TalkingCarlton
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

Why Don’t We Just Copy St.Kilda’s Game Plan?
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27725		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  Virgin Blue [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Why Don’t We Just Copy St.Kilda’s Game Plan?
I have been watching VFL/AFL football since 1980, so that is 30 years of experience watching this great game. And in that time, I can safely say I have NEVER seen a team like this current St.Kilda outfit, who have consistently, week after week held their opposition to unbelievably low scores, esp in the first half. Last weekend I turned on the TV to see the score at one stage in the Saints/Kangas game was 60 to 1. That is eye popping. It is simply unbelievable and we saw this many, many times last year.

There are a lot of good teams right now, all with Premiership aspirations in 2010, but strike me if the Saints don’t break their drought this year. This is as good an opportunity as they will ever have. Premierships are won by teams with great defences, and St.Kilda’s defence (not just the back 6 but the whole team game plan and philosophy) is exceptional, the best I have ever seen.

All of which begs the question – why don’t Carlton (let alone all clubs) copy the defensive philosophy that St.Kilda employ? Surely it can’t be that hard?? Just show the playing group the tapes, over and over again, and isolate the game plan and copy it.

Our backline pride themselves on keeping their opposition score below 100 pts – but last weekend we let the Lions kick over 100. I know Brown was unbelievable, but the question needs to be asked – why wasn’t he double teamed (Carey said on radio this morning the only way to beat Brown is to double team him); and why wasn’t our midfield better at reducing Brown’s supply esp in the last quarter?

All summer we have heard Ratts talk on and on about how this year we will be more patient and hold the ball more, to keep the ball out of the opposition's hands and in turn reduce their scoring chances. That is fine, but why don't we also employ similar tactics St.Kilda use? I'm not such a great student of the game as maybe some others in here at TC, so let me know if we are already trying to emulate St.Kilda's game plan. But it doesn't appear to me we are. And I don't buy into the 'our list is too young' arguement for not being able to copy the Saints' game plan. We're mature enough. Surely we can start laying the foundations for a similarly tight ar$ed approach??
Author:  Cazzesman [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Don’t We Just Copy St.Kilda’s Game Plan?
It is all to do with overall group fitness and the groups physical size/strength. We are working on both but it takes time. The Saints have more mature players than we do plus a guy like the Roo who has 10 years and a heart like Phar lap. Backing up week after week takes years of physical conditioning.

We may be more advanced than the Tigers but you wouldn't expect the Tigers to play like the Saints.

Regards Cazzesman
Author:  club29 [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Don’t We Just Copy St.Kilda’s Game Plan?
I think in time all teams will play like st kilda to the point where it will be like soccer or basketball when once a team gets the ball the whole team run to the other end to get behind the ball and defend. Thats when the AFL need to bring the player numbers down to 16 each on the field each or make it that a 2 or 3 from each team doesnt cross halfway.

To this point though the tactic hasnt won a flag even with Rewaldt in the team. Geelong seem to be the team Ratts is modelling us on. They have been the best team of the last eight years so cant really complain.
Author:  Clayman [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Don’t We Just Copy St.Kilda’s Game Plan?
St.Kilda stole Sydney's game plan.
Author:  Virgin Blue [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Don’t We Just Copy St.Kilda’s Game Plan?
Cazzesman wrote:
It is all to do with overall group fitness and the groups physical size/strength. We are working on both but it takes time. The Saints have more mature players than we do plus a guy like the Roo who has 10 years and a heart like Phar lap. Backing up week after week takes years of physical conditioning.

We may be more advanced than the Tigers but you wouldn't expect the Tigers to play like the Saints.

Regards Cazzesman


Crikey, I hope we're more advanced than the Tigers :donk:
Author:  Virgin Blue [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Don’t We Just Copy St.Kilda’s Game Plan?
club29 wrote:
I think in time all teams will play like st kilda to the point where it will be like soccer or basketball when once a team gets the ball the whole team run to the other end to get behind the ball and defend. Thats when the AFL need to bring the player numbers down to 16 each on the field each or make it that a 2 or 3 from each team doesnt cross halfway.

To this point though the tactic hasnt won a flag even with Rewaldt in the team. Geelong seem to be the team Ratts is modelling us on. They have been the best team of the last eight years so cant really complain.


Hmm, but the Cats have an unbelievable midfield. As good as our Mids are, they are a way behind the Cats Mids. Of course age plays a part in that too, but point is they not only have Ablett, Selwood and Bartel, but also Corey, Enright, Chapman, Ling. Saints have a good midfield core but not as good as Cats, so their game plan makes up for the lack of talent. Great games plans make the whole side good, make ordinary players like Ray look good.
Author:  The Duke [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Don’t We Just Copy St.Kilda’s Game Plan?
Look at the disposal of players like Scotland, Russell, Walker, Armfield and Anderson - That's why we don't play like StKilda.
Author:  Bookie [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Don’t We Just Copy St.Kilda’s Game Plan?
Blake, Baker, Dawson, Gwilt aren't exactly pin-point by foot either in their back half.
Author:  SurreyBlue [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Don’t We Just Copy St.Kilda’s Game Plan?
Dear god ... lets all now follow StKilda's lead ... how far the mighty have fallen! :cry:

ps. We start playing Sydney's game and that will be it. :fight:
Author:  Virgin Blue [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Don’t We Just Copy St.Kilda’s Game Plan?
SurreyBlue wrote:
Dear god ... lets all now follow StKilda's lead ... how far the mighty have fallen! :cry:

ps. We start playing Sydney's game and that will be it. :fight:


Swans game plan won them a Flag, and Saints are on the cusp.
Author:  SurreyBlue [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Don’t We Just Copy St.Kilda’s Game Plan?
Geelong's game plan has won them 2 and contested 3 GF.
Hawthorn's game plan has won them 1.

Your point is ... sorry but lets do what is best for our players / team and not copy someone for the sake of it.

ps. Sydney did win but WC lost is more. :thumbsup:
Author:  Virgin Blue [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Don’t We Just Copy St.Kilda’s Game Plan?
SurreyBlue wrote:
Geelong's game plan has won them 2 and contested 3 GF.
Hawthorn's game plan has won them 1.

Your point is ... sorry but lets do what is best for our players / team and not copy someone for the sake of it.

ps. Sydney did win but WC lost is more. :thumbsup:


Not all clubs can follow Cats game plan, you need skills across the board and elite midfielders, and they have that.

Happy to follow Hawks game plan, and Saints. They are both defense oriented, and until we have a midfield as good as Cats I think it makes sense to implement defensive minded game plans.

That is suiting the game plan to your list.

Don't even understand your last line about Syd and WC
Author:  Rocco Iguana [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Don’t We Just Copy St.Kilda’s Game Plan?
is this the same St Kilda, who will be branded the great underachievers of the modern era ?

f&%! St Kilda, we are Carlton
Author:  Virgin Blue [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Don’t We Just Copy St.Kilda’s Game Plan?
Rocco Iguana wrote:
is this the same St Kilda, who will be branded the great underachievers of the modern era ?

f&%! St Kilda, we are Carlton


This whole We Are Carlton blah blah blah St.Kilda are Under Achievers thing is getting a bit tiring.

CFC are not untouchable. Times have changed.

We need to get with the program, and we are certainly on the way to doing so.

But let's not lose sight of the fact St.Kilda are doing bloody well, and we are a long way off their pace.

The days of the rich being up the top all the time and the Saints and Dogs being down the bottom all the time is over.

It's about maximising the draft and shrewd trading, and having good leadership and a game plan that works
Author:  Kouta [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Don’t We Just Copy St.Kilda’s Game Plan?
The Duke wrote:
Look at the disposal of players like Scotland, Russell, Walker, Armfield and Anderson - That's why we don't play like StKilda.

:garthp:

Would you swap Walker for Farren Ray? :sly:

Walker's first two or three kicks running flat out were bullets that hit their mark.

Russell is genuinely dual sided.

Walker isn't far off.

Unlike Simpson, JR and Walker don't take off like a rocket and try to squeeze out a kick on their preferred foot with a marker closing on that side of their body. :banghead: :screwy:

Why are left footers so useless on their right side?

I reckon right footers would be better kicks with their wrong foot.
Author:  Adam Chatfield [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Don’t We Just Copy St.Kilda’s Game Plan?
It all comes down to personnel. Why didn't St Kilda copy Geelong? Why didn't Geelong copy West Coast? Why didn't Sydney copy Port Adelaide etc.

Footy evolves, bits are taken from each successful side and applied in a way which suits a teams group of players.

We could follow the no real plan but brilliant midfield approach of West Coast :sly:

Ratts has identified that we like to attack attack attack, but that has to be reigned in a bit for us to take the next step. I was worried at the start of the year that would mean no run, static football. Seems like he hasn't thrown the baby out with the bathwater, but trying to get the balance right.

And we have a very different kind of side to St Kilda, we don't have their mature bodies. Our side structure is more in the Geelong mould (super midfield, spread of goalkickers).
Author:  The Duke [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Don’t We Just Copy St.Kilda’s Game Plan?
Kouta wrote:
The Duke wrote:
Look at the disposal of players like Scotland, Russell, Walker, Armfield and Anderson - That's why we don't play like StKilda.

:garthp:

Would you swap Walker for Farren Ray? :sly:

Walker's first two or three kicks running flat out were bullets that hit their mark.

Russell is genuinely dual sided.

Walker isn't far off.

Unlike Simpson, JR and Walker don't take off like a rocket and try to squeeze out a kick on their preferred foot with a marker closing on that side of their body. :banghead: :screwy:

Why are left footers so useless on their right side?

I reckon right footers would be better kicks with their wrong foot.


For the record, I don't believe the names you highlighted are really bad by foot, but a gameplan that requires centermetre perfection would expose them and cost us big time.
Author:  Virgin Blue [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Don’t We Just Copy St.Kilda’s Game Plan?
Adam Chatfield wrote:
It all comes down to personnel. Why didn't St Kilda copy Geelong? Why didn't Geelong copy West Coast? Why didn't Sydney copy Port Adelaide etc.

Footy evolves, bits are taken from each successful side and applied in a way which suits a teams group of players.

We could follow the no real plan but brilliant midfield approach of West Coast :sly:

Ratts has identified that we like to attack attack attack, but that has to be reigned in a bit for us to take the next step. I was worried at the start of the year that would mean no run, static football. Seems like he hasn't thrown the baby out with the bathwater, but trying to get the balance right.

And we have a very different kind of side to St Kilda, we don't have their mature bodies. Our side structure is more in the Geelong mould (super midfield, spread of goalkickers).


Yeah look I agree with what you say, esp about hard bodies etc, but I guess my point was not to totally copy St.Kilda, but to borrow heavily from it.

Point is, they're defensive record it out of this world. Why don't other teams with hardened bodies do the same? You can['t tell me other coaches wouldn't like to keep the opp to 1 gl in the first half of footy.

It's a no brainer. Saints defensive record is so good you are mad to not copy it.

It's a rare instance granted.
Author:  Teddy Hopkins Son [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Don’t We Just Copy St.Kilda’s Game Plan?
The Duke wrote:
Look at the disposal of players like Scotland, Russell, Walker, Armfield and Anderson - That's why we don't play like StKilda.


How can you include Scotland in that group?! Terrific user on both sides. Yes he has fluffed a few this year, bit a few bad kicks early in a season doesn't mean you have bad disposal.
Author:  The Duke [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Don’t We Just Copy St.Kilda’s Game Plan?
THS, I love a Scooter left footer, but he has [REDACTED] a few up this year, and every year it is getting more and more important NOT to turn the footy over in dangerous situations.

I picked those players because they have stood out as blokes who turn it over in the wrong place and at the wrong time.
Page 1 of 4 All times are UTC + 10 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/