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The trade of Warnock and his playing instructions
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Author:  molsey [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:01 am ]
Post subject:  The trade of Warnock and his playing instructions
A few years ago i was based in Perth and got to see the Dockers a fair bit with work. At the time Warnock was a young ruckman under Sandilands, and rumours were floating around about his work ethic and hardness. However on the field he caught the eye of many watchers, not for his ruckwork, but for how smooth he looked with the ball - his kicking style is very non-ruckman and his kicks were generally pretty good. So he was tall and skilled, but given his relative youth the question on his ruckwork was probably delayed.

Shoot forward a few years and he has now played 4 games for Carlton. he looks to be a serviceable ruckman but bis playing instructions seem a little different - he is more noticeable on the ground tackling at a contest and seems under instruction to handball at all costs, even to someone under pressure. Anyone have any insight into this? Kreuzer is allowed to kick, and does so - is Warnock just at a lower confidence level?
Author:  brazilbeliever [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The trade of Warnock and his playing instructions
Prepared to give him a bit more time but so far fairly unimpressed with him.

How can a 206 cm guy be so useless in taking a grab? Even uncontested ... no wonder he has an ugly mug with all the balls that slip through his buttery fingers and smack him in his mong!

His tap work really needs improvement but he has real positives in getting to the contest and his 1% are top notch.

Although he has some positives his main reason for being in the team, providing a focal point and his tap work are just not on at the moment ... hopefully they will really improve with time but if they do not them we paid a massive premium for a lemon.

Jury is still out until mid year I reckon then the piper will need to be paid.
Author:  Taff [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The trade of Warnock and his playing instructions
Seems mobile enough but very poor overhead. With that reach he should be marking strongly but doesn't. I watched the replay yesterday and he seemed to spill every overhead mark he attempted.
Author:  dannyboy [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The trade of Warnock and his playing instructions
they are talking about how Sandilands marking is improving now - now! It takes time. I mean years not games. he was recruited as a long term - so um I'm thinking you'll need to give him 3 years. Like Justin Madden - he was ridiculed, booed, laughed at etc when he came to Carlton. No one was laughing by the time he left. Patience - we are building a side, which is different from having a built side.


Molsey as to the kicking, I heard a Carlton player being interviewed after the same on the weekend and he said something about he can't wait until Warnock begins to kick the ball in a gamer like he does at training - it sounded like he is an elite kick at training but hasn't yet used it on the filed. I'm guessing it will come.
Author:  DocSherrin III [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The trade of Warnock and his playing instructions
It takes a bit of time for an ungainly 206cm to put the ball onto his boot and in doing so he doesn't often raise his eyes to the targets up ahead - I'd suggest after a lengthy, lengthy layoff he's still acclimatising to the pace of the game and his role. I've seen improvement in each game, so I can't see him losing his place just yet despite Jacobs' good form in the magoos. Definitely needs a few weeks working with Kreuzer, Judd and McLean.

Same height and weight as Larry Bird. I'm expecting big things!
Author:  Michael Jezz [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The trade of Warnock and his playing instructions
Totally disagree that Warnock is a lemon.
He is a good tap ruckman
His second efforts are superb
5 tackles on the weekend
Justin Maddens first season for Carlton 1984 was very similar. You need to give him a year
It's not his fault if the coaching department doesnt let him play tall
IMO he was worth pick 24 but not sure if he was worth 24 when we have Hampson and Jacobs.
He is not confident. If his confidence builds he could be a beauty
Author:  AK43 [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The trade of Warnock and his playing instructions
Michael Jezz wrote:
It's not his fault if the coaching department doesnt let him play tall


Please explain?
Author:  JackWorrall [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The trade of Warnock and his playing instructions
Agree with Doc on this one. I thought Warnock played ok last Saturday, in particular with his second efforts including tackles and a great smother.

Well worth more patience.
Author:  dannyboy [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The trade of Warnock and his playing instructions
apparenly Ratts has asked Warnock to rove the tap outs off Judd and to spend more time on his knees.
Author:  bluehammer [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The trade of Warnock and his playing instructions
dannyboy wrote:
apparenly Ratts has asked Warnock to rove the tap outs off Judd and to spend more time on his knees.


Really?

SACK HIM!

no

SACK THEM BOTH!
Author:  Teddy Hopkins [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The trade of Warnock and his playing instructions
bluehammer wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
apparenly Ratts has asked Warnock to rove the tap outs off Judd and to spend more time on his knees.


Really?

SACK HIM!

no

SACK THEM BOTH!


Make it easy,

SACK ALL THREE !!! :lol:
Author:  jimmae [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The trade of Warnock and his playing instructions
He was holding marks fine in the pre-season so not sure exactly what's happened. Probably just feeling the pinch from the lift in tempo and needs miles in the legs. He is an extremely smooth disposer of the ball for a ruckman but the confidence in that ability doesn't seem to be there at the moment, which is leading to great looking kicks that go to no one's advantage.
Author:  camel [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The trade of Warnock and his playing instructions
dannyboy wrote:
they are talking about how Sandilands marking is improving now - now! It takes time. I mean years not games. he was recruited as a long term - so um I'm thinking you'll need to give him 3 years. Like Justin Madden - he was ridiculed, booed, laughed at etc when he came to Carlton. No one was laughing by the time he left. Patience - we are building a side, which is different from having a built side.


Agree time is needed. Especially, as Doc notes, following a long lay off.

Comparisons to Krezuer are a bit unfair as Special K is a super talent. Not too many big men like him perform as well as he has to date at such a young age. He sets a great example to Warnock of the second efforts expected from a big man, though. :thumbsup:
Author:  blueboys101 [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The trade of Warnock and his playing instructions
needs time but cat take a mark to save himself!!!
Author:  Adam Chatfield [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The trade of Warnock and his playing instructions
Certainly a better tap ruckman than Hammer and better around the ground than Jacobs.

He needs time, but he has shown enough for me to think he will be a very good player for us. I still think Hammer is trade bait for the Gold Coast.

I know people rate Hammer highly on here, but I have spoken to many opposition supporters who don't rate him at all.

I know that doesn't mean everything, but because we see players every week we can often rate them higher than where they are really at.
Author:  Adam Chatfield [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The trade of Warnock and his playing instructions
blueboys101 wrote:
needs time but cat take a mark to save himself!!!


Image
Author:  Rexy [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The trade of Warnock and his playing instructions
A 2nd round pick was fair compensation for Warnock.

Good foot skills, very willing to do the 1%ers, good engine. Great upside. :thumbsup:

Whichever ruckman we trade will have good currency.
Author:  Captain Dan [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The trade of Warnock and his playing instructions
blueboys101 wrote:
needs time but cat take a mark to save himself!!!

I think it has a lot to do with his overhead strength. He is still fairly light, and once he builds more upper body strength he should be right. It will improve in time.
Author:  gerry atric [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The trade of Warnock and his playing instructions
I think his effort has been very good, helps out when it hits the deck. I think his height and comparisons with J Madden are a little misguided. He is only 6cm taller than our other three rucks and I reckon has a disappointingly poor leap. His height advantage is nothing as good as Madden's or Sandilands. I think he will be a reasonable second ruck and that Big K is an emerging superstar, but I am not sure why we gave up two picks to address an area with minimal need. We have Big K, first ruck for next ten years, Jacobs whose tapwork, marking and strength I think is ahead of Warnock at the moment, and Hammo who we used a PP on, at the time we judged him as better than Tippett and Renouf, and who is super athletic. You probably need three ruckmen on your list and maybe another guy who can ruck in emergencies or who is very young. I just wonder whether the draft choices and I think 4 yr contract to Warnock is over the odds and whether he is ahead of jacobs who I think is younger and whether his recruitment indicates that the MC don't have confidence in Hammo's development. Warnock has certainly competed hard but I don't think he will be a star and the way the game is going unless you can absolutely dominate the hitouts then you need to be a real athletic ruckamn which Big K and Hammo are.

I know Hammo is injured at the moment but having 4 good rucks and no genuine key forwards is not good balance for the list.
I hope we didn't recruit him on the principle that Harry was a good ruckman 20 years ago and he was tall, ergo....

I have liked Warnock's effort, disappointed in his leap and overhead marking, just puzzled why we went so hard to chase a third second ruckman to support Big K when we have other more pressing needs to address, like an elite running kick out of defence and a few key forwards.

This week will be a good test. Blake looked to dominate the hitouts for the Cats, and I don't reckon he is a great ruckman. He is the sort of tall low possession ruckman that I'd want Warnock to be beating, so big challenge this week.
Author:  Kouta [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The trade of Warnock and his playing instructions
blueboys101 wrote:
needs time but cat take a mark to save himself!!!

Warnock has taken as many overhead marks as Kreuzer this year. :sly:

Jimmae hit the mark with the comment that he lacks leg strength and fitness after missing most of the pre-season.

I'm a fan of the little things that go unnoticed.

Such as Warnock getting stuck into the Adelaide players at three quarter time and mouthing off at them. :thumbsup:

Their rucks ran around in a skirt for four quarters.
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