This is the reason Carlton started working with Leading Teams....
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| Author: | Benji [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Where we will fall this year... |
Ok so alot has been said this preseason about the blues mainly in terms of how badly we are goin to fall since we booted the waste of space out of the club.. Incredible to think that would be the case when only last year after we lost to St Kilda narrowly 3 St Kilda players (including there captain) and there coach all mentioned how they thought we were a top 4 side. We have the cattle to play finals where we will fall and have always fallen is on field leadership... Not a slur at Judd at all but after him how many genuine leaders can you name??? Simpson Scotland T-Bird Maybe? We have plenty have potential leaders... If we do anything do year you we see a development of 5 - 6 leaders hopefully more.. We played well last year in spite of Fev and if you go back and watch the games we played poorly and lost Fev was usually petulant. Culture takes time in an ideal world Judd would be Vice Captian but we just dont have anybody else.. This is where Brock could be instrumental touted as a future leader at Melbourne his best is very good... Who knows but its not the talent we lack its the mental toughness... Hopefully we can see that grow this year.. Fingers Crossed... Go Blues.. |
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| Author: | dane [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Where we will fall this year... |
I don't get it. |
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| Author: | Captain Dan [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Where we will fall this year... |
Only time will tell. Most of us are itching for the footy to start so we can at least get some solid answers about how we look this year. Hopefully with another year under the belt of Gibbs and Murphy, they can prepare themselves for further leadership, as Judd won't be around forever. I remember when Pagan put Gibbs straight into the leadership team as an 18/19 year old, and as you would expect, he was still getting used to the system and not ready for leadership. A few seasons on and he may be ready. Waite I think is a great leader or could be a great leader. He has the experience, has shown leadership on the field when he's stood up in the backline and kicked goals for us up forward. Just looks right for a leadership job for mine. |
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| Author: | isdonis.george [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Where we will fall this year... |
Leaders will quickly emerge now the elephant has left the room. |
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| Author: | Dominator_7 [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Where we will fall this year... |
This is the reason Carlton started working with Leading Teams....
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| Author: | bluegirl72 [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Where we will fall this year... |
What's Dumbo got to do with all this? |
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| Author: | jim [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Where we will fall this year... |
Benji wrote: Ok so alot has been said this preseason about the blues mainly in terms of how badly we are goin to fall since we booted the waste of space out of the club.. Incredible to think that would be the case when only last year after we lost to St Kilda narrowly 3 St Kilda players (including there captain) and there coach all mentioned how they thought we were a top 4 side. We have the cattle to play finals where we will fall and have always fallen is on field leadership... Not a slur at Judd at all but after him how many genuine leaders can you name??? Simpson Scotland T-Bird Maybe? We have plenty have potential leaders... If we do anything do year you we see a development of 5 - 6 leaders hopefully more.. We played well last year in spite of Fev and if you go back and watch the games we played poorly and lost Fev was usually petulant. Culture takes time in an ideal world Judd would be Vice Captian but we just dont have anybody else.. This is where Brock could be instrumental touted as a future leader at Melbourne his best is very good... Who knows but its not the talent we lack its the mental toughness... Hopefully we can see that grow this year.. Fingers Crossed... Go Blues.. That "waste of space" has kicked 190 goals the last 2 years and been a beacon in bad times. He might not sound such a "waste of space" if we struggle to kick goals and win games while he kicks a heap for Brisbane. Culture doesn't seem so good if you're not winning games of football. Winning games of football is everything. Watch this forum change tune if we don't. I'm not too hard as he is one of our great players. I don't forget. Anyway, you do make some good points and hopefully we're matured a little more being a young side. Hopefully we've made the right decision trading Fev. Time will tell and over a few years, not one. |
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| Author: | Donstuie [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Where we will fall this year... |
Dominator_7 wrote: This is the reason Carlton started working with Leading Teams.... So let's all let the experts handle it. |
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| Author: | Conundrum [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Where we will fall this year... |
isdonis.george wrote: Leaders will quickly emerge now the elephant has left the room. To blame Fev for our lack of leadership culture is unfair and oversimplistic. He was one of many cultural problems at the club and the whole leadership group over the past decade has to take responsibility. I cant help but think we have over the past 7-8 years with the mass retirement of our stars, raised a group of orphans. In my opinion if we had a strong leadership group the likes of Russell Walker woud not have taken so long to develop and who knows we may have retained quality young recruits like Karl Norman, had we the on and off field leaders to nurture and guide them. It is from the next generation, the Kreuzers, Murphy's and Gibbs that we will repair the damage and develop a strong culture. If we have to rely on Scotland and Thornton we are kidding ourselves. Seniority does not give you entitlement to a leadership role. |
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| Author: | Setanta for Pres [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Where we will fall this year... |
Well Said Jim. Lest we forget. Will only have to glance at the honor boards at the club - I don't think he's been kicked out from there yet!!! |
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| Author: | Rexy [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Where we will fall this year... |
Conundrum wrote: isdonis.george wrote: Leaders will quickly emerge now the elephant has left the room. To blame Fev for our lack of leadership culture is unfair and oversimplistic. He was one of many cultural problems at the club and the whole leadership group over the past decade has to take responsibility. I cant help but think we have over the past 7-8 years with the mass retirement of our stars, raised a group of orphans. In my opinion if we had a strong leadership group the likes of Russell Walker woud not have taken so long to develop and who knows we may have retained quality young recruits like Karl Norman, had we the on and off field leaders to nurture and guide them. It is from the next generation, the Kreuzers, Murphy's and Gibbs that we will repair the damage and develop a strong culture. If we have to rely on Scotland and Thornton we are kidding ourselves. Seniority does not give you entitlement to a leadership role. It could be argued that seniority did indeed give you entitlement to a leadership role during the last decade. Not to single out Stevo, but his comments in the press around the time when he was recovering from his neck issues about the party culture and drinking sessions really irked me when thinking about the young recruits we were drafting to try and rebuild our elite stocks. Thank goodness JR, Murph and Gibbsy and Kreuzer have their heads screwed on and prepare themselves professionally. |
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| Author: | bluegirl72 [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Where we will fall this year... |
Donstuie wrote: Dominator_7 wrote: This is the reason Carlton started working with Leading Teams.... So let's all let the experts handle it. An elephant handler? Do they cost much? |
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| Author: | Donstuie [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Where we will fall this year... |
Conundrum wrote: isdonis.george wrote: Leaders will quickly emerge now the elephant has left the room. To blame Fev for our lack of leadership culture is unfair and oversimplistic. He was one of many cultural problems at the club and the whole leadership group over the past decade has to take responsibility. I cant help but think we have over the past 7-8 years with the mass retirement of our stars, raised a group of orphans. In my opinion if we had a strong leadership group the likes of Russell Walker woud not have taken so long to develop and who knows we may have retained quality young recruits like Karl Norman, had we the on and off field leaders to nurture and guide them. It is from the next generation, the Kreuzers, Murphy's and Gibbs that we will repair the damage and develop a strong culture. If we have to rely on Scotland and Thornton we are kidding ourselves. Seniority does not give you entitlement to a leadership role. Agree for the most part, and this is the reason why getting Judd was imperative. In pretty quick time all our champs were retiring, then right when it was time to bring forth the new breed, the salary cap hammer comes down (not to mention Hamill), forcing us to fill the gaps with also-rans from other clubs to get some semblance of a team on the park. Smorgon and Malouf are much-maligned here, but I cannot imagine how hard it must've been to juggle our off-field financial dramas with trying to actually put a football team together. No way can you breed a decent culture there, and no doubt Fev (as our only shining light) felt that from that point on, he was the man. Had Fev been part of a stronger club things may have been different. Angwin had to be dealt with and there was nothing that could be done, but as for Norman (and to a lesser extent Houlihan, Walker and Betts) we didn't have the infrastructure nor the courage to nip those problems in the butt because these guys were considered too important to risk disenchanting. A stronger club financially would've made things a lot easier in the culture stakes. As for player development, it's no surprise that rookies here took longer to develop than those at clubs like Collingwood, Sydney or Adelaide, where players come in and seem ready-made for the grade. These clubs were all strong financially while we still had coaches sitting in dilapidated offices on different sides of the oval, and invested in player development. This is an area we're only now paying any attention to, but we still have some catching up to do (Yarran is a good example). Yes, Fev should've been bitch-slapped far earlier and our leadership for most of his tenure here was sub-par to say the least (an always injured and at-times seemingly disinterested Kouta, and then Whitnall as captain FFS). Having said that, you can't say Fev didnt contribute to our woes in a MASSIVE way. Yes, we had leadership problems, but Fev saw himself as a leader too and I wouldn't be surprised if missing out on (vice) captaincy pissed him off in a big way. As the big-dick on campus for so long it was hard for most people and events at the the club NOT to revolve around him, which is as big an indictment on the club as it is Fev himself. But I see it as a combination of negligence in the past, as well as simply not having the resources to keep it all together. |
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| Author: | blue4 [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Where we will fall this year... |
Setanta for Pres wrote: Well Said Jim. Lest we forget. Will only have to glance at the honor boards at the club - I don't think he's been kicked out from there yet!!! He's never going to scrubbed off the honour board - onfield his is our best full forward ever. |
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| Author: | Conundrum [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Where we will fall this year... |
Agree for the most part, and this is the reason why getting Judd was imperative. In pretty quick time all our champs were retiring, then right when it was time to bring forth the new breed, the salary cap hammer comes down (not to mention Hamill), forcing us to fill the gaps with also-rans from other clubs to get some semblance of a team on the park. Smorgon and Malouf are much-maligned here, but I cannot imagine how hard it must've been to juggle our off-field financial dramas with trying to actually put a football team together. No way can you breed a decent culture there, and no doubt Fev (as our only shining light) felt that from that point on, he was the man. Had Fev been part of a stronger club things may have been different. Angwin had to be dealt with and there was nothing that could be done, but as for Norman (and to a lesser extent Houlihan, Walker and Betts) we didn't have the infrastructure nor the courage to nip those problems in the butt because these guys were considered too important to risk disenchanting. A stronger club financially would've made things a lot easier in the culture stakes. As for player development, it's no surprise that rookies here took longer to develop than those at clubs like Collingwood, Sydney or Adelaide, where players come in and seem ready-made for the grade. These clubs were all strong financially while we still had coaches sitting in dilapidated offices on different sides of the oval, and invested in player development. This is an area we're only now paying any attention to, but we still have some catching up to do (Yarran is a good example). Yes, Fev should've been bitch-slapped far earlier and our leadership for most of his tenure here was sub-par to say the least (an always injured and at-times seemingly disinterested Kouta, and then Whitnall as captain FFS). Having said that, you can't say Fev didnt contribute to our woes in a MASSIVE way. Yes, we had leadership problems, but Fev saw himself as a leader too and I wouldn't be surprised if missing out on (vice) captaincy pissed him off in a big way. As the big-dick on campus for so long it was hard for most people and events at the the club NOT to revolve around him, which is as big an indictment on the club as it is Fev himself. But I see it as a combination of negligence in the past, as well as simply not having the resources to keep it all together.[/quote] We lacked leadership across all segments from president down to the captains. Kouta is an great exqample of a champion players not making an effective leader. Once again I do not absolve Fev from his deeds, but at another club with stronger leadership (both on firld and administration), they would have more effectively managed him and his ego. I hope we do err on the side of picking more senior older players to form our leadership group. Some of our youngsters may still be developing their leadership skills but at least they have potential. Time for radical change. |
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| Author: | kingkerna [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Where we will fall this year... |
blue4 wrote: Setanta for Pres wrote: Well Said Jim. Lest we forget. Will only have to glance at the honor boards at the club - I don't think he's been kicked out from there yet!!! He's never going to scrubbed off the honour board - onfield his is our best full forward ever. Based on what, |
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| Author: | Nextgeneration [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Where we will fall this year... |
Lest we forget? I'll tell you something I won't forget, that Fev was a selfish, undisciplined, at times bad tempered simpleton who cost us games as well as winning us them. It is his fault and his fault alone that he is no longer at this club. The fact that his departure has probably set us back at least one year in terms of on field performance is something he should be ashamed of - instead he waffles on about how our supporters are feral and how he wished he'd made the move to Brisbane sooner. (I know he apologised later but as usual it was talk first and think later). At least with serial pest number one gone we may see a few genuine leaders who actually care about the club emerge to support Judd, Carrots and Simpson. Ratten has already singled out Jamison in this area and with the continued development of the likes of Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuz we may find that on field leadership actually becomes a strength. I really believe this is a probability and that we now have an environment which will encourage the younger players to stand up and have a say rather than stifling them. They have the perfect opportunity in the first three rounds to show they have what it takes. Lets hope they do. |
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| Author: | mcnulty [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Where we will fall this year... |
Yep, shoulda made fev (vice)captain so the young blokes could look upfield and see him sooking at the umpire with the ball in play a metre behind his back... |
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| Author: | Setanta for Pres [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Where we will fall this year... |
Never saw Fev as undisciplined and selfish (acknowledge I may be alone here). I believe he had always been the shining light during dark development years at the club. The reason he is no longer at the club is because he was made bigger than the game, not by himself but by the media. He was always an easy target and would easily slip his foot into his mouth at every opportunity. He was however pure entertainment on the ground, making things happen when a lesser footballer would have been lost. I saw him on the ground, always the first to congratulate and applaud a team-mates goal. I saw the team lift when his heroics were displayed. You might tell me to get over it, that Fev's gone and aint coming back. I can't wait for the Blues to hit the ground running this year and I think we'll do a lot better than the so called experts have predicted. Just hate all the crap written about a guy I think gave more bang for his buck than any other over recent years. |
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| Author: | mcnulty [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Where we will fall this year... |
Yep, agree. Just not leadership stuff is all... |
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