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Backup Coaching Plan - is it disloyal?
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Author:  Bluey44 [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Backup Coaching Plan - is it disloyal?
Just wanted to get people's thoughts on whether we need a backup plan for the possibility of Ratts not being up to it and getting the axe.

I hope he succeeds and leads us to the next flag - I really do. I think this year will really put the spotlight (and possibly the blowtorch) on him - no Fev, and no Judd at arguably the most crucial part of our draw.

Couple of Questions:

1. If we fail this year (this is subjective but i would say 12 or lower is failure) do we wait another year, or fire Ratts before the next preseason?

2. Do you think we need to start formulating a Plan B in case the worst happens and we need to fire the coach? If so do you think Sticks and Swanny and the board have already considered this?



I don't post this to be negative, i am actually very very positive about the direction our club is heading, and ESPECIALLY the way our list is heading.
I think everything is falling into place to form a premiership team and club, all pieces are in place - but my one doubt is with Ratts.

I haven't written him off yet, as all great coaches obviously have to come from obscurity and surprise everyone to some degree, but I just feel as though we have worked too hard and suffered so much to get where we are that we can't afford to blindly follow him with no Plan B, and on the eve of the Richmond game it seems timely to reflect on what we need to do to ensure that we don't become a Ninthmond team - in limbo with a wasted premiership window.

This is not a thread to bag the coach, its more of a question of how prepared and how ruthless you think we do or don't have to be to get success in the modern game.
Is it disloyal to have a Plan B for Ratts?

The Swans and Magpies have already opened the door to the era of succession planning, and the spectre of free agency is looming to totally change the way clubs operate.

I felt our last coaching transition was essentially lacklustre, and i don't want it to happen that way again.
If our season goes to hell, i am starting to think that Ratts has been given ample opportunity and needs to go.
Who then is next in line?

Thoughts?
Author:  ThePsychologist [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backup Coaching Plan - is it disloyal?
Preparing a list of targeted candidates and then having a genuine selection process to get the 'best person' would be nice!
Author:  Captain Dan [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backup Coaching Plan - is it disloyal?
If we fail this year, then Ratten will be under more pressure than he has ever been. I think he has the 'no Fev factor' on his side, so if this season isn't so good, then it may be used in his defence. It all depends on HOW things happen though...if we are downright woeful with the game plans looking like a dog's breakfast and no sign of improvement, then the finger could be pointed. But if it's just a matter of an evident game-plan in the works, then he may be let off the hook. Just look at the Saints in 2007 under Ross Lyon experimenting with a new plan.

If it does come to getting a new coach, personally, I would be looking at someone like Dean Laidley. He has a great tactical mind and it often helped to screw us over against the Kangaroos more often than not. Was really surprised when he parted ways with North that we didn't approach him right away to get a deal done. Even as an assistant he would have a lot to offer.
Author:  Rexy [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backup Coaching Plan - is it disloyal?
Quote:
Is it disloyal to have a Plan B for Ratts?


Of course not.

Professionally run organisations always have a 'plan B' up their sleeves.

In this business our major assets are our players and as each year goes by our players get one year closer to retirement so there's really not much time for procrastinating decision makers to sit back to 'see what happens'.

Our star players are either in their prime or are entering their prime so realistically we should do quite well this year.
Author:  Ciccio [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backup Coaching Plan - is it disloyal?
talking about coaching I was pondering the other day that whilst there are restrictions on WHEN and HOW players are selected there are no such constraints, as far as i know, with the footy dept.

with that in mind ....if we are struggling with kick outs and kick ins I would love to see Carlton go and recruit a coach now who's speciality is design kick in and kick out strategies

in the usa for gridiron they have a special teams coach who only focuses on certain aspects like punting, kicking etc

I am not sure this is in vogue at the moment but this could be one way the blues could innovate and get a competative advantage over other teams
Author:  SurreyBlue [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backup Coaching Plan - is it disloyal?
Ratten has done nothing wrong and deserves our support and loyalty.
He has done everything asked of him over the past 2 years and has ticked every box.
Having said that, finals is a minimum this year and that is what we should all expect.
Anything less and he will have to answer questions but there is nothing new in that either.
Every year the club must raise the bar in order to achieve the success it demands as a professional club.
Bad times are never to be seen again ... and must never be seen again ... ever!
Author:  Brock Landers [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backup Coaching Plan - is it disloyal?
Not disloyal at all. Most professional organisations have strategies for such situations.

In my opinion we would be silly not to keep tabs on what Paul Roos is doing at seasons end - should our on field performances turn pear shape.
Author:  Bluey44 [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Backup Coaching Plan - is it disloyal?
Brock Landers wrote:
Not disloyal at all. Most professional organisations have strategies for such situations.

In my opinion we would be silly not to keep tabs on what Paul Roos is doing at seasons end - should our on field performances turn pear shape.


I agree. I was talking to a cats supporter who thought that Roos would be the perfect coach to mould us into a premiership squad
Author:  DocSherrin III [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Backup Coaching Plan - is it disloyal?
Bluey44 wrote:
2. Do you think we need to start formulating a Plan B in case the worst happens and we need to fire the coach? If so do you think Sticks and Swanny and the board have already considered this?


They'd have considered it from the point of Brett Ratten not being able to perform his duties due to illness or bereavement in his family. Similarly to the Alan Jeans/Alan Joyce situation Hawthorn found themselves in 1988. Like Hawthorn, the 2IC - in this instance Bomber Riley, would be appointed as interim coach for remainder of the season. That would leave a board sub-committee (plus one to two outside consultants) to determine the best course of action post-end of season.

To suggest that anything else would have been discussed would be highly unprofessional. In what will most likely be a highly unpredictable year, the Carlton hierarchy recognises that the club's on-field performance may have to take one step back before moving two steps forward.

You will never meet a more committed servant of the Carlton Football Club than Brett Ratten. His knowledge of the game is superb, his coaching ability fantastic and unlike others at senior level he is not afraid to leverage the expertise of those outside the football club. I would put my life savings on him not being fired in season 2010. It just isn't going to happen.
Author:  JohnM [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Backup Coaching Plan - is it disloyal?
Not disloyal. But insanely premature talk. Let the guy have 2010, and base his performance on the team's trajectory in the latter part of the season.
Author:  isdonis.george [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Backup Coaching Plan - is it disloyal?
There should be a backup plan but the way you go about it is important.
Have strong reservations about making it a high profile issue.
It can very easily go downhill into a negative thread.
If we go on about it it's hardly going to instil confidence in players, coach, admin and supporters.
Author:  Rocco Iguana [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Backup Coaching Plan - is it disloyal?
a backup coaching plan is downright dangerous, it says we don't trust you to suceed.

Let the coach get on with it and prove or disprove he's on the money.

people are confusing risk management theory with managing a footy team week in week out.
Author:  camel [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Backup Coaching Plan - is it disloyal?
Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
They'd have considered it from the point of Brett Ratten not being able to perform his duties due to illness or bereavement in his family. Similarly to the Alan Jeans/Alan Joyce situation Hawthorn found themselves in 1988. Like Hawthorn, the 2IC - in this instance Bomber Riley, would be appointed as interim coach for remainder of the season. That would leave a board sub-committee (plus one to two outside consultants) to determine the best course of action post-end of season...



Zing. :thumbsup:

Maybe the club has made some subtle enquiries about developing a plan B, but if it is anything more than even remotely subtle, then it's got massive potential to back fire.
Author:  frank dardew [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backup Coaching Plan - is it disloyal?
I heard Malthouse in 2012 if lmited success in the next couple -rumour not sure how strong
Author:  Rexy [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backup Coaching Plan - is it disloyal?
Rocco Iguana wrote:
a backup coaching plan is downright dangerous, it says we don't trust you to suceed.

Let the coach get on with it and prove or disprove he's on the money.

people are confusing risk management theory with managing a footy team week in week out.


I'm pretty sure Ratts and the rest of the FD realise that with the list of players we have either in their prime or entering their prime years they need to be getting positive results or the club will move on them. That's the nature of this business which everyone understands.
Author:  samblueboy [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backup Coaching Plan - is it disloyal?
Carlton has invested heavily in Ratten, not just contract wise but almost everything. He's got his coaches - former teammates and fellow assistants. He's got his players - recruits (Warnock, Johnson, McLean) and all the drafted young mids. Carlton right now is Ratten's vision, he has had a lot more influence then a lot of other coaches had/have with their teams. Seeing as how much of a blow it will be to Carlton if they realize Ratten isn't up to it, I think they'll hold off on doing anything for as long as they, which is the end of the contract unless they somehow end up in the bottom 5. No one expects them to be that bad so a back up plan probably hasn't been created yet.

If they had a back up plan right now, I would think it's disloyal, but only because of how much faith they've shown him.
Author:  kezza [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backup Coaching Plan - is it disloyal?
frank dardew wrote:
I heard Malthouse in 2012 if lmited success in the next couple -rumour not sure how strong

Imagine what Malthouse could do with our list!
Author:  BlueMark [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backup Coaching Plan - is it disloyal?
JohnM wrote:
Not disloyal. But insanely premature talk. Let the guy have 2010, and base his performance on the team's trajectory in the latter part of the season.


And enter stage right Synbad!!
:lol:
Author:  frank dardew [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backup Coaching Plan - is it disloyal?
Kezz not to sure about strength of it but I understand Swann /Malthouse connection very close
Author:  DocSherrin III [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backup Coaching Plan - is it disloyal?
frank dardew wrote:
Kezz not to sure about strength of it but I understand Swann /Malthouse connection very close


But Malthouse' manager and Swann not so close. Won't happen.
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