There has been numerous jibes made at the "Off-field" team at our club.

I assume that this term covers those who are in the coaching panel, rather than the "stinky Fish" and the admin/recruitment guys.

So I thought I would try and nail this down a bit more, and discuss the 'Off - Field" in greater detail and how we at carlton have a dirth of qualified and capable team members.

If this is in another thread please feel free to move it there.

We have discussed Ratts in detail so lets leave him out of this one.

Firstly there is the development coaches Darren and Harves, there were huge wraps on Darren over in WA so he had runs on the board before coming to CFC, and of course Harvs fresh out of the game and although a Saints man, an AFL legend so these 2 I think represent a solid foundation for our younger players (nearly all the side) to learn what is required from an AFL player.

Riley has a great understanding of the game and could quite easily in Bailey's position if CFC hadnt have brought him across. He has developed excellent rapport with the players and has given plenty of insightful interviews and represent the club well when he speaks publicly.

Our full time ruck coach Mat Capuano gets mentioned positively anytime the young rucks are interviewed or discussed, so from the look of things he seems to be respected and has certainly brought improvement out of Jacobs/Hammer.

We also have Bradley/Lappin and Diesel, any and every Afl team has at some point put past players on the panel and I would certanly susgest that both Braddles and Diesel would be sought after commodities at other clubs because of their standing in the game and the particular skill set that each of them possess. So of the 3 Lappin may not have been an immediate choice, although again he has certainly got some runs on the board as a long standing player and club representative.

So my question is why if this is the "off Field' are we deemed to have such a motley and unqualified group to coach/mentor our team and what do other teams have that we lack?

Because we lost a pre-season Mickey Mouse Cup match.

The reality is you need to give coaching panels time, just as you do with individual players. Ratten has only had 2 and a bit years in the top job.

The risk with giving a coach time, of course, is the playing group can under achieve if not coached to their optimum. Therefore, the truth is we won't know for certain if Ratten and his gang can coach for another year or two I guess. That should be the point where the planets align insofar as playing talent being at their prime and the coaching staff having the time to develop said playing talent.

I can understand why there is criticism of Ratten. At times our club appears to be poor at things that other clubs seem to have less problems with – kick ins being the obvious example here. I do believe that this is in part due to the simple fact we do struggle at kick ins, but also in part because we (as a collective) focus on every minute detail of what Carlton does as compared to other clubs. That is, we live and breathe the cock ups of Carlton, but pay no more than a cursory glance to the mistakes of other teams.

On a basic level Ratten has got the team improving if you look purely at win/loss ratios, but I accept this year will be the first true test of his abilities. I fully support the trade of Fevola, but in 2010 we will learn a lot more about Brett Ratten than we will about our playing list.

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One of the biggest reasons we struggle at kick-ins is that we are not blessed with a plethora of attacking defenders and the ones we do have are not the most reliable kicks. My question for the learned football scholars of TC is thus: Is it easier to teach a defensive minded player to be more attacking and creative, or easier to teach poor kicks to be better kicks?

Apologies for the threadjack.

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STURDYISM!!

The point you make re: the microscope on our mistakes rather than the similarities that occur in other teams throughout games is a great one. For example Goodes has stated prior to the game that he was in his best shape for many years with no real injury concerns to derail his preseason, yet for a dual brownlow medallist his night was very poor, and contributed very little to the swannies especially as a full time forward. His game was probably poorer than Hendo's in terms of providing a focal point, yet our detractors are convinced Hendo is miles off .

I also understand the doubts around Ratts, even if I dont share them but what of the assistants? Have we really got the mix terribly wrong, or is it just another angle to push agendas and create slogans around?

LOL stop distorting the facts



Pretty sure Harris was sacked by WCE.

I think a lot of it is that there are far too many "experts" being critical of the coaching staff.

People aren't willing to give a relatively new coach the chance and patience to achieve success at their own rate. If you look at Alistair Clarkson, how ordinary did the Hawks look in 2004 and 2005? They finished bottom four both years. They started to pick up in 2006, missing the eight but still being quite a competitive outfit. Then in 2007 they made the finals, with 13 wins and 9 losses.

In 2008, well it speaks for itself of the success they achieved. Time and patience with a new coach, who, from memory, had his head on the chopping block a few years earlier.

Now, let's have a look at how this relates to us. In 2007 when Ratten took over, we finished bottom four...similar to the Hawks in 04/05. In 2008 we won 10 games, missed the eight, but were competitive a hell of a lot more, again similar to Hawthorn circa 2006. Then just last year, 2009, we made the finals, winning 13 games just like the Hawks did in 07. The only difference here is, they won their final by a kick, and we lost our final by a kick.

History is littered with coaches who were under the pump to keep their job, with the club delivering success a few years later. Take for example Mark Thompson in 2006. Cats fans were screaming for his head. Little did they realise the spoils that were yet to come...

In my book, so far Ratten has achieved passing grades. When he took over in 2007, his impact was almost immediate- remember getting smashed each week until round 17? We actually became quite competitive in the space of a week. That was the first step. Then in 2008, he took us to 10 wins and some supporters were even talking about a possible return to September that year. Again, another step forward. We made the finals in 2009 and improved by another three wins. The improvement is evident.

It has been an incredibly long wait for Carlton supporters, and they are starting to become restless.

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"GIBBS."

Not really..





Oooops....I've stuffed the rest of your post up by accident Nick....sorry about that.

Oh come on Mrs Caz, "mutual termination" is as close as you're gonna get to a sacking in a public game such as this.

The same "mutual termination" that befell Kevin Sheedy and Terry Wallace

And first time I've seen my post since posting, 3 out of the 4 sentences are gone, is that what you meant or I stuffed up in posting?

Doesn't matter though

yep...sorry again.

And as for mutual termination...sure...but if you sack someone you don't have them hang around for the rest of the season. So it wasn't the image you tried to portray, that's all I was saying.

You might be right Nick, but Harris came well credentialled, I dont think he was sacked I think he had done most of his work in the Wafl prior to moving over.

As for Braddles/Diesel being sought after, maybe they have knocked back 5 offers each, who knows? How many teams have knocked back John Longmire for their coaching role and yet he is still held in the highest regard at the swannies?

Diesel is not on the Coaching panel

You forgot Brett Montgomery

http://www.carltonfc.com.au/newsarticle ... fault.aspx

Bomber Riley won best Assistant Coach in 09

http://www.carltonfc.com.au/2010%20coac ... fault.aspx

Regards Cazzesman

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Cheers Cazzesman,

Thanks for clearing that up, does Diesel have anything to do with skills training/development? I seem to remember he was doing work with the club as recently as last year. Is that no longer the case or am I way off?

I bet Mr Cazz is glad he didn't waste his time doing the Draft Q&A after last years draft. He needed to put every other spare minute answering and clearing all the other misconceptions.

How many of our coaches have been assistancts at top clubs?
How many have coached under (Sheedy, Malthouse, Roos)?
You don't put together a group of people who haven't been that successful and expect them to lead you to success.
Lets see how well we go this year. I have my doubts

I dont know Michael Jizz, how many premierships have Sheedy and Malthouse won in the past decade?
As far as I know, the answer is none. Why would they be seen as some sort of benchmark?

Yesterdays men with yesterdays ideas. Even their own clubs have realised that.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Well said.

What is the damn obsession with Sheedy, Malthouse and Roos???