grrofunger wrote:
leading to the pockets and shooting from angles is going to lead to more misses than not
Yes but "going through the corridor leaves you wide open on the break and easy to score against. Corridor is bad"
[/Ratten/Riley]
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| Thoughts about our forward set up http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27765 |
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| Author: | RickJ [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Thoughts about our forward set up |
We do not look threatening in the least with our current set up, and need to re-examine. Quite obviously the loss of Fevola has left a gaping hole, even bigger than expected. I am happy with Betts and Yarran, they at least look dangerous, chase and tackle well, and can run with the ball and kick accurately. O'hailpin gives an effort, but we will never be a top 8 side with him as our key forward. Again I am happpy with his enthusiasm and defensive pressure, but he cant take a contested overhead mark and his kicking is woeful. Henderson, early days I know, but a long way from being an AFL player in my opinion. Mate, more second efforts please, at least look like you're trying. Waite is not a forward. Play him at CHB and leave him there. Warnock offers nothing up forward and doesnt contribute enough on the ball to justify his position. Bring in Jacobs Kreuzer is great on the ball, a 200cm ruck rover and a great contributor, but less effective up forward and not the solution. SOME IDEAS FOR THE NEXT FEW WEEKS 1. Gibbs at full forward. An elite midfielder obviously if played as he should. But with Judd back, maybe Hadley in for McLean, Murphy, Walker for the grunt and tag role, and Carazzo underrated as a mid field ball getter, I think we could spare him. He is quick on the lead, has good hands, is a brilliant and long goal kick and would create problems if given enough space 2. Add Gartlett to Betts and Yarran, a forward line mosquito fleet. Houlihan up forward as well or drop him. Can kick goals, a liability deep in defence particularly overhead. 3. Henderson is not ready but we need to persist with him given our lack of talls. Give the guy some instruction for gods sake. Lead straight, go harder with second efforts, chase and tackle, practice your goal kicking. I'm tempted to drop him but dont think we should. Play him higher up the field. O'Hailpin to play deeper and force the spills if he cant mark. 4. Dont lead to the pockets. Dont kick short if team mate covered, kick long to the hot spots and force the spill. 5. Win the midfield clearances so at least your forwards have time and space. |
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| Author: | Adam Chatfield [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thoughts about our forward set up |
This covers why so many people (myself included) thought we would drop out of the 8. Unless we are dominating the midfield we are going to struggle to score. We probably have to control 60-70% of games against sides which are not Melbourne/Richmond in order to win. Last night showed what happens when we only control 40%. We probably controlled 60% of the game against Brisbane, and still lost. |
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| Author: | grrofunger [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thoughts about our forward set up |
Who would want to be a forward in our team with the way the ball is moved from defence and the midfield and the shit delivery inside 50 We could make Brown, Fevola, Reiwoldt, Roughhead, Franklin etc - all look like useless monkeys with the way we move the ball at the moment |
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| Author: | club29 [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thoughts about our forward set up |
If we kick the goals when they present themselves we will find it easier to spread the defence. Unfortunately in the last two games we just keep missing. We need players early in games to lead to the pocket, mark and then go back and kick it. From there we can dictate where defenders are going to go. If we miss and keep missing they will just sag off and protect the middle and we will get all clogged up and struggle. |
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| Author: | grrofunger [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thoughts about our forward set up |
leading to the pockets and shooting from angles is going to lead to more misses than not |
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| Author: | Princes Park Whistler [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thoughts about our forward set up |
grrofunger wrote: leading to the pockets and shooting from angles is going to lead to more misses than not Exactly. We need to be directing more ball towards the hot spot 15 to 20m in front of goal with Eddie,Yarran and Garlett ready for the crumbs. Opposition defence need to be put under more pressure. They would love us having our shots from the pockets.
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| Author: | RickJ [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thoughts about our forward set up |
Gibbs to full forward sacrifices his talents (and Brownlow potential) in the short term but we need a target who is potentially dangerous. I dont get that feel at all at present as we come forward. His role would be a bit like Porplyzia at Adelaide and Mark Williams at Hawthorn a couple of years back. I think it could work. |
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| Author: | club29 [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thoughts about our forward set up |
grrofunger wrote: leading to the pockets and shooting from angles is going to lead to more misses than not So we need to weed out the guys that cant kick them from the pockets or else the opposition will just sit their 6 or 7 defenders right in the middle and give us no option but to bomb and again limit our chances of a score. Thats the way i see it anyway. I see big St Nick, Brown and fev have no problem leading to the pockets. You kick one or two early and the forward line will be a lot more open for the rest of the game making it easier to hit up blokes straight out. |
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| Author: | Nick [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thoughts about our forward set up |
grrofunger wrote: leading to the pockets and shooting from angles is going to lead to more misses than not Yes but "going through the corridor leaves you wide open on the break and easy to score against. Corridor is bad" [/Ratten/Riley]
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| Author: | RickJ [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thoughts about our forward set up |
Obviously you need to use the whole field. But there's leading to the pockets and LEADING TO THE POCKETS. Young Henderson (due to inexperience) on a couple of occasions last night looked like he was about to leap the fence and head for a drink in the Long Room. He nearly knocked over the behind post on the way! There's an arc within which players should reasonably slot them through. Boundary line goals are rare. |
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| Author: | Virgin Blue [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thoughts about our forward set up |
Irish is a good 3rd or even 2nd fwd, but not a prime target. He showed last night he still has no idea about certain things, and he's already 27. Dropped mark in the guts he should have eaten, and then running back with Pagan's paddock he simply did not read the flight. He is best scragging at ground level |
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| Author: | blueboy23 [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thoughts about our forward set up |
yarran waite murphy casboult henderson betts murphy to rotate with the other mids, maybe kreuzer can rest up there as well, henderson is only 20 and needs time, casboult why not? henderson and casboult to play inside the 50, while waite plays up the ground more. waite should play forward, we have bower, thornton, jamison and austin to play down back. maybe gartlett also? |
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| Author: | ryan2000 [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thoughts about our forward set up |
Err, What forward set-up???? |
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| Author: | RickJ [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thoughts about our forward set up |
Blueboy 23 said "waite should play forward, we have bower, thornton, jamison and austin to play down back". Waite is elite, we know that, but last night showed that he was ineffective against ordinary opposition up forward, and really came into his own when released to his best role across half back. We were only missing Bower last night (Austin is not a regular starter in my opinion) and yet we looked undersized. This was even more apparent against Brisbane the previous week. Thornton cant manage the gorillas, Macguire as a third round pick may have been the answer, Waite can manage even the biggest and baddest because of his leap. We need him in the backline. His kicking is not good enough to be a regular goal scoring forward. His real strength is his ability to float across packs and take big marks in defence, then run on and create attack. We need a big marking forward but in my opinion Waite (and Kreuzer and Hampson) are not the answer. We need to be creative and go smaller and faster, thus the suggestion: Betts, Gibbs, O'Hailpin Yarran Henderson Garlett (Houlihan or Robinson rotating) Three very fast small swooping guys and a fast leading Gibbs would look dangerous. Worth a try I reckon |
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| Author: | Pickle [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thoughts about our forward set up |
In the last play of the bullants v bendigo match yesterday....Kerr picked up the ball around half fwd and absolutely drilled a pass around 40m into a conjested fwd line and hit someone on the chest (sorry i didn't see who). Anyway it was one of the best passes i've seen for a blues listed player in years....prob since Diesel. So some light at the end of a very dark tunnel!!!! |
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| Author: | Stefchook [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thoughts about our forward set up |
I liked the move against Brisbane of sending Simmo to the goalsquare for a while. And I also like the suggestion of occasionally playing Gibbs out of the square. It would be nice to see him used offensively more often. Besides given that we don't realy have any gun forwards at the moment, the more options who can contribute, the better. |
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| Author: | Adam Chatfield [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thoughts about our forward set up |
Nick wrote: grrofunger wrote: leading to the pockets and shooting from angles is going to lead to more misses than not Yes but "going through the corridor leaves you wide open on the break and easy to score against. Corridor is bad" [/Ratten/Riley] Yes, I get concerned everytime I hear those comments. All this slowing down the game down crap just prevents us from running, carrying, working hard. We just end up as a static, crap, confused football team. |
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| Author: | aramari [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thoughts about our forward set up |
RickJ wrote: Blueboy 23 said "waite should play forward, we have bower, thornton, jamison and austin to play down back". Waite is elite, we know that, but last night showed that he was ineffective against ordinary opposition up forward, and really came into his own when released to his best role across half back. We were only missing Bower last night (Austin is not a regular starter in my opinion) and yet we looked undersized. This was even more apparent against Brisbane the previous week. Thornton cant manage the gorillas, Macguire as a third round pick may have been the answer, Waite can manage even the biggest and baddest because of his leap. We need him in the backline. His kicking is not good enough to be a regular goal scoring forward. His real strength is his ability to float across packs and take big marks in defence, then run on and create attack. We need a big marking forward but in my opinion Waite (and Kreuzer and Hampson) are not the answer. We need to be creative and go smaller and faster, thus the suggestion: Betts, Gibbs, O'Hailpin Yarran Henderson Garlett (Houlihan or Robinson rotating) Three very fast small swooping guys and a fast leading Gibbs would look dangerous. Worth a try I reckon How often have you seen Gibbs break into a gallop? 10 times in 3 years? |
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| Author: | Stefchook [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thoughts about our forward set up |
I also like the idea that has been suggested in other threads of Walker being given a chance out of the goal square. |
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| Author: | Virgin Blue [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thoughts about our forward set up |
Are Setanta and Henderson the future? Are they going to be a good enough tall tandem to take us to Premiership glory in 2 years? If NO, then will the answer lie in one or all of Kruezer, Warnock, Hampson?? If NO, then we are left with Levi and Donaldson, but that could take 4 years, by which time Judd will be almost 30. |
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