against our directors without also doing so against the directors of all other Victorian AFL clubs.

The fact is, it's broader than our club. It's the entire AFL community... and Victorian society as a whole. I really don't see how you could single out Carlton for criticism when everyone's doing it.


Perhaps you should move this thread to TalkingAFL then.

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 Post subject: Re: Filthy Lucre
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 3:20 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:29 pm
Posts: 5913
Location: Melbourne
Or perhaps I could discuss this topic any way I like?


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 Post subject: Re: Filthy Lucre
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 3:21 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:46 am
Posts: 26223
:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Filthy Lucre
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 3:31 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:20 am
Posts: 548
Rexy wrote:
I hate pokies.

I think they're one of many major scourges on society.

And I DO have a problem with the club IF it's being largely funded by pokies revenue.



I've gotta say I hate pokies as well :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Filthy Lucre
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 4:25 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:53 am
Posts: 1194
JohnM wrote:
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/pokies-deal-sparks-afl-clubs-feud-20100512-uy3z.html


The upshot of the story is that many Victorian-based AFL clubs just had a big windfall from the State Govt's pokies auction.

Bulldogs took the low-risk option and bid high for their 50+ machines, paying an average of $60,000 per machine.

Collingwood did a little of both, and bought some of their pokies at the high-end of the spectrum, and the rest for only $5,500 each.

Hawthorn scored a hundred pokie machines for the base price of $5,500.

Carlton purchased more than 260 pokie machines all at $5,500, spread across 4 venues (courtesy of Bruce Matheison). Based on estimated average returns per machine, these machines will eradicate our entire debt inside of a decade.

I hate the things myself. But you can't argue that they're an exceptionally good investment.


This doesn't seem to make sense as $5,500 was the cost of a machine not including the necessary 10 year operating licence to operate it.

If clubs just paid $5,500 I would suggest that would be to use the new machines with existing operating licenses. It was the licences that were auctioned, machines were available to all at a fixed price of $5,500.

Absolute windfall for all purchasers and a disaster sale for the state govt. as the machine licences went at more than a $1 billion under expectations due to over supply.

ALH + Bruce Matth the biggest winners

But here is the relevant maths

Machines cost $5,500 each
10 year operating licence for the machines acheived $66k/avge ($6,600/yr) at the auction.
Average machine gross profit in Vic ATM is $96k/year, which is split 50/50 with the state govt.


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 Post subject: Re: Filthy Lucre
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 5:33 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:53 am
Posts: 1194
JohnM wrote:
Unfortunately, our kids schools, our hospitals, our public transportation system, roads, water and other major infrastructure are currently being heavily funded by pokies.

It's a very broad societal issue, and would be unfair to single out a football club for relying on income from them, when the State Government is the biggest beneficiary of them all.


The problem with this is that the pokies revenue is coming in the majority from low income earners, as most of the machines have been relocated to the outer suburbs and very few remain in the inner suburbs, where there are more entertainment options.

The govt should not be selling licences for addiction, and the machines should be confined to the casino.


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 Post subject: Re: Filthy Lucre
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 7:52 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:28 pm
Posts: 2220
Pokies are a scourge. It’s a shame that Carlton and everyone else in the AFL relies on them.

All the regulation and problem gambling schemes in the world does not disguise the fact that pokie machines represent a diversion of funds away from far more productive things that are far better for society than pokies are.

In fact the spin about regulation and problem gambling programs is really a con to disguise the truth that these things are on balance causing far more harm than good - and governments are complicit in this fraud on the population.

It is just another example of egregious vested interests capturing government policy to serve it's own narrow purposes - at the expense of everyone else.

The money spent on pokies could be going to other areas that have a far more beneficial effect on society them gambling does - such as the purchasing of goods and services that are provided or produced by Australian businesses. - there would still be plenty of tax accruing to government and far less social harms caused.

If we look at the additional taxation revenue that would accrue to government by the supporting of these things instead of just raising gambling taxes - and we also look at the costs to society as a whole - costs that government has to address across a range of services - governments are shown up to be doing nothing more than appeasing a powerful lobby group at the expense of other forms of economic activity...

Pokies might be helping sporting clubs - but they are short changing society - and governments - who have these figures and can demonstrate these things - are the organizations that acting against the interests of the majority that they are elected to represent by covering this up...

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 Post subject: Re: Filthy Lucre
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 8:05 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:46 am
Posts: 2547
Location: Melbourne
I hate the pokies as much as anyone but it's better that the profits are going to a sporting club rather than just some random investor. All pokies profits should've went to sporting organisations in the first place mandated by law.


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 Post subject: Re: Filthy Lucre
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 8:10 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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I love pokies!

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 Post subject: Re: Filthy Lucre
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 8:16 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:28 pm
Posts: 2220
It would be interesting to look at whether on balance it would be a better use of taxpayer funds to fund sporting clubs in other ways.

The idea of direct government subsidy doesnt appeal to me - although we only have to look at the government subsidy to the olympics to see that it can be effective - but the hard truth may well be that on balance this or funding through other businesses might be a better way forward.

And the other hard truth might be that by giving a cheap pokies deal to sporting clubs - the business people that run these things are really only using this in a cynical marketing exercise to legitimise their activities and entrench a pokies culture.

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 Post subject: Re: Filthy Lucre
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 9:29 am 
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Trevor Keogh

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm
Posts: 765
Personally I hate Pokies, but I am sick to death of the nanny state mentality of our governments and that of some posters on this site. I am happy that the club didn't take the so called moral high ground and made an astute investment that will provide much needed funds that is not linked with how well our team is performing.

Money from this investment will provide base load income and will give a degree of certainty to football programs that may have not been funded through normal cashflow generation. And I agree to a point that Pokies are scourge on society, but it is the volume of machines that I have a problem with, not the machine itself.

Everything is fine in moderation, with the exception of drugs and cigarettes and so I respect peoples right to eat junk food, have a drink, play the occasional game on pokies, bet on the odd horse race, pay for pleasure and swim in the nude if that's what makes them happy. We do live in a free country don't we? :confused:


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