Donstuie wrote:
Doesn't matter, because we got them both. Case closed.
I knew I'd get that response with that headline
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| McLean vs Lucas http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27817 |
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| Author: | aramari [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | McLean vs Lucas |
I'm very impressed and a bit surprised at Kane Lucas' adjustment to AFL level, looks a class player that will make a big difference to the team for a long time. I've liked Brock's work in a couple of games this year, but he keeps breaking down and his pace will be exposed more and more the way the game is going. Looks to have the body of a 34 y.o. not 24. If he was fit and an elite user of the ball I'd be more comfortable but he's pretty blue-collar. He might end up being a star for us, but the risks are high that he won't, or that his career will be cut short by injuries and lack of mobility. Watching Lucas (and a bunch of 09 draftees) thrive makes me wonder who we'd have taken if we had 11 AND 12 to use last year. Look at it this way, we traded 11 for McLean, and we rated Lucas higher than 12. Therefore we effectively traded McLean for Lucas (without knowing Lucas would slip, granted) and only got Lucas thanks to a successful last minute trade. I can't help but think we may have blown it by trading pick 11 for a grunt player when Hawks Kennedy and McGlynn went to Sydney for 39, 46, 70. Either player would have cost us a 3rd round pick (McGlynn has been exceptional but I'm looking at clearance mids) and Kennedy is three years younger and sound physically (though not overly accomplished yet). A similar player in Luke Ball was taken at pick 30. The circumstances of the McLean trade have been criticised, but imagine if we'd taken both Lucas and the next best rated player (Dees took Gysberts but it might have been Jetta, Pittard, Tapscott, Bastinac etc). I know this is hand-wringing in hindsight, but pick 11 for McLean when the next 2 drafts will give us no top rated talent seems a real over-reach for need. |
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| Author: | Donstuie [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: McLean vs Lucas |
Doesn't matter, because we got them both. Case closed. |
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| Author: | jimmae [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: McLean vs Lucas |
He's played in 2.5 games for Carlton. Go easy, and don't forget that we were #1 in clearances coming into the round, in no small part thanks to his efforts. |
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| Author: | aramari [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: McLean vs Lucas |
Donstuie wrote: Doesn't matter, because we got them both. Case closed. I knew I'd get that response with that headline
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| Author: | bondiblue [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: McLean vs Lucas |
I reckon you're onto something aramari. Sure Brock has done well in the first 2 rounds...lets hope that he does that for 80% of the season, because the MC obviously didn't get him in in case Hadley is unavailable through injury like he was for the final against Brizzy last year. Great game by Lucas. Locked in the 22 for now it seems. Pressure for spots....all good. |
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| Author: | Kouta [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: McLean vs Lucas |
'snip' What if we had drafted Tippett and Petterd instead of Hampson and Grigg?  Mclean was brilliant against Brisbane's alleged premiership midfield. 'snip' We're getting Buckley in the 2011 draft. Who cares about draft picks? We can trade a player/s to get back into the draft. Show me a link where Kennedy and McGlynn stated that theywanted to join Carlton. Carlton supporters.  Essendon* might regret overlooking Ball after Watson burns out because he doesn't have a Mclean for company. Judd will kill it with Mclean playing inside and firing out his handpasses. 
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| Author: | bondiblue [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: McLean vs Lucas |
I know nothing about aramari. I know Lucas did really well this week...really well...and is a kid....and we won I know that McLean didn't play this week...and we didn't miss him....and we won Now that is not to say we are a better team with all those missing this week (Waite, Bower, Thornton, Hampson, McLean, Austin....), but I am still going to wait till the end of the season to evaluate McLean. At this stage...he goes allright....but I did expect more. That's just me though.I'm known to be wrong. |
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| Author: | Rexy [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: McLean vs Lucas |
[quote="Kouta"'snip' What if we had drafted Tippett and Petterd instead of Hampson and Grigg? Mclean was brilliant against Brisbane's alleged premiership midfield. 'snip' We're getting Buckley in the 2011 draft. Who cares about draft picks? We can trade a player/s to get back into the draft. Show me a link where Kennedy and McGlynn stated that theywanted to join Carlton. Carlton supporters. Essendon* might regret overlooking Ball after Watson burns out because he doesn't have a Mclean for company. Judd will kill it with Mclean playing inside and firing out his handpasses. [/quote]Maybe you could use the foe button a bit more or perhaps take a self imposed break from TC like Donstuie to relax a bit. A very angry person you seem to be. Back on topic, I think McLeans first 2 games were worthy of the trade. Any ongoing injuries will be a concern now. Should get 4-5 years good service with our excellent conditioning staff. |
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| Author: | Juddy&theKruezers [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: McLean vs Lucas |
I reckon the title should read Mclean AND Lucas and not versus...both bring something different to the table and we are yet to see Mclean and Judd in the middle together....I'm looking forward to that.. |
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| Author: | aramari [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: McLean vs Lucas |
Kouta wrote: snip' What if we had drafted Tippett and Petterd instead of Hampson and Grigg? Mclean was brilliant against Brisbane's alleged premiership midfield. 'snip' We're getting Buckley in the 2011 draft. Who cares about draft picks? We can trade a player/s to get back into the draft. Show me a link where Kennedy and McGlynn stated that theywanted to join Carlton. Carlton supporters.  "Who cares about draft picks?" - channeling Elliott and Parkin circa 1999? That worked out for the best  Wasn't saying we should have made any particular trade - just pointing out that good players were traded for 3rd round picks, and pick 11 is a high price. If Brock plays 150 games for CFC finishes consistently high in B&Fs and helps us win a flag I'd be delighted. Surprised but delighted. Where did I "bash" McLean?  I have a general preference for recruiting elite young players over mid-aged slow players with crook bodies and without top-shelf skills. I wrote a positive post after Brock's good game in Brisbane and wish him well at Carlton. And "'snip'"? tsk tsk. Play the ball, not the man, man. |
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| Author: | kingkerna [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: McLean vs Lucas |
 Juddy&theKruezers wrote: I reckon the title should read Mclean AND Lucas and not versus...both bring something different to the table and we are yet to see Mclean and Judd in the middle together....I'm looking forward to that.. Spot on |
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| Author: | Effes [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: McLean vs Lucas |
Hadley isn't up to it...very much overrated given his woeful disposal and inability to be accountable due to a lack of pace. Do we want Judd to keep getting smashed like he did yesterday? No doubt his inside work was the catalyst but it's going to shorten his career. Wait until McLean and Judd play a few games together.
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| Author: | aramari [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: McLean vs Lucas |
Juddy&theKruezers wrote: I reckon the title should read Mclean AND Lucas and not versus...both bring something different to the table and we are yet to see Mclean and Judd in the middle together....I'm looking forward to that.. I agree that title makes more sense
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| Author: | thegezman [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: McLean vs Lucas |
i totally thrilled to have brock at the club. very smart recurit IMO. Judd and Murphy will thrive with him around doing all the grunt work for the next 5-7 years. don't panic he's had one game off with a sore hip. i'm praying he plays against the cats. his hardness will be critical |
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| Author: | caulfieldrover [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: McLean vs Lucas |
Both McLean and Lucas will find spots in our team, we are likely to move on Scotland and Houlihan in the next year or so or early if form fluctuates. Houlihan has played one good game in 4 so far. Good teams look for the same level of performance every week across the board. We still have too many players that run hot and cold. McLean and Lucas look like they both have something to offer. |
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| Author: | Lace Out [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: McLean vs Lucas |
thegezman wrote: i totally thrilled to have brock at the club. very smart recurit IMO. Judd and Murphy will thrive with him around doing all the grunt work for the next 5-7 years. don't panic he's had one game off with a sore hip. i'm praying he plays against the cats. his hardness will be critical I hate to be te bearer of bad news but it's not his hip. It's his ankle again..... According to Brock it's only a 1-2 week injury, but considering he doesn't say too much it could be worse. |
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| Author: | Pafloyul [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: McLean vs Lucas |
Let's face it; nothing Carlton ever does is ever going to be officially 'wrong', just 'different'. It's too easy just to rationalise a method to everything to the point that every decision makes some kind of sense even if the overall picture can go to hell. Elliott's the bogey man of our past but it's easier to just paint him as a monster who mugged the club to death than to analyse his, and the clubs, actions and perhaps accept that there is still a germ at Carlton of the mentality that nearly ruined the club. That's in no way saying that we'll ever be there again or that we won't be successful. I would have kept the pick but then again, the concept of a successful trade can never be defined so I'm 'wrong' simply because the trade has already occurred. However, the positives of having BM at the club do not invalidate the idea that keeping the pick would have been a good thing. |
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| Author: | Kouta [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | McLean vs Lucas |
Pafloyul wrote: Let's face it; nothing Carlton ever does is ever going to be officially 'wrong', just 'different'. It's too easy just to rationalise a method to everything to the point that every decision makes some kind of sense even if the overall picture can go to hell. Elliott's the bogey man of our past but it's easier to just paint him as a monster who mugged the club to death than to analyse his, and the clubs, actions and perhaps accept that there is still a germ at Carlton of the mentality that nearly ruined the club. That's in no way saying that we'll ever be there again or that we won't be successful. I would have kept the pick but then again, the concept of a successful trade can never be defined so I'm 'wrong' simply because the trade has already occurred. However, the positives of having BM at the club do not invalidate the idea that keeping the pick would have been a good thing. What   
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| Author: | fraser murphy [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: McLean vs Lucas |
Kouta wrote: Pafloyul wrote: Let's face it; nothing Carlton ever does is ever going to be officially 'wrong', just 'different'. It's too easy just to rationalise a method to everything to the point that every decision makes some kind of sense even if the overall picture can go to hell. Elliott's the bogey man of our past but it's easier to just paint him as a monster who mugged the club to death than to analyse his, and the clubs, actions and perhaps accept that there is still a germ at Carlton of the mentality that nearly ruined the club. That's in no way saying that we'll ever be there again or that we won't be successful. I would have kept the pick but then again, the concept of a successful trade can never be defined so I'm 'wrong' simply because the trade has already occurred. However, the positives of having BM at the club do not invalidate the idea that keeping the pick would have been a good thing. What I think he was talking about programatic specificity. |
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| Author: | Gilly34 [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: McLean vs Lucas |
can we get a third opinion?
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