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There was a bad Sailorman that used to frequent this site that bashed on about the need for speed

Sometimes, a veteran player's career at senior level comes to a jolting sudden holt from which they never recover... It happened to Jon Doratich after a few dodgy perormances in 1993, and it seems like T-bird might be going down the same path.

Dominator_7 wrote:

For me the most striking example of that at Carlton was the end of Michael Sexton's career at the start of 2000. He still seemed to be playing decent footy in 1999, but in 2000 a few poor performances and he was finished (although we just managed to carry him across the line for 200 games).

Diverting slightly - reports are he was not selected nor did he play for the Bullants last weekend.

Anyone got any ideas what happened?

Was he given time away to freshen up, or injured?

The defence seems to have gelled together well the last two weeks without him, so until there is a need for him again, I'd leave Thornton playing in Red...

Dominator_7 wrote:

The defence seems to have gelled together well the last two weeks without him, so until there is a need for him again, I'd leave Thornton playing in Red...

As I posted elsewhere, the defence seems to have gelled together well the last two weeks without Bower also, yet no one is suggesting Bowers career is at an end...

Other people have said it but as a defence depth player he is invaluable BUT as a forward with what we have at the moment he could well find his niche. The very little I have seen in the forward line (15 minutes last year cannot remember against who) showed a lot of promise. Add the fact that the defensive skills are already there and I genuinly believe that with a bit of hard work he could be back in the side as a forward (not the key forward) by the end of the year.

It would also give the team huge flexibility if one of the defenders is getting a bath.

I just hope that this is something that both Ratten and T-bird are throwing out there.

The Spornstar wrote:

Dominator_7 wrote:

I thought Sexton's career ended because of bad problems he could not overcome?

Author:	Virgin Blue [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:	SPEED
With the CFC clearly going down a speedy path, is there room for Thornton to come back into the side? Jamison and Bower have gone past him, and Waite is quicker than Thornton, so it;s hard to see a spot for T-Bird, unless he comes in as a fwd and replaces Henderson who isn't exactly lighting it up right now

Author:	Rexy [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SPEED
I think effective ball movement is achieved with players who more often than not instinctly go with their first option. Hesitancy, second guessing and indirect disposal kills momentum and releases pressure on the opposition. If Tbird can improve in this aspect he'll be welcome back.

Author:	Sydney Blue [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SPEED
commentators mentioned a stat about Harry O about him conceeding close to three goals a game I would love to know that stat on Thornton because i cant think of one big name scalp he has taken in his career. He will get back in just on the fact that these 190cm plus players go down like flys and the injury rate is really high There was a bad Sailorman that used to frequent this site that bashed on about the need for speed

Author:	Navy Blue Horse [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SPEED
Important that we differentiate between foot speed (overrated, see Essendon*) and ball movement.

Author:	molsey [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SPEED
Sydney Blue wrote: There was a bad Sailorman that used to frequent this site that bashed on about the need for speed By the same token I don't think anyone has recommended otherwise.

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Author:	rotten [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SPEED
Thornton - slow chip sideways and spit the dummy, they are the two things he will be remembered for. Not sure we will see too much more of him this season unless we have injury issues.

Author:	Dominator_7 [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SPEED
Sometimes, a veteran player's career at senior level comes to a jolting sudden holt from which they never recover... It happened to Jon Doratich after a few dodgy perormances in 1993, and it seems like T-bird might be going down the same path. The defence seems to have gelled together well the last two weeks without him, so until there is a need for him again, I'd leave Thornton playing in Red...

Author:	The Spornstar [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SPEED
Dominator_7 wrote: Sometimes, a veteran player's career at senior level comes to a jolting sudden holt from which they never recover... It happened to Jon Doratich after a few dodgy perormances in 1993, and it seems like T-bird might be going down the same path. For me the most striking example of that at Carlton was the end of Michael Sexton's career at the start of 2000. He still seemed to be playing decent footy in 1999, but in 2000 a few poor performances and he was finished (although we just managed to carry him across the line for 200 games).

Author:	aboynamedsue [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SPEED
I'm going in to bat for T-Bird here.... I know about the dummy spits, questionable body language, sideways chips etc, but let's not forget that this is a guy who has played basically as our #1 defender since he was 19 in a team that was at, or near, the bottom of the ladder every year until he was 25. The guy is a good footballer and has been a good servant of our club. He deserves a little respect. Having said that, I agree that he is no longer an automatic selection in our team. However, all it takes is a couple of injuries and I bet we all turn to him to help us again.... So please, let's not dance on the bloke's grave just yet.

Author:	Goltzenberg [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: SPEED
I just love how you guys jump on one of the integral players of this team so quickly, Without tbird last year, we wouldn't of done as well as we did. The amount of tough marks he took in the back line under pressure were amazing. I went to 16-17 games last year, Tbird was pretty darn good.

Author:	The Vet [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: SPEED
Diverting slightly - reports are he was not selected nor did he play for the Bullants last weekend. Anyone got any ideas what happened? Was he given time away to freshen up, or injured?

Author:	dannyboy [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: SPEED
The Spornstar wrote: Dominator_7 wrote: Sometimes, a veteran player's career at senior level comes to a jolting sudden holt from which they never recover... It happened to Jon Doratich after a few dodgy perormances in 1993, and it seems like T-bird might be going down the same path. For me the most striking example of that at Carlton was the end of Michael Sexton's career at the start of 2000. He still seemed to be playing decent footy in 1999, but in 2000 a few poor performances and he was finished (although we just managed to carry him across the line for 200 games). I thought Sexton's career ended because of bad problems he could not overcome?

Author:	molsey [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: SPEED
Foot problems I thought - Parkin alluded to a serious injury for some time before he finished up. Better example would probably be Peter Dean who struggled to keep up with it in 1997 - he even had Justin Plapp kick 5 goals on him one night. To compare to the sideways thread though, Heath Scotland could have easily become redundant this year with Grigg et al coming through. He hasn't let that happen and is in outstanding form.

Author:	Virgin Blue [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SPEED
Scotland had an injury interrupted 2009, but now he is fit he is among our most important players as he wins the hard ball in the clinches and is prolific He is miles ahead of Thornton

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Author:	sinbagger [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SPEED
The Vet wrote: Diverting slightly - reports are he was not selected nor did he play for the Bullants last weekend. Anyone got any ideas what happened? Was he given time away to freshen up, or injured? Teague says in his match report today that he was injured and a last minute withdrawl from the Bullants team.

Author:	sinbagger [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SPEED
Dominator_7 wrote: The defence seems to have gelled together well the last two weeks without him, so until there is a need for him again, I'd leave Thornton playing in Red... As I posted elsewhere, the defence seems to have gelled together well the last two weeks without Bower also, yet no one is suggesting Bowers career is at an end...

Author:	brazilbeliever [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SPEED
Other people have said it but as a defence depth player he is invaluable BUT as a forward with what we have at the moment he could well find his niche. The very little I have seen in the forward line (15 minutes last year cannot remember against who) showed a lot of promise. Add the fact that the defensive skills are already there and I genuinly believe that with a bit of hard work he could be back in the side as a forward (not the key forward) by the end of the year. It would also give the team huge flexibility if one of the defenders is getting a bath. I just hope that this is something that both Ratten and T-bird are throwing out there.

Author:	Dominator_7 [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SPEED
sinbagger wrote: Dominator_7 wrote: The defence seems to have gelled together well the last two weeks without him, so until there is a need for him again, I'd leave Thornton playing in Red... As I posted elsewhere, the defence seems to have gelled together well the last two weeks without Bower also, yet no one is suggesting Bowers career is at an end... Bower is ahead of Thornton though, but he also may not have been an automatic selection this week had Walker not gone down injured. brazilbeliever wrote: Other people have said it but as a defence depth player he is invaluable BUT as a forward with what we have at the moment he could well find his niche. The very little I have seen in the forward line (15 minutes last year cannot remember against who) showed a lot of promise. Add the fact that the defensive skills are already there and I genuinly believe that with a bit of hard work he could be back in the side as a forward (not the key forward) by the end of the year. It would also give the team huge flexibility if one of the defenders is getting a bath. I just hope that this is something that both Ratten and T-bird are throwing out there. He played up forward for a period of time in his first game for the Bullants a few weeks back, but looked way out of his depth down there...

Author:	TruBlueBrad [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SPEED
dannyboy wrote: The Spornstar wrote: Dominator_7 wrote: Sometimes, a veteran player's career at senior level comes to a jolting sudden holt from which they never recover... It happened to Jon Doratich after a few dodgy perormances in 1993, and it seems like T-bird might be going down the same path. For me the most striking example of that at Carlton was the end of Michael Sexton's career at the start of 2000. He still seemed to be playing decent footy in 1999, but in 2000 a few poor performances and he was finished (although we just managed to carry him across the line for 200 games). I thought Sexton's career ended because of bad problems he could not overcome? Was definitely injury related. Hip if memory serves. The signs were there in 1999. Was moved to a wing and Kouta to CHB for the latter part of the season. I remember Sexton himself wasn't happy about that. I still remember a game at Docklands early 2000 and Dermie saying we're probably seeing the end of Michael Sexton and sure enough the end came the next week. Peter Dean was another story. He struggled in 1998 and spent some time in the reserves, including a game at Punt Road. I still remember some lady (Carlton supporter) having a go at him, calling him a disgrace and barely containing myself. He proved them all wrong and played a great game in the last game of the season against Port. A game we won easily.

Author:	ianh [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SPEED
Tbird has cameoed up forward from time to time, occasionally looked like he might have some promise but never set the world on fire. As a third tall might be worth a go, given lack of ready-made alternatives and it does give us flexibility to send him down back if needed. At this stage though might well have lost his status as a member of the best 22.