TalkingCarlton
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

Swap Setanta and Thornton
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27778		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Teddy Hopkins Son [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:19 am ]
Post subject:  Swap Setanta and Thornton
Setanta can't kick for goal and can't mark, but is tall and athletic
Thornton can't negate quality opponents, doesn't provide run out of the backhalf and turns the ball over too often in the backhalf. What he does have is a good hands, great reader of the play and has shown he can play forward (Vs Port in recent years once we were already 10 goals down).

Why not try directly swapping the two? We still dont have anyone big enough to play on the opposition gorillas, so Setanta may be able to fill that void. I thought he was ok as a tall back under pagan but lacked experience and awareness, which i think he has improved on significantly.

Thornton can take a mark and kick a goal- he is the sort of guy i think would do nicely as a forward in a team with a strong midfield which we (supposedly) have. No freakish talents, but would be serviceable and you know what you are going to get from him which would make planning easier.

With the extra height down back it may also release Walker to play forward.

Forward line could look something like this:
HF: Yarran Henderson Walker
FF: Waite Thornton Betts

Worth a shot after the disorganised crap we dished up on saturday night.
Author:  The Normal One [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Swap Setanta and Thornton
Yet Carlos has 9 goals to his name?

I agree with T-Bird being given a run up forward though. Has really struggled in defense recently and if Bower is about to return now might be the time to make that switch.
Author:  ThePsychologist [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Swap Setanta and Thornton
Been saying for years that Thornton needs to go forward and now is a better time than ever.

If Bower is back he can take Tippett (if fit), Jamo on the Porplyzia and Walker on Walker.

As large a ground as AAMI is we need that extra lead up fwd anyway.
Author:  Blues Clues [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Swap Setanta and Thornton
Rafalution wrote:
Yet Carlos has 9 goals to his name?

I agree with T-Bird being given a run up forward though. Has really struggled in defense recently and if Bower is about to return now might be the time to make that switch.


Indeed, 9 goals from 3 games, high up on goal kicking list. 2 goals Sat night in a "shocker" effort for him.

Let the guy settle in, FFS. We have short memories, Pears is an elite back, what did he do to Fev last yr???? Fev got one on Tarrant @ the Goldie in a "shocker", shite happens.

2 goals on a shocking night, please, let's get some perspective.

T-Bird, the magic wand solution? Can he chase like Carlos, physicality to split a pack? Carlos not a great pack mark, granted, but what are T-Bird's credentials in this area???

A few more weeks before we pass judgment, please.

IMHO, Waite's efforts were far worse than Carlos, Waitey needs to take a good look at himself and I'm sure he will.
Author:  Navy Blue Horse [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Swap Setanta and Thornton
Would prefer Wiggins as a lead up fwd an Thornton at the Ants. I fear that Thornton is mentally scarred after all these years.
Author:  Blue Revival [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Swap Setanta and Thornton
Thornton has 4 goals in 152 games, not the best credentials to move him forward. would prefer to see Austin get a run up forward when fit.
Author:  The Duke [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Swap Setanta and Thornton
This should've been tried Saturday night IMO. We had some mismatches at either end and it was clear we weren't going to overcome the problem. I don't know whether I'd start this way each week, but I'd certainly have it as a credible option and a plan B.

Ratten said he thought the players were waiting for another player to spark them into action - well, maybe they were waiting for their coach to ignite them.
Author:  blue in the face [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Swap Setanta and Thornton
Thornton is a fantastic defender ... as the 3rd tall .... he is undersized for key position back and that has been underlined in the last 2 weeks with Bower out. He may well be a good option up forward but let's not write him off as one of our best 6 down back. It is the structure that is broken with Bower out ... Thornton is not the problem.

I agree with comments in other threads that we do not seem to be getting the best out of Walker. I think he might be useful at FF ... quick, can take a big mark and maybe better kick from set shot than on the run (??)

On the other hand, I agree with Clues that the results from Carlos have not been bad at all and he should be given more time .... not judged so quickly on one poor game (still two goals). Anyway I would have thought his role was as much about creating opportunities for the small forwards and I think he does this well. I would like to see Garlett come in to add to our crumbing around Carlos.

FF Betts Carlos Walker
HF Yarran Hendo Garlett

???
Author:  darknavy [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Swap Setanta and Thornton
Teddy Hopkins Son wrote:
Forward line could look something like this:
HF: Yarran Henderson Walker
FF: Waite Thornton Betts




Yarran Genuine Forward
Betts Genuine Forward
Henderson - Half back at Brisbane
Waite - Utility/ Half Back
Walker - Half Back
Thorton - Genuine Back played 150 games in defense

This is not the year to tank
Author:  jimmae [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Swap Setanta and Thornton
I can't believe some of you are blaming Thornton for the gaping hole in the corridor, where Essendon* rarely received pressure, and when they did, they had loose options either side of it. To top it off, the blokes dropping back into our D50 would drift up once the ball looked like coming in, putting them in no position to make a play on the kick or the kicker.

darknavy wrote:
Yarran Genuine Forward - half-forward actually
Betts Genuine Forward
Henderson - Half back at Brisbane because of J. Brown & D. Bradshaw in attack, which is also what got M. Clark into the ruck
Waite - Utility/ Half Back - played a lot of games as a forward and is comfortable at CHF last check
Walker - Half Back - attacking half-back as a junior, earmarked as a midfielder/forward at this level
Thorton - Genuine Back played 150 games in defense - and did alright in stints up forward last year, could have been tried as a tactic with Waite going back on Saturday night to give a spark

This is not the year to tank

Fixed
Author:  Virgin Blue [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Swap Setanta and Thornton
How about this for an idea - TRADE THORNTON
Author:  Indie [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Swap Setanta and Thornton
Santy had a good hand in 4 goals out of our 10 - the 2 he kicked, which were pretty much entirely of his own making, a tap to Eddie for a goal and a handpass to Waite for a goal. It's not as though he has the 50 to himself in the same way that Fev did - he doesn't dominate I50s in the way he did and he doesn't limit scoring from other forwards.

I want to see how he goes with Juddy in the midfield. In the past, I've noted that Juddy has gone out of his way to involve Santy, and I'd expect he'd do so even more now that he's a key forward. He's also one of the few mids we have who look to run through the corridor and kick to a forward I50 - most of the others (Murph excepted) are all too willing to run it along the boundary in a stop-start fashion, and I doubt any forward would be advantaged by that. That's where Stevo's retirement is hurting us.
Author:  ryan2000 [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Swap Setanta and Thornton
God NO!

Setanta finally looks settled. Sure, he had a bit of a stinker the other night, but he kept trying and set up a couple of goals for others whilst kicking two of his own.


Setanta is our forward for 2010. There is not better option.

9 goals from 3 games......... i'm happy enough with that so far!
Author:  Navy Blue Horse [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Swap Setanta and Thornton
Virgin Blue wrote:
How about this for an idea - TRADE THORNTON


Too late now, damaged goods.
Author:  bosman [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Swap Setanta and Thornton
hopefully with Juddy back Setanta might get better quality ball delivered to him in the forward line.

Carlos was free so many times in the forward line on sat night but the ball was never kicked to his advantage, instead it was kicked more to his opponent.

If he can keep averaging 3 goals a game, and end up around the 60+ at the end of the year then he has passed with flying colours IMO. Its up to a few other to pitch in with 30+ goals.

Swapping Thornton and Carlos would be swapping like for like, both play loose and not the best kick.
Author:  kots1234 [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Swap Setanta and Thornton
Really cant understand all the negative Thornton talk. He has done a great job for the Blues over the years. Sure he can make mistakes but I'd hate to think how our backline would have held up had T-Bird not been down back over the last 5 years!

He is not really suited to FB or CHB, more of a HBF. Not a forward if you ask me. Leave Irish up forward and give him time. He had a shocker on Sat night - but so did 20 other players out there!

I'd love to see Austin fit and playing. He is a definate CHB option. And by all reports could develop into a forward also.
Author:  Indie [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Swap Setanta and Thornton
Don't base your view about Santy's kicking on the last few games. I agree, it hasn't been that flash this year, but I reckon he's just in a bad patch and he'll start to impress in the coming weeks.

Robbo didn't like Santy taking the shot on goal, and that's a separate issue (you could argue that you triple the chance of a miss if you go the pass, mark and shot for goal rather than taking a shot towards an unguarded goal). But IIRC, Santy used his non-preferred foot for that shot. Maybe I'm remembering it wrongly, but even if he didn't use his left on that occasion I've seen him use it during matches before and he can kick well with it. He's able to kick 50m with it, and kick across his body with it in snap shots. That is truly remarkable, and perhaps is one of the advantages of learning to kick an Aussie Rules ball late in life - he learnt to kick it equally well with both feet and had the self-discipline that comes from being a mature sportsman to avoid just working on his preferred side. We've probably all had the experience of trying to expand our range of shots, whether it be in tennis, footy or cricket, but it's very hard to get up the confidence to use it in a match even if it works at training. That's what I like about Santy - he has the guts to put what he learns into practice during matches and thus he expands his arsenal in a way that makes him difficult to control. I doubt whether his opponents would anticipate him swinging onto his non-preferred side so happily and that gives him a weapon, whereas opponents pretty much know that if they can take Simmo's left foot out of the equation he's pretty well stuffed.
Author:  fmurphy30 [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Swap Setanta and Thornton
kots1234 wrote:
Really cant understand all the negative Thornton talk. He has done a great job for the Blues over the years. Sure he can make mistakes but I'd hate to think how our backline would have held up had T-Bird not been down back over the last 5 years!

He is not really suited to FB or CHB, more of a HBF. Not a forward if you ask me. Leave Irish up forward and give him time. He had a shocker on Sat night - but so did 20 other players out there!

I'd love to see Austin fit and playing. He is a definate CHB option. And by all reports could develop into a forward also.


Thornton had a shocker the week before as well. If we had a fully fit list, he might be looking at Magoos time for the first time in a long time. He has talent as a defender, but he is undisciplined in minding his man and his disposal is not good enough for him to be the "creator" across half back. Pinch hitting up forward might be ok, but he is a defender.

I agree with the idea of sending Austin forward. Great size, good kick and pretty quick. He gets lost as a defender (like Setanta) and might make a very effective FF. If only he wasn't injured. No pre-season either. ROK might have been another option out of left field.

It's a pity that Edwards wasn't retained. Given an open forward line and decent delivery, he might have developed (but that depends on whether there were other reasons for his delisting).
Author:  Michael Jezz [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Swap Setanta and Thornton
At the beginning of the year you would have taken Santis performance up to this point. 9 goals. Swapping Thornton for Setanta is robbing peter to pay paul. Setanta is a fine 3rd backman but he will get turned inside out by a gun forward.
I would have given him a run in the ruck and played Kreuzer forward for a change up. I actually think what this thread indicates is that priority is higher for a genuine kpp backman.
Author:  woof [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Swap Setanta and Thornton
Eddie Betts has 5 goals from 15 shots, he is going at 33% at the moment.
He should be around 66% which equates to another 5 goals. His effeciency in front of goal has cost us four points.
Leave Santy forward and leave Thornton out when Bower returns and replace Eddie with Garlett if that % does not improve quickly.
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC + 10 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/