An observation!

One major issue I have with what is going on at Visy Park is the use and development of players. When a young player arrives at a club he is met with so many different things that it can become very confusing and overwhelming. They do weights, have meetings, meet with coaches, dieticians, have recovery sessions, manager's meetings, AFLPA training, train etc etc etc.

The brain is like any other muscle and needs work. If overloaded especially under pressure, they will make mistakes and become reactive. AFL is a game played on instinct.

One point that has always confused me is the MC's need to make players into completely different players than they were. Recruiters recruit players based on a number of factors but the major one is how they perform in a game.

We have a number of players on our list that have excelled at junior level but have not stepped up. Have they not been given a chance to play in a position or role that got them to the AFL in the first place?

For example:

Anderson - Won a B&F at senior level in Darwin at 17 as a midfielder/tagger.
Austin - Wingman at Glenelg.
Browne - AA back pocket.
Davies - CHB
Gibbs - Outside midfielder
Grigg - Wing
Hadley - HFF
Henderson - CHF
Houlihan - HF
Johnson - BP
Joseph - Midfielder
Kerr - HF
Kruezer - Ruck pushing fwd.
Lucas - Wing/Midfielder
O'Keefe - HB
Setanta - Played first two years at FF. Decided not a fwd and went into ruck. Then went to defence and went okay. Now back at FF.
Robinson - Midfielder
Russell - Wing/Midfielder
Thornton - CHF
Tiller - CHF/FF
Walker - Wing
Wiggins - HBF
Yarran - HBF
Ellard - Small Forward
Garlett - Small Forward
Dare - Defender
White - Forward as a junior but also defender at senior level

If given an opportunity (such as given to Russell) in their previous position could they step up?

The picks aren't available as before and we need to get the best out of list before making any other changes.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

Austin was a wingman at Glenelg??

Joey played off the HBF for NT in the champs and acquitted himself well.

Pretty sure Browney played predominantly midfield for his Colts side but was pushed back because they had Palmer, Masten and others ahead of him

Gibbs played a fair bit off the HBF for Glenelg

Hendo played FF, CHF and CHB for Falcons.

Actually misses the point of my topic but to confirm:

Austin played his last year as a wingman for Glenelg (mostly reserves) before being drafted.
Joey play mostly HB and mid at U/18 champs and was Capt but won the B&F for Darwin seniors the same year in a slightly different role.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

How does it miss the point?? Is your point we recruited Austin as a wingman?? The games I saw him playing in he did so at FB. Browne played back pocket in the champs but through the midfield for colts if I'm not mistaken.

Browne was drafted in '07 and didn't even play in the same state side as Buddy.

I'm just not sure you can mount an argument we are developing players out of position based on the evidence you provided...how's that missing the point?

Even better!

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

I think what you are saying is that under pressure, elements of cognitive performance decline.....I'm with you.

So we should be playing players in positions they have been developed in and have performed well in during their junior careers...think I am still with you (to an extent).

I think I take issue with the accuracy of some of your examples.

Also here are some of my own observations.

* often players are thrown all over the place during their junior careers as well, example Castricum for Oakleigh is currently playing as a 194cm ruckman as they have no body taller.....even our own Dylan Buckley has been thrown back, forward and through the guts in his 2 games this year...I think junior coaches in some cases coach for the win at the expense of the lads development and AFL aspirations, or there is a general philosophy that recruiters are looking for more versatile footballers...or a bit of both

* we seem to have placed an emphasis on versatility and recruiting guys who can play in different positions.

* If you possess such a natural affinity for the game as Gibbs, you could play anywhere short of key position, whether it is utilising his best attributes is another issue.

I'm happy with this thread but I just want it noted for the record........

I'm not part of the 'We' you speakth of.

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

I have seen a lot of these guys at junior level and can remember when they were selected I was very happy as a lot of them I rated highly.

For example: Browne I thought at 36? was a steal. Robbo as well at 40. AJ as a rookie.

Mind you I really pushed for us to get Rioli ahead of Gibbs but can't complain about that one!

The major reasoning behind the question is that with GC17 and GWS coming in we really need to give these kids every opportunity to excel. The question is are we?

Sometimes we are too quick to purge and dismiss when a career breakout could be as simple as changing positions and allowing for a freedom of mind?

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

I'm not sure how these two statements line up without some more help.

I wonder what would happen if they had to go out and do a "normal" days work and then train and then play footy. These blokes are given the best of everything in order for them to succeed so stop making friggin excuses for them.

Good points made Psych. It's an overwhelming environment - even though they have been around football clubs for as long as they can remember, the pressure to perform and perform quickly based on what number they were chosen at in a draft is greater than ever before.

Growing up - my friends who were good footballers could hide in the Under-19's. Sneak a few games in the magoos throughout the year and if lucky get some senior games when in their early 20's - physically ready, comfortable with their surrounds, yet still commanding a high enough jumper number to not warrant attention in the press - small expectation from outsiders, medium expectation from within the club, large expectation from your mates who wanted your drink cards and exceedingly high expectations from the 47 girls you'd promised to take to the Brownlow when you 'made it'. No mobile phones, no e-mail, no worries.

Today the recruiters are looking at a 17 year old and imagining what they'll be like at 21. Four years is a long time when you're 17. Recruited as a pacy, creative wingman with a telling left foot in the juniors, the kid may not grow once he arrives - throwing a spanner in the works to the recruiter and coach who were counting on another couple of centimetres. Why? Because they thought he'd fill out after two pre-seasons and be a defender who could provide some drive off half-back. He's put on the muscle ok - but his aerobic capacity isn't up to AFL midfield standard...and with the added weight it's brought his pace back to the norm meaning the kid will get exposed at senior level on a wing. The kid notices it too and his confidence isn't what it used to be. He rushes his kicks - and the strengths he had at junior level (fast, creative, strong/accurate left foot) have all but disappeared. At best he's a VFL HBF providing the opposition is under 6'2".

Ok - that mightn't be the best example, but it kinda reminds me of Chris Johnson.

To counter the argument - it's often great for a young footballer to experience something different. Will it fast track their development? Probably not. Will they learn anything? Sure, but how quickly is anyone's guess. Take young Josh Donaldson. He's been told he's not a ruckman. Ok - we're happy with that - but problem is he's never really played anywhere else in junior footy. In 2010 he'll be played forward and sometimes back. As it stands, the development coaches at Carlton see him as a forward. One of his peers thinks he'll be an excellent full-back in the Dustin Fletcher mould. To think that he's been recruited to the pro's without a position already honed in some form of the game at junior level is unheard of in most sports. But using the rookie draft as some sort of experimentation I find simply fascinating and it's yet another factor that makes our game so unique.

It is not as simple as making excuses for them. It's about the kids being able to get their heads around what it takes 24/7 to become a professional AFL player. Woof think about yourself as you progressed from 18-22 yrs. Could you or did you have the desire and/or character to devote yourself to one thing 24/7 365?

It might be okay for a small percentage of kids who are considered the elite. But for the run of the mill kids who have to fight and scrap to get off a Rookie list to get a game it can be a pretty lonely and tough existance if they get an injury or struggle with form (as they all will).

For most year 1 is just a right off. They have no preseason and they might play in the VFL reserves all year with kids they don't train with. Year 2 is their 1st preseason. If they are at a strong club they probalby won't get a look in. Year 3 they are into the 2nd full preseason and if the are injured that may be a shortened preseason. The majority of kids get drafted with pre existing injuries i.e shoulders and groins due to heavy workloads when they are underdeveloped physically, so it is not as simple as just seeing their names on a list after 3 seasons and then thinking they are no good.

Unless a kid shows no aptitude at all they probably all deserve 4 to 5 years minimum.

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

This is all well and good, but we're not exactly Robinson Crusoe in trying to mould players to our needs.
Every club takes kids and tries to change some portion of their game in the name of development: whether it's their style of play, or their kicking action, adding a more balanced offensive/defensive mindset, or whatever.
It's also a full time job: diet, meetings, strategy etc, are all part of it. This is their day job. Everyone else has to be able to more than 1 thing for their job.
This is modern football: you need to play a team game, and that means fulfilling a role and playing a certain way. Obviously some people are a better fit for some roles than others, but that's all part of the development staff and the coaching staff understanding the cattle they have and the cattle they are looking to pick up.

My question is why do we seem to suck so badly at it?

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Gaga and The Hoff party hard in London

Well read and written Doc.

Agree with your points and they have expanded on mine and given more definition.

Maybe it helps when you know someone you can better undertsand their point of view!

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

This is a critical point. The pressure on these 'kids' is immense. I have no doubt at 18 I couldn't of done it.

Instead of being critical of these kids what I am putting across is that by allowing them to settle into a role that they are used to they may feel less under pressure and perform to a level we may expect. THEN once they are comfortable and used to the day to day regime THEN try them in other roles if necessary.

All kids develop at different rates and the timing of placing pressure and restrictions on them is critical.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

They are all valid points but I was coming from what these kids have at their disposal to help them succeed compared to kids coming into the game 20 years ago. They are immediately the highest paid kids in the land, they have world class facilities, they have plenty of support and they will be educated by experts in various fields. They are very lucky.
Generation Y stinks.

Amen brother

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

+2

WE could perhaps hire an expert to instruct them that it wouldn't be a bad career move to actually dive in and get the pill or maybe chase some tail sometimes. Oh, and try not to congregate stationary at all other times.

Bit new age?

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

Move Jamison to full forward because he was a FF as a junior.

Hampson should play soccer and Kreuzer should play basketball.



Whatever happened to Sam Power?